Proof cops lied about GWB Drone flight!

[Mark_D]

Jesus ****** Christ.. with some of you on here no matter what the govt or police do you slap them around, calling them bigots, racist & immoral. If you have such a flippin ***** for them then get it the heck over with.
I agree that they are not always right, but seriously.. they screw up your day or something so you always have to say they are wrong?

I'm really getting the feeling this whole flippin forum is for anti govt anti police screw-ups who want to blame the bad weather/the moon not rising at 830 tonite/anything wrong in the world on the govt/cops, just so you have something to complain about in your pitiful little lives.

Mods, do me the kindness to ban me, put me out of my flippin misery, many of you here have put me beyond disgusted.

And the award for biggest overreaction to a thread goes to!..... :roll:

Whilst I agree that there are occasionally comments on here which are out of line or misinformed. I don't think you can accuse the forum population as a whole of being anything other than intelligent and responsible people who are concerned that their hobby is under threat by the occasional reckless flyer and sensationalist media reports.

 

[gunslinger]

Jesus ****** Christ.. with some of you on here no matter what the govt or police do you slap them around, calling them bigots, racist & immoral. If you have such a flippin ***** for them then get it the heck over with.
I agree that they are not always right, but seriously.. they screw up your day or something so you always have to say they are wrong?

I'm really getting the feeling this whole flippin forum is for anti govt anti police screw-ups who want to blame the bad weather/the moon not rising at 830 tonite/anything wrong in the world on the govt/cops, just so you have something to complain about in your pitiful little lives.

Mods, do me the kindness to ban me, put me out of my flippin misery, many of you here have put me beyond disgusted.

No. You're absolutely right. We should just sit tight and shut up when police officers make outlandish and obviously misleading statements to the press about our hobby. Yup...

-slinger

 

[QYV]

Mods, do me the kindness to ban me, put me out of my flippin misery, many of you here have put me beyond disgusted.

+1 ? :twisted: heh

 

[CarlJ]

Oh come on! You may not like the tone of the post, but I see everyone attacking the poster, and not what he's said. The reason you're not attacking what he said is because there's an element of truth to it. There is an anti-establishment sentiment around here with more than a few members.

Now I can agree to disagree, but let's own up to who we are...

 

[ianwood]

The cops are doing their job. There is no conspiracy to fabricate allegations. Why would they risk their jobs to make a trivial bust? And read the transcript. They see something in or near controlled airspace moving in an unusual way, it is their job to report it and investigate it. In fact, any pilot in the air would be expected to report the unusual activity. This isn't rural Ohio. It's NYC. What happens in the air in NYC can effect a lot of people very quickly.

BTW, the title of this thread is entirely misleading. No one lied or intended to do so.

 

[dragonash]

The cops are doing their job. There is no conspiracy to fabricate allegations. Why would they risk their jobs to make a trivial bust? And read the transcript. They see something in or near controlled airspace moving in an unusual way, it is their job to report it and investigate it. In fact, any pilot in the air would be expected to report the unusual activity. This isn't rural Ohio. It's NYC. What happens in the air in NYC can effect a lot of people very quickly.

I'm not talking conspiracy or anti cop (someone even threw in a racial comment earlier)things, but what *I* in particular am irked about is the fact that the initial report had the operators of the Phantom in the wrong and made it as though they were chasing the police chopper and flying over the bridge. The cops didnt even know what to charge the operators with and still have no real proof about the phantoms actual height and location. However, that whole news report is based on false information provided by said cops.

But no one really ever reads the follow up reports - mainly because its not juicy enough for the stations to report on. The only real satisfaction we will get is IF those 2 guys sue and win, there might be a brief segment on the news that no one will care about. They will only remember the negative about the "2 people who flew at a police chopper."

 

[ianwood]

I'm not talking conspiracy or anti cop (someone even threw in a racial comment earlier)things, but what *I* in particular am irked about is the fact that the initial report had the operators of the Phantom in the wrong and made it as though they were chasing the police chopper and flying over the bridge. The cops didnt even know what to charge the operators with and still have no real proof about the phantoms actual height. However, that whole news report is based on false information provided by said cops.

But no one really ever reads the follow up reports - mainly because its not juicy enough for the stations to report on. The only real satisfaction we will get is IF those 2 guys sue and win, there might be a brief segment on the news that no one will care about. They will only remember the negative about the "2 people who flew at a police chopper."

Your issue is with the media, not the cops.

 

[dragonash]

I'm not talking conspiracy or anti cop (someone even threw in a racial comment earlier)things, but what *I* in particular am irked about is the fact that the initial report had the operators of the Phantom in the wrong and made it as though they were chasing the police chopper and flying over the bridge. The cops didnt even know what to charge the operators with and still have no real proof about the phantoms actual height. However, that whole news report is based on false information provided by said cops.

But no one really ever reads the follow up reports - mainly because its not juicy enough for the stations to report on. The only real satisfaction we will get is IF those 2 guys sue and win, there might be a brief segment on the news that no one will care about. They will only remember the negative about the "2 people who flew at a police chopper."

Your issue is with the media, not the cops.

no ian, my issue is with the cops as well. If you want ratio's, I would say 70 -30 media to cops.
But seriously, the cops started the whole thing and also reported false claims. And with incorrect information, they arrested 2 men and trumped up a charge because they didnt know what to charge them with.

Dont forget, the NYPD said the operators flew the drone dangerously close to the chopper when in fact, it was the other way around

The media are just asshats as usual.

 

[ianwood]

I am going to disagree. I don't think the cops ever alleged the Phantom went after them. As for the charges, in my opinion, if they were anywhere above 400ft, they may deserve a misdemeanor charge of reckless endangerment. I think it is pretty safe to say they were higher than that. It's stupid to fly that high in a high traffic area. Very stupid.

I am not saying the cops were squeaky clean. They were clearly disoriented about the position and action of the Phantom and yet they gave pursuit. They contributed to the dangerous situation.

We should make one thing abundantly clear about helicopters and Phantoms:

If a helicopter suddenly appears, you need to get your Phantom right the hell out of the way. It is your job to avoid the helicopter at all costs (including ditching). Even if they are totally in the wrong, you are talking about the difference between human lives and a lump of plastic.

And if you're going to fly in or near a built-up area in anything other than broad daylight, you need high-visibility strobes. I have blindingly bright LED strobes on my Phantom to make sure it is as visible as possible:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxI4auJnIwQ[/youtube]

 

[dragonash]

We should make one thing abundantly clear about helicopters and Phantoms:

If a helicopter suddenly appears, you need to get your Phantom right the hell out of the way. It is your job to avoid the helicopter at all costs (even if it means ditching). Even if they are totally in the wrong, you are talking about the difference between human lives and a lump of plastic.

If anything comes of this latest event, it should be this up above.

 

[QYV]

Oh come on! You may not like the tone of the post, but I see everyone attacking the poster, and not what he's said. The reason you're not attacking what he said is because there's an element of truth to it. There is an anti-establishment sentiment around here with more than a few members.

Now I can agree to disagree, but let's own up to who we are...

I was actually trying to just make a small joke and not foster this thread becoming... well, basically what it's become now. If anyone gets all bitchy and says "please ban me" I support them being taken at their word.

My issue IS with law enforcement when they act the way they're acting with the situation that started this thread (the GWB drone duo). The police claim of "reckless endangerment" with wild, physically impossible feats such as the Phantom climbing 2000 feet in seconds, or moving towards their helicopter in an aggressive manner (when multiple sources have shown otherwise) are so typical of their ignorance and fabricating things to justify/press charges.

ianwood I totally respect you and your knowledge around here but I respectfully disagree with your recent post. The drones were NOT in controlled airspace look up the East River Exclusion Zone, which they were in if they were at the GWB which they say they weren't anyway and they did NOT have FPV which lends credibility to their claims that they were at low altitude with line of sight, backed up by many eyewitnesses. The police pilots made errors about the size, altitude, and movement of the Phantoms (probably due to nighttime conditions previously covered in this thread) and instead of just dropping it and going somewhere else to go after real criminals (you can't tell me there was no other serious crime going on in NYC at that time that could have used police helicopter assistance) they chased the Phantoms, stuck around and directed yet more (ground) cops who could have been going after real criminals and pressed charges against the 2 drone guys... and it is the chopper pilots pressing the charge.

