Question: Starting a drone photography company

[dysan911]

So the fact you need a FAA Airman Cert is likely going to discourage a lot of people who would want to pursue this exemption legally. My understanding is the course material, classes, instructor time is valued upwards of $5k and also 15 hours of actual flight time with a certified instructor.

 

[Oso]

So the fact you need a FAA Airman Cert is likely going to discourage a lot of people who would want to pursue this exemption legally. My understanding is the course material, classes, instructor time is valued upwards of $5k and also 15 hours of actual flight time with a certified instructor.

Here is what the FAA says. It notes that a US driver's license is okay. The FAA Airmen Cert is not mandatory, just one of the accepted items. At least that is how I understand their text here.

By law, the FAA cannot authorize an aircraft operation in the National Airspace without a certificated pilot in command of the aircraft (Title 49 of United States Code § 44711). Exemptions granted in accordance with Section 333 carry the following requirement regarding the pilot in command (PIC) of the aircraft:

Under this grant of exemption, a PIC must hold either an airline transport, commercial, private, recreational, or sport pilot certificate. The PIC must also hold a current FAA airman medical certificate or a valid U.S. driver's license issued by a state, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, a territory, a possession, or the Federal government. The PIC must also meet the flight review requirements specified in 14 CFR § 61.56 in an aircraft in which the PIC is rated on his or her pilot certificate.

 

[ianwood]

Pilot's license AND driver's license / medical certificate.

 

[Meta4]

Here is what the FAA says. It notes that a US driver's license is okay. The FAA Airmen Cert is not mandatory, just one of the accepted items. At least that is how I understand their text here.

You need to read that again. It clearly doesn't say what you think it does.

the FAA cannot authorize an aircraft operation in the National Airspace without a certificated pilot in command of the aircraft
a PIC MUST HOLD either an airline transport, commercial, private, recreational, or sport pilot certificate
The PIC must ALSO hold a current FAA airman medical certificate or a valid U.S. driver's license​

 

[BigAl07]

Plain and simple...

A Pilot Certificate (sport or higher) IS required for the PIC
3rd Class Medical Certificate (if you are a Private Pilot or higher you will have this if you're current) or a state issued Driver's License if you are only Sport or Rec pilot (no 3rd class medical required for those two).


If you are working for hire, compensation or the furtherance of a business in any way you will need your Section 333 Exemption. It's super easy to get but takes longer than forever to get right now. Also you'll have to register your aircraft ($10) and acquire N# for the aircraft. Both easy peasy to do.

You may want to have your Aviation Attorney re-visit the current stance of the FAA over non-333 commercial flights as they have officially started citing companies for this action. I think most are falling under the "Safety" umbrella but you can bet your bottom dollar if you show up on their radar they will find unsafe actions on your part. It's so much easier to go ahead and operate within the current regulations and be ahead of the game when the new ones come down 2016/2017. You don't want your business to appear to be a "renegade" do you? Also note that many clients now "require" Section 333 Exemption status and a min of Liability Insurance to even allow you to bid on a job. They may or may not understand what the Section 333 really is but they are covering their a$$ets and you can't argue with their requirements.

 

[Oso]

The FAA Airmen Cert is not mandatory, just one of the accepted items. At least that is how I understand their text here.

You need to read that again. It clearly doesn't say what you think it does.

the FAA cannot authorize an aircraft operation in the National Airspace without a certificated pilot in command of the aircraft
a PIC MUST HOLD either an airline transport, commercial, private, recreational, or sport pilot certificate
The PIC must ALSO hold a current FAA airman medical certificate or a valid U.S. driver's license​

Thanks for clarifying @Meta4. I assumed when they said a medical cert OR a valid driver's license that they in fact meant OR. I guess I should never assume that a government agency means what they print. My bad there.

That's why people get confused and think they can interpret things however they choose. To me it looks like they say the PIC needs either an FAA Airmen cert or a driver's license. The FAA should just change the OR to AND if that is actually what they mean as you suggest.

