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Problem with the Plus' cameras ....

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision + Discussion' started by Flyer91, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. Flyer91

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    I'm not real happy with my Plus camera's reactions to different light conditions.
    Not only does it do some weird, indecisive and rapid exposure compensation flickering as it sees 'slightly' different light conditions, there is also a patch of significant focus 'and' color shift as it follows it's own shadow across the ground, which is especially noticeable when pointing straight down, and is absolutely horrible.
    This is most pronounced on vegetation ...... like brush, trees and grass for some reason.

    It's evidently having problems making a decision on what exposure to use when it follows a dark object moving across the image (I.E. it's own shadow) which causes that area of the image to go out of focus and shift color/tint.
    Curiously this does not seem to happen when it moves across a dark area in the frame .... only when it's following something dark moving against a light background.
    Although YouTube seems to amplify this effect, I also see it when playing the viddys on my PC and TV off the SD card.
    I tried different exposure settings, with little change to this effect.

    So ... I started to look at different peoples' Plus viddys on Vimeo and YouTube.
    'All' the viddys have the same rapid/flickering light exposure changes as the frame goes through even just 'slightly' different light conditions, but to different degrees with different cameras, under similar light situations.

    They all also have the same patch of area that goes in and out of focus and changes color/tint, that follows the dark shadow of the Plus when it moves across a light background .... with the degree of that being both different between ..... say ..... light dirt, pavement or concrete and green brush/trees/grass ...... with it showing up more against vegetation.
    And this effect is (once again) significantly different amongst the different viddys with similar content, under similar light changing conditions.

    Here is a viddy of my Plus showing both the change of focus/color that follows the Plus' shadow (upper right in the frame) as it moves across vegetation, and the rapid flickering from mildly changing light to dark backgrounds of the sky, towards the end of the viddy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=h8rJ4dbhpv8

    When looking look at other people's Plus viddys on YouTube/Vimeo the same thing happens in similar conditions, albeit to slightly different degrees.

    I'm going to mess with the camera settings, as it does make a 'bit' of a difference when gong from things like 'center' to 'average' exposure, as did going from 'auto' to '60Hz' anti-flicker.
     
  2. rilot

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    OK, looks like there are 2 separate things going on here.

    The colour weirdness and perceived focus issue around the shadow of the craft are compression artifacts due to the low bitrate of the camera and to a lesser extent the opposition effect.
    The overall quick switches in colour across the scene are the caused by the camera's auto white balance getting confused and switching between different profiles.

    I agree, it looks crap.
     
  3. Flyer91

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    I have no doubt that you guys have hit the nailon the head, and that's exactly what's happening.
    It's just 'appears' that the degree of it happening in different cameras, under the same/similar conditions ... is dramatically different depending on the "luck of the draw" that you get with your particular camera.

    I had 3 P2V's that had nowhere this same degree of these effects, however much of it may have been masked by the poor single axis gimbal on the P2V. (????)

    I need to look at GoPro viddys and see if they are doing the same thing .... to 'consistently' the same degree.
    If not ..... then this one is probably going back, and I'll go to the P2 with the new 3 axis Zenmuse.
    Really would prefer the Plus, but this is just really not tolerable for my purpose.

    P.S. I will also try different white balance setings (good hint!!) and see if that helps to a tolerabe degree ...... once it stops raining.

    Thanks!
     
  4. mtpisgah

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  5. CMACD

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    The GoPro is a much better video platform to the Vision Plus for sure. Bitrate, resolution, flexibility to which the vision camera cannot match. But the all-in-one package of the vision plus is so handy. It makes me wonder if careful planning of the scene being video'd would allow for only one white balance at a time. You could also be diligent to keep the drone out of the shot, and slow panning would lessen the compression issue considerably. Just my 2 cents. I have taken this all into account and choose to purchase the V+ in the next week or so anyway. If video quality were the most high importance to me it would be GoPro hands down.
     
  6. rilot

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    I have to agree with CMACD. The Vision+ looks to be a great hobbyist platform for people who just want to go out and shoot something and then stick it on Youtube or Facebook to show their mates. It's an all-in-one package that's easy to fly and takes great video straight out of the box. In many cases the video quality is good enough for most peoples' needs.

    The P2+Zen+GPH3+ package is for people who like to fiddle and who want the best quality footage from such a small platform.

    Saying that you can get the weird colour changes across a scene with a GoPro if it's set to auto WB. On RAW WB and Protune you will see no such issues but the footage straight out of the camera will look washed out and flat. The thing is, you can apply the colouring and exposure compensation in post and really make the videos pop.
     