We have to remember this entire situation is about one thing: the police helicopter pilots claiming that the drone pilots operated while "evincing wanton and reckless conduct towards unspecified persons by reason of a depraved indifference to human life in general." That sound like a couple guys buzzing their Phantom around their neighborhood?

sorryimnotsorry but this situation reeks of police "I own this airspace and I'm going to bully you out of it" (when of course they don't) and I have no problem standing up for my and others' rights... especially in this situation because it could have easily been me flying my Phantom around the city. for the record I stick to parks and rivers mostly and pretty much never fly over streets or sidewalks... folks around here who know me know I'm one of the first to jump on people who fly irresponsibly, especially over crowds and people.

it isn't directly related, but everyone in the US should read this article and act before we get our hobby regulated out of legality.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregory...t-regarding-faa-rules-that-may-limit-flights/ because if this **** goes through and they DO redefine RC/hobby aircraft and make all sorts of exceptions for quads (making them illegal when other RC hobby aircraft are not) then the flights themselves DO become illegal and I will absolutely, begrudgingly stfu and comply with the law.

 

[CarlJ]

I only have one question. Were the pilots of the quad above 400 feet at any time?

I think you can see where this is headed...

 

[ianwood]

It's a high traffic area. The Phantom was at least 1,000ft up. Flying that high in a high traffic area is just stupid. At night, even more stupid. No high-visibility strobes. Simply irresponsible. So, yes it is worthy of at least a misdemeanor charge for reckless endangerment (you referenced felony terms).

And with regard to who owns the airspace, let's be clear, you don't. You're the new guy and no one quite knows how to deal with you yet. And your life isn't at stake if something goes wrong. I will repeat it in case anyone should choose to debate it:

If a helicopter suddenly appears, you need to get your Phantom right the hell out of the way.

That did not happen here.

 

[poostik]

Posting in here so it shows up in my "View your posts" feed.

 

[gunslinger]

We should make one thing abundantly clear about helicopters and Phantoms:

If a helicopter suddenly appears, you need to get your Phantom right the hell out of the way. It is your job to avoid the helicopter at all costs (even if it means ditching). Even if they are totally in the wrong, you are talking about the difference between human lives and a lump of plastic.

If anything comes of this latest event, it should be this up above.

+1

 

[CarlJ]

It's a high traffic area. The Phantom was at least 1,000ft up. Flying that high in a high traffic area is just stupid. At night, even more stupid. No high-visibility strobes. Simply irresponsible. So, yes it is worthy of at least a misdemeanor charge for reckless endangerment (you referenced felony terms).

And with regard to who owns the airspace, let's be clear, you don't. You're the new guy and no one quite knows how to deal with you yet. And your life isn't at stake if something goes wrong. I will repeat it in case anyone should choose to debate it:

If a helicopter suddenly appears, you need to get your Phantom right the hell out of the way.

That did not happen here.

Yeah Ian, you reached checkmate a few posts back, but the Klingons are having a hard time letting go.

 

[dragonash]

It's a high traffic area. The Phantom was at least 1,000ft up. Flying that high in a high traffic area is just stupid. At night, even more stupid. No high-visibility strobes. Simply irresponsible. So, yes it is worthy of at least a misdemeanor charge for reckless endangerment (you referenced felony terms).

