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Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement Help

Discussion in 'News' started by Wind_Shear, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. Wind_Shear

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    If you read the PDF the FAA sent to (apparently) all police agencies in the US, it basically tells them that while they aren't advising police to arrest anyone for flying per se, they do say "UAS operations may also violate state and local laws specific to UAS operations, as well as broadly applicable laws such as assault, criminal trespass, or injury to persons or property."

    That reads to me as an endorsement for the cops to hit "reckless operators" with charges that have nothing to do with flying in order to "deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations." :evil:


    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-0 ... ement.html
     
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  2. SteveMann

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    Tar Baby.
     
  3. LuvMyTJ

    LuvMyTJ ADMINISTRATOR
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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    Whatcha trying to say there Steve? :geek:


    Anyways, not sure how these plans will work when there are rights for all photographers in the USA. Check this link... http://www.phantompilots.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32890

    Know your rights, like this important info -
     
  4. SteveMann

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    Google "Tar Baby".
     
  5. SteveMann

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    What part of "Collect Evidence" don't you understand?
     
  6. LuvMyTJ

    LuvMyTJ ADMINISTRATOR
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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    While it meant exactly what I thought it meant as I am old (images of Uncle Remus come to mind), apparently is also has a slightly different meaning today, but still seems like it could be taken as a derogatory term.

    Here is a PDF version of the Photographers Rights you can print out and carry with you - http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf
     
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  7. LuvMyTJ

    LuvMyTJ ADMINISTRATOR
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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    They cannot legally take it if you are not breaking laws. Will that prevent them from taking it? Probably not as many do what they want and let the courts hash it out later but legally they cannot take it. Personally I am not sure that LEO's are going to spend much time enforcing something they have no real enforcement rules to govern them. I'm sure they don't want to hold the FCC's hand on this one.
     
  8. SteveMann

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    Tar Baby simply means that the more you touch it, the worse you make the situation.

    The FAA asking for LLEO "assistance" has nothing to do with photography or photographers rights. It gives the local Barney's the permission to assume that any drone flight is illegal and they will confiscate your drone and hold you awaiting further instructions from the FAA.
     
  9. SteveMann

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    LOL :lol:
    When has that ever stopped the LLEO's? Stopping suspects and collecting evidence is what they do! They don't need to think, they just let the courts sort out if it was illegal.
     
  10. LuvMyTJ

    LuvMyTJ ADMINISTRATOR
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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    If you read my post I said exactly that, and the camera attached to the bottom makes your photographers rights relevant.
     
  11. SteveMann

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    Your photographers rights are relevant, but the LLEO will still confiscate all of your gear just on the suspicion that you are in violation of something, because the FAA said so.
     
  12. LuvMyTJ

    LuvMyTJ ADMINISTRATOR
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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    I agree with that. Why not confiscate it since that is easier than having to think and then let someone else figure out the mess later i.e.;courts. Any way you slice it the municipalities end up getting richer and you end up poorer.

    Just for the record, I do believe there are good police officers putting their life on the line every day, even more so lately. It is unfortunate that there are some who would choose the easy way instead of the right way.
     
  13. rexster314

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    As a retired County LEO, my thoughts are that I had too much other stuff to worry about. If I saw someone flying a "drone" I would think "cool" and continue on my way. Only if I got a complaint from a citizen would I even consider investigating a droner. And I wouldn't be too concerned with contacting FAA during the investigation if it wasn't being operated within the area of an airport
     
  14. capodrone81

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    So will you stop flying?
     
  15. Meta4

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    C'mon Steve ... read it yourself. I've read it 4 times now and still can't find anything in there suggesting anything relating to photos taken with a drone, nothing about SD cards etc. Nix, nil, nada, zilch. There's nothing at all in the document.
    If LEOs want to put their own meaning in when they read between the lines like you did, that's another matter but the original document does not Encourage Cops to Confiscate Drone, SD Cards.

    Here is the relevant section of the document.
    Identifying and preserving any public or private security systems that may provide photographic or other visual evidence of UAS operations, including video or still picture security systems can provide essential evidence to the FAA. Many times these systems do not permanently store information but erase it as the system recycles at a given interval. Local law enforcement is in the best position to inquire and make initial requests to identify and preserve this form of evidence or obtain legal process for securing this evidence in the context of an investigation of a possible violation of state criminal law. In addition, some UAS may be marked with identification numbers (“N-numbers”) signifying FAA registration. The presence or lack of these identification numbers may be significant in an FAA investigation. For example, an operator may state that he or she is conducting an approved commercial activity, which usually requires registered aircraft. However, the absence of registration markings on the UAS may indicate that the aircraft is not registered, meaning the operation may not be authorized. Note that identification numbers may not be conspicuous from a distance because of the size and non-traditional configuration of some UAS. The registered owners of UAS bearing identification numbers can be found by searching for the N-number on the FAA’s website: www.faa.gov.
     
  16. LuvMyTJ

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    Just an FYI - no post have been deleted in this thread, I even checked before I opened my big mouth just to be sure. ;)

    While you are reading between the lines you are probably not that far off. Now take a breath and take a minute to look at this with a clear head. Hold back your negative comments. I suspect the post you are referring to is the one right before your condescending post I quoted here.
     
  17. damoncooper

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    Regardless of interpretation at the local level, this is concerning and expect to see more sensationalism of these cases in the press. This feeds the beast.
     
  18. RCRookie

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    Re: Police Advised on Drone Rules as FAA Seeks Enforcement H

    Seeing as how the press is corrupt, and police will do as they like, regardless of what a law states or a drone pilot argues. You'll need deep pockets to win these battles.

    Good luck.
     
  19. jenzeee

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    I am a hobby pilot and had a very negative encounter with a Police Officer during the Indycar GP in Long Beach this weekend. I would like to know your opinion or advise.

    I was flying my P2 (incl. FPV with GoPro cam) on a parking close to the race track. No people were on the parking lot, only cars. I flew it for about 8-9 min, mostly between 20-40 ft but never higher than 60ft. I always took distance to the "race track", meaning I was operating the drone only over the parking area. The footage proves it.

    Well, after I landed my drone I got handcuffed and my drone incl. bag and all my equipment got confiscated. The officer told me I'll go to jail. Thus, I was kept in a police vehicle for almost an hour, before he then finally released me. I received a ticket with court order showing the following violations:

    • 14 C.F.R. 91.13: "Unsafe drone" (..that's what he wrote on the ticket)
    • FDC 43621: "Operate drone in violation of flight restriction". (..his text)

    Note: I received no document or proof that he confiscated my drone. