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Question about manual mode

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision Discussion' started by disjecta, Jan 19, 2014.

  1. disjecta

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    I assume if I was to fly the P2V in manual mode, there is no front, back and sides? What I mean is if I want to turn left and the camera is turned towards me, it will go left. Unlike in GPS mode where if the camera is facing me and I move left on the remote control, it actually moves right.

    Also, what happens when you let go of the remote in manual, does the Phantom fall to the ground? With no GPS coordinates, I assume so...

    Not ready for manual but just curious.
     
  2. Nvr2fst

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    You are talking about IOC not manual.
    IOC in a nutshell locks on to where you were when you took off. So it will do all of the confusing math and gray matter work to always make your forward stick away from you and left is always your left and so on, regardless of the way it is facing.
     
  3. iResq

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    If you let go of left stick you get 50% of throttle. I'm not sure if that's enough to maintain flight. Going manual means no help from gyros. That makes flight extremely difficult.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
     
  4. gunslinger

    gunslinger Moderator
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    In manual mode, you're actually sticks on flying the P2V. If the Phantom is nose in (camera facing you) and you push the stick left, it's going to turn right. (from your perspective) If you let go of the sticks in manual mode it's going to retain whichever level of throttle equates to the center position, as that stick is spring loaded to center. I'm assuming it would retain approximately 50% throttle. (Never having flown in manual mode, I'm basically talking through my... )

    Keep in mind that when flying in manual mode you need to be constantly aware of the orientation of the aircraft. There is no automated algorithm to assist you in determining front from back, and GPS isn't going to stop and hover at the current altitude when you unhand the sticks... Manual mode requires a great deal of practice and without that can result in re-ordering a new one... :shock:

    -slinger
     
  5. Nvr2fst

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    Moved down.
     
  6. jadebox

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    Only the Course Lock and Home Lock modes ignore the orientation of the 'copter. In manual mode, moving right stick to the right will cause the vehicle to go to its right (assuming that it isn't upside down ;) ).

    In Manual Mode the right stick to the right doesn't tell the vehicle to go in a specific direction as it does in the default Vision mode. In manual mode it directly controls the pitch of the helicopter. The software doesn't try to determine your intention, it just does what you tell it.

    -- Roger
     
  7. Nvr2fst

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    If you want my opinion, never use IOC. You will definitely be better off practicing flying towards yourself and figure eights. You can practice this with GPS mode, it makes it so simple to practice. If you start using IOC you can just end up learning bad habits for when you get better.

    Just like playing the guitar. Its all muscle memory. So why throw in another mode to confuse you more in a panic situation.

    Say you are heading towards a tree pretty fast. You may not have time to think so what happens is, your muscle memory kicks in without you thinking about it.
    Now add in learning to fly in IOC. Now your brain is confused in a panic scenario. Am I in IOC or am I in Normal mode. You don't have time to truly think about it but if you learn one way, you have your muscle memory to do it for you.
    Muscle memory is a way of saying action without thinking or second nature.

    If you happen to play an instrument you know what I am talking about

    I started by flying RC helis and it was much harder to learn reverse orientation because we didn't have GPS to hold them still if we let go of the sticks. You would simply crash until you practiced enough.
    But with these Phantoms you can just let go of the sticks if you panic while in GPS and it will wait for you to get your marbles back. This is awesome for learning head in flying (towards yourself). With the helis you had to worry about Up Down Bank Left and Right and Spin all at one time. Gyros did give us a break on the spin for the most part. And then throw in the fact that every bit of that was reversed!

    Learning helis was stressfull until you finaly got it down, that is if you didn't give up because of impatience or cost for repairs.
    But these Phantoms are very easy. They should have never offered IOC because in my opinion it is a crutch. Kind of like The patch is for smokers. Either do it or don't.
     
  8. disjecta

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    Great responses. Thank you very much, what a great forum :)
     
  9. Visioneer

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    The validity in Nvr2fst's advice is in consistency ... whatever mode you choose to fly in, that is the mode you should (almost) always fly in. In personal panic mode, that's very likely the mode in which you'll respond. If you're in a mode you don't normally fly, you're probably not going to like the result.
     
  10. gunslinger

    gunslinger Moderator
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    I see where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree. I'm going to cross my own picket line here, though. I'm not a big fan of any aircraft that attempts to be all things to all people. I'm going to make an exception here, for this aircraft.

    In Phantom mode, it's obviously designed to allow the uninitiated access to a "flying camera." Incredibly easy to fly and to take snapshots and videos that don't necessarily need to pass muster on a professional basis.

    But... What a shame it would be to waste this awesome technology on the amateur flyer/photographer. And I mean this on a consumer basis as much as I do on a profit based corporate perspective.

    The initial out of the box configuration was obviously geared towards the new flyer/photographer. The addition of NaZaM mode, and IOC, pushed it towards experienced flyers and offered the ability to push the distance envelope and make it fairly simple to reel the P2V back in using either course lock or home lock. (home lock is obviously more clearly designed for this purpose.)

    I'm still incredibly confused regarding DJI's obvious lassitude towards offering a gimbal for the P2V. The fact that there are at least two competitive gimbals in the works to fill that void is no surprise to anyone. With DJI's history of offering their OWN gimbals for their multi rotors... This just doesn't make sense, to me...

    What also surprises me is how late to the party the DJI camera filter hardware is. This really doesn't seem like rocket science to me. Why couldn't they have designed this hardware in parallel and offer it soon after P2V introduction?