 

[Milo223]

Interestingly enough I have read a few exemption requests that are requesting relief from the pilots license. See snc-lavalin request. It will be interesting to see the FAA response. I've applied for the 333 but I'm hesitant to get a pilots license when I'm unsure if it will be grandfathered in under the upcoming rules release. I'd hate to spend the money on sports pilot license then need to be recertified for uav piloting at an equivalent cost.

 

[BigAl07]

They will not get Exemption from the PL requirement but you can "Request" exemption from anything you like. They'll just send it back with a "Not Happening" letter.

I completely agree it's a huge bug to swallow spending a min of $5K just to get started knowing that you probably won't need it come 2016/2017. It just depends on how bad you want to fly commercially right now and how much legal risk you're willing to accept.

 

[dysan911]

This might be for the guy that started this thread but let me just say I wanted to do the very same. Start an aerial photography business. I have (but it's fading into HAD) every intention of getting the FAA Exemption. I just wanted to test the waters first and see if there might be a market in my area for a small start-up aerial photography business. So, I went gung-ho on it and registered a domain name, printed up business cards, designed a flyer, invested in things that I felt would help my business. I started mailing my flyer/business card to real estate agents. About a 100 were mailed out. Out of the 100 flyers I got exactly "0" calls. My website has a quick quote capability that can email me should anyone visit the site and that got me exactly "0" business.

So yeah I was quite surprised that not even 1 person out of a 100 would be interested. I checked some of the local Real Estate listings and what methods the Agents use to list homes and when it comes to Aerial views they all seem to use that FUGLY Google Maps. I don't know if they just don't see a need or value in Drone Aerial shots or not. I have several examples I posted on my site that they could see would look 100x better. Maybe they just haven't bothered to look. I do have someone who is a Real Estate Agent that I plan to talk to next week so I can ask these kinds of questions. .

I gotta tell ya though I'm no longer gung-ho about running out and investing $5k into a pilots license just to get "0" more clients.

Something for the OP to think about.

 

[BigAl07]

dysan911
I just sent you a PM I think you'll appreciate but I wanted to make another note here...

When I send out an email to the Realtors in the area I generally only get about 6 replies to the email out of around 250 (249 to be exact) but I start getting phone calls and request emails in about 2 weeks.

Also make sure your website is heavily optimized. It can make all the difference in the world in terms of getting clients. Remember your website is your sales force working 24/7 for you. Make sure it's working at it's best and you will be glad you did.

 

[bbfpv]

This might be for the guy that started this thread but let me just say I wanted to do the very same. Start an aerial photography business. I have (but it's fading into HAD) every intention of getting the FAA Exemption. I just wanted to test the waters first and see if there might be a market in my area for a small start-up aerial photography business. So, I went gung-ho on it and registered a domain name, printed up business cards, designed a flyer, invested in things that I felt would help my business. I started mailing my flyer/business card to real estate agents. About a 100 were mailed out. Out of the 100 flyers I got exactly "0" calls. My website has a quick quote capability that can email me should anyone visit the site and that got me exactly "0" business.

So yeah I was quite surprised that not even 1 person out of a 100 would be interested. I checked some of the local Real Estate listings and what methods the Agents use to list homes and when it comes to Aerial views they all seem to use that FUGLY Google Maps. I don't know if they just don't see a need or value in Drone Aerial shots or not. I have several examples I posted on my site that they could see would look 100x better. Maybe they just haven't bothered to look. I do have someone who is a Real Estate Agent that I plan to talk to next week so I can ask these kinds of questions. .

I gotta tell ya though I'm no longer gung-ho about running out and investing $5k into a pilots license just to get "0" more clients.

Something for the OP to think about.

The agents that will be interested are the ones who use aerial photographers for high end houses/summer homes. They pay the photographers quite handsomely for the shots, all you'd have to do is do it for half the cost. I spoke to a couple agents where I live and they were very interested. Sadly, I'm still young with a mortgage and babies so I have no hope of pursuing it to its potential. Anyway, I recommend you start there.

 

[dysan911]

Good idea. I may look for some of these homes and contact the agent and see if they might be interested in a better shot.