And with regard to who owns the airspace, let's be clear, you don't. You're the new guy and no one quite knows how to deal with you yet. And your life isn't at stake if something goes wrong. I will repeat it in case anyone should choose to debate it:

If a helicopter suddenly appears, you need to get your Phantom right the hell out of the way.

That did not happen here.

Yeah Ian, you reached checkmate a few posts back, but the Klingons are having a hard time letting go.

I'm sorry Carl, but under what authority do you have to conclude what constitutes a checkmate?
Opinions do not have a valid "checkmate"

They are like assholes, everyones got one!
And I think QYV made a very well stated point. And your only reply is that he is a Klingon... awesome bro. Awesome.

And in an area where there is arguably no laws (or lack thereof), there is no checkmate.
There is no proof that they went above 400ft, at least not yet.

I'm sure we will see who was "right" in a couple of weeks or months when we see some sort of report about a lawsuit.

I'm actually surprised the police dont have a camera on their chopper. I thought they normally had those things for chases and stuff. I know they have those bright search lights.

 

[BMEWS]

They will likely have quite detailed flight recorders on the aircraft and the ATC will also have quite detailed recordings too (if they keep them). The Phantom is still visible to Radar even given it's size and likely speed of operation. However, software tends to filter out these types of objects given as they can produce "false positives". They'd also pick up flocks of birds too which can just tend to confuse the situation.

There are anomalies within the statements of the officers and unless the guys flying the Phantom had some sort of recording which could be used as evidence, their statements will be as much hearsay as those of the police.

Best result all round would be to just sit around a table and apologise to each other. (and that's just my opinion)

Bmews

 

[QYV]

It's a high traffic area. The Phantom was at least 1,000ft up. Flying that high in a high traffic area is just stupid. At night, even more stupid. No high-visibility strobes. Simply irresponsible. So, yes it is worthy of at least a misdemeanor charge for reckless endangerment (you referenced felony terms).

And with regard to who owns the airspace, let's be clear, you don't. You're the new guy and no one quite knows how to deal with you yet. And your life isn't at stake if something goes wrong. I will repeat it in case anyone should choose to debate it:

If a helicopter suddenly appears, you need to get your Phantom right the hell out of the way.

That did not happen here.

how do you know these things? neither of us was there but according to both the 2 guys and tons of eyewitnesses they were never even remotely that high, which I tend to believe since they didn't have FPV... I've had my Phantom up to 650 feet (200m) with no FPV and it was a speck I could barely make out, much less fly around. scores of eyewitnesses have said these guys were just buzzing around at 70-100ft above their street showing off having fun... a tiny speck 2000ft up doesn't really fall in line with that. Even if they were only 1000ft up guess what? that's the ceiling of the east river exclusion zone even if they were up that high which I don't think they were, below 1000ft is unregulated, at least according to this:

at best right now it's a he-said they-said since the only video released so far clearly shows the phantom under 100ft, but we don't know what occurred prior to that. What we DO know is the cops are on record making mistakes about the size of the drone and it's speed as they approached. If you are mistaken about a craft's size and speed naturally you're going to be mistaken about it's height.

I can't believe that you of all people are making this mistake about the crime... the ONLY CHARGE against them has nothing to do with where the drone was or it's height... the chopper pilots say they felt like the drones were being flown aggressively and in such close proximity to their helicopter that they almost collided (never mind the fact that the helicopter encroached their airspace not the other way around) which again dozens of eyewitness reports contradict plus it's already been proven that they mistook both the size and speed of the device. Do you also believe their claim that it went from ground to 2000 feet in 2 seconds? because you have to if you believe the police side of the story at all. I feel like as a Phantom beta tester you know what it's flight capabilities are fairly well.

when "the helicopter suddenly showed up" they got the hell out of it's way exactly like they should have according to them and plenty of eyewitnesses.

 

[QYV]

They will likely have quite detailed flight recorders on the aircraft and the ATC will also have quite detailed recordings too (if they keep them).

have you checked out the link in the original post of this thread? that's sort of what this is all about...