  7. tizzl10

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    I noticed the same thing with mine, flyer.
     
  8. Flyer91

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    Yeah .... I think there's a bit of "the luck of the draw" in how much a person might have with their particular Plus' camera, but it sounds like the responses that are being posted here are offering some good reasons that explain it ..... 'and' very useful directions on how to help mitigate it.

    Good stuff!! :)
     
  9. tebowner

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    i am too having the same concerns. This sucks

    my vids are crap

    My P2V that i just sold had that shake but took way better videos
     
  10. CMACD

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    Interesting. I would have thought that the shake would have made the compression artifacts much worse. I wonder if the gimbal is now allowing you to see the imaging issues that were there all along with the P2V?
     
  11. Flyer91

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    Yes ... I 'think' that the new gimbal may very well be allowing these particular issues to show up more readily.
    Although all 3 of my P2V's single axis gimbals may have helped to mask it, the new 3 axis gimbal also allows the camera to point straight down ... and that seems to make the opposition effect much worse.

    So far the different hints I've received on the forums are:

    - don't use auto white balance. Set it to cloudy or sunny depending.
    - set your ISO to 100 (don't use automatic) if you fly in a bright day, or 400 if it's darker (end of day for example). ISO 400 is really noisy... Mine is set to 200. I can live with the amount of noise.
    - use average metering instead of spot or center.
    - and do some post processing to help.
     
  12. tebowner

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    I just flew but didnt see your suggestions until now

    here are my main concerns compared to the PV2 i had :

    >> color - seems like everything is darker on the Plus cam - my edges are light - almost like as i fly the middle stays dark
    >> clarity - seems like things being filmed look "crisscrossed"which kind of reverberates and is flashy - i am not a film person so excuse my terms
    >> jello - i am getting major jello - i will try some damper techniques etc to fix this but i havent been able to fly without this
    >> glare - when i did water shots before, the water was a nice blue but with PV2+ water seem dark with major sun glare

    one positive - i did get to 2000 feet with video - all stock
     
  13. tebowner

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    i did the suggestions and seems to be better

    will test more

    - don't use auto white balance. Set it to cloudy or sunny depending.
    - set your ISO to 100 (don't use automatic) if you fly in a bright day, or 400 if it's darker (end of day for example). ISO 400 is really noisy... Mine is set to 200. I can live with the amount of noise.
    - use average metering instead of spot or center

    Question - Average Metering - where is this setting and what does this mean? I looked this up - not sure which image to choose? #7 Exposure Metering in the Manual... is it the image to the right?
     
  14. skyhighdiver

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    [quote="tebowner#7 Exposure Metering in the Manual... is it the image to the right?[/quote]

    it is the ( ) with no dot
    if in doubt right click on a photo you have taken and read the properties and it tells you what setting your on
     
  15. tebowner

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    I went out today with my Plus

    I dont care what anyone says ... my PV2 took clearer and better overall video MINUS the shake

    I dont have the PV2 anymore so I cannot test them next to each other. but here are the differences i see

    >> objects seems to have a crosshaired almost - objects just are not clear
    >> jumpy - seems to jump or hesitate in presenting the frames - not when moving slowly
    >> colors - not as bright in the main middle and to bright near the fish eyes edges

    I would love to see someone test this :

    PV2+ vs. PV2 with Rotorpixel gimbal
    Same video shot at same time! then we would see
     
  16. tebowner

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    >> I tried the Black dampers - bad jello
    >> I tried the gray dampers - bad jello

    i hate this thing :)

    going back to white... f this

    cant even return anything... and I think the video sucks... very noisy and "flashy"
     
  17. pyrophantom

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    Hmm im actually quite impressed with the vids from my plus compared to my P2V........ :D
     
  18. ShoreBird

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    I always kind laugh when I see these threads. Sounds like a lot of butt-hurt to me being that the Phantom is more a hobbies rig than a pro camera. I see a lot of people doing amazing things with stock 1300 dollar phantom but if you were looking for pro grade videos and picture maybe you should have looked into a pro grade rig. I have both a Vision and a V+ I use them for what they are...
     
  19. abacus01

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    Ok i want to add to this thread. My second video look at 25 seconds in and 42-50 seconds ind. mine exhibits horrible jittering. The masts on the boats are as if someone is pulling on them and letting go and the video like yours seems tto hoccup at spots. I agree depending on the conditions the camera has issues. This was not a windy day by the way.curious what others think is the problem.

    http://youtu.be/pVFbZ2IfGfM
     
  20. Mori55

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    Try balancing your props. That's the first you do. Just because they're new doesn't mean anything.