    My main concern on this whole platform is the strange timing on DJI's part regarding the release of the vision itself, the parts and pieces that are needed to repair broken Visions and the either lack of, or crappy timing of, hardware that will obviously be in demand for this platform. Are they going to move on to something else and leave this platform flopping around and relying on third party hardware and fixes?

    Now I'm hearing that there may be a new sub-version of the Vision that's not advertised as such. We've already seen new Visions with an entirely redesigned main battery pin configuration. What else is going on that we don't know about???

    Go figure...

    -slinger
     
  11. Nvr2fst

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    You and Visioneer have your valid points but.....yep I gotta butt. :D
    If you are going to learn it, why not learn it in its natural configuration. Anybody that sticks with it can and will learn how to fly it. It doesn't take long. In IOC the Phantom is doing a lot more calculations, more chance of failure? It has to constantly change its method of calculating its position relative to you AND its normal calculations with GPS and all.

    Do you play an instrument?
    If not, look to your favorite guitarist and remember what you see and hear does not tax his mind hardly at all. It is second nature from repeatedly doing it over and over and over.
    I play and once you hit this point of automation you get this realization of how the greats were able to do what sounded almost impossible at one time. I don't stand up to them but I have felt what it is to automatically do it.

    My point with the helis was, it would have been interesting to have IOC on them because they were so much harder to fly.
    These Phantoms are just so easy it isn't funny and I think IOC is over kill on easy steroids.

    Maybe it is just because of my heli experience I feel this way. Im not sure.
    Maybe deep down I feel it is just a cop out to reduce users competence down to zero when it really is so easy.

    A mind IS a terrible thing to waste. We have been wasting away generation after generation as things are done for us more and more.
     
  12. gunslinger

    gunslinger Moderator
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    Actually I've been playing guitar since I was nine years old and have a Strat and a Hoyer 12 string acoustic lying about. I'm also a 12 handicap golfer and thoroughly understand "muscle memory." I've also been a MENSA member for many years. So my mind hasn't necessarily been wasted...

    I can tell you without blinking that my experience in MY generation doesn't equate with your equation. I was married at 19 years of age and I've built a very secure financial environment for myself, my wife, my son and my grandkids. All this from a start of living in a motel with just enough money to pay for the upcoming birth of my son and making coffee from instant with the hot water coming out of the left spigot. Nobody has done **** to help me attain that, other than my wife and my family...

    I don't do handouts.

    -slinger
     
  13. Nvr2fst

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    Not sure where all of that came from but Ok.
     
  14. gunslinger

    gunslinger Moderator
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    WHAT??? You brought up guitar playing... YOU brought up "A mind is a terrible thing to waste". And now you're using your usual condescending attitude to negate whatever I've said in response. I KNOW my capabilities but I don't spray them about to make others seem incapable... You should try that technique. I wish I could buy you for what you're worth and sell you for what you think you're worth. I could easily retire and enjoy my hobbies without having to deal with elitist flamers...

    -slinger
     
  15. gunslinger

    gunslinger Moderator
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    And you know what??? You've FINALLY made my FOE list. Life is MUCH to short to have to deal with contentious flaming narcissistic individuals as yourself. YOUR ideology isn't necessarily THE ABSOLUTE CORRECT ideology. I know that Pull_UP has cut you a tremendous amount of slack for the purpose of keeping peace.

    I am cutting you absolutely NO slack, since you cut NO ONE ELSE any slack at all...

    -slinger
     
  16. Nvr2fst

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    Wow, you are a loose cannon. You just 180ed a fine conversation. My mind is truly blown by your insecurity in thinking I said one word against you.
    Trust me when I tell you, you need some help. I am not saying that as an insult but you really do.
    I have noticed some strange things in your posts but I have overlooked them in the past.
    For being a MENSA member you would think you would be a little more rational.
    I will avoid you in the future.




    I guess he flies in IOC mode.....
     
  17. LeoS

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    @Nvr2fast: He has some valid points. You have a confrontational and condescending attitude on many of your posts; and you seem to pretty often post too quick before thinking (then tries to edit\delete them afterward). Why don't you take a step back, read up more before replying? It'll do you good.

    @OP\thread: I think there's merit for IOC here, because 'camera quads' are pretty different than the rc helis or rc planes before them. These things are getting smaller and smaller (while still maintaining ability to fly long range), and they're super stable that they can perfectly hover in place.. and coupled with being used as camera, there's a higher chance of us losing track of the craft's orientation when they're further away.

    ps: I personally don't use IOC, although I may use IOC Home Lock to try bring the craft back if I ever lose sight\FPV signal of it in the future *knocks on wood*. But so far, I've not used it yet.
     
  18. gunslinger

    gunslinger Moderator
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    LOL... that is SO funny. Since you ARE a troll.. C'mon... laugh along with me... admit it... It's pretty ironic, really
     
  19. gunslinger

    gunslinger Moderator
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    Nvr2fst makes an excellent point here. Your post is inflammatory and you have the workings of a troll.[/quote]



    LOL... that is SO funny. Since you ARE a troll.. C'mon... laugh along with me... admit it... It's pretty ironic, really[/quote]

    I'm not a troll. I have a legitimate concern with inexperienced pilots using "manual" mode on a flying weed whacker that can really cause harm to someone. I'm been cut on the hand by my electric RC planes, a stupid mistake and I've still got a scar 2 years later. It would be terrible if an innocent pedestrian or bystander or God forbid a child got injured. These things are dangerous. There is NO reason whatsoever to fly them on manual mode.[/quote]

    Yeah... uh huh... okay... <koff>
     
  20. LeoS

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    @<nickname of person I was replying to>