 

[BigAl07]

Another option (might be harder to find this information) would be to contact the photographers that the agents use. They are very picky and are usually only a couple they use. The largest Realty firm here has only 3 photographers on their referral list. Get in good with one of them, impress them with your work and you could look at lots of future business.

 

[sawdog]

I ran my own company for years and if I would have given up after a few hundred fliers...

Anyway I know it seems like you did a lot of work but you might want to think in terms of doing that level of marketing at a minimum every day. AND follow up with a phone call because you quickly learn that passively sitting on your a$$ waiting for the phone to ring has generated 0 calls for every biz thats tried it.

And yes if you are thinking in terms of a realtor who can grab a screen grab off google for free in less time than it takes me to write this note then you are marketing the wrong people. There are people who will want this of course but its going to be limited to higher end firms. I would get in good with a good photo company and see if you can market with them. Or what services they may be interested in providing their customers.

 

[Oso]

Interestingly enough I have read a few exemption requests that are requesting relief from the pilots license. See snc-lavalin request. It will be interesting to see the FAA response. I've applied for the 333 but I'm hesitant to get a pilots license when I'm unsure if it will be grandfathered in under the upcoming rules release. I'd hate to spend the money on sports pilot license then need to be recertified for uav piloting at an equivalent cost.

Where do you see in the SNC-Lavalin request that they are asking for relief from the pilot's license? Am I just missing it?

 

[Meta4]

Where do you see in the SNC-Lavalin request that they are asking for relief from the pilot's license? Am I just missing it?

Right up front ...
REGULATIONS FROM WHICH THE EXEMPTION IS REQUESTED
• 14 C.F.R. 61.113 (a) & (b)
Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command
Pursuant to 14 CFR 61.113 (a) & (b), no person who holds a private pilot certificate may
act as a pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for
compensation or hire. SLCI may achieve an equivalent level of safety as achieved by
current Regulations because the applicant's SUAS does not carry any pilots or
passengers nor property. The risks attendant to the operation of UAS is far less than the
risk levels inherent in the commercial activities outlined in 14 CFR 61.

 

[Oso]

Right up front ...
REGULATIONS FROM WHICH THE EXEMPTION IS REQUESTED
• 14 C.F.R. 61.113 (a) & (b)

Thanks sir. I did see that earlier, but I thought they are asking for something else pertaining to carrying a payload (passengers or property). It seems like every 333 exemption for a small drone should have this request.

14 C.F.R. §61.113 (a) & (b): Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command Pursuant to 14 CFR 61.113 (a) & (b), no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire.
SLCI may achieve an equivalent level of safety as achieved by current Regulations because the applicant's SUAS does not carry any pilots or passengers nor property. The risks attendant to the operation of UAS is far less than the risk levels inherent in the commercial activities outlined in 14 CFR 61.

 

[Meta4]

Thanks sir. I did see that earlier, but I thought they are asking for something else pertaining to carrying a payload (passengers or property). It seems like every 333 exemption for a small drone should have this request.

14 C.F.R. §61.113 (a) & (b): Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command Pursuant to 14 CFR 61.113 (a) & (b), no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire.
SLCI may achieve an equivalent level of safety as achieved by current Regulations because the applicant's SUAS does not carry any pilots or passengers nor property. The risks attendant to the operation of UAS is far less than the risk levels inherent in the commercial activities outlined in 14 CFR 61.

You could ask for it but the FAA has made their opinion on it pretty clear.

 

[Oso]

You could ask for it but the FAA has made their opinion on it pretty clear.

Agreed. The FAA's has made that requirement very clear. Not sure why you are stating so here, but I think we all agree with you this time.

I still dont think that this particular request is asking for relief from having a pilot.

 

[mjw]

Yes. You need a minimum of a recreational or sport pilot license. It's only ridiculous because the FAA is dragging their feet on finalizing the rules for SUAS. Once those rules are out, a pilot license will still be required, but people will only have to take a paper test to obtain it. And, the 333 exemption won't be necessary for most people.

How do you know only a paper test will be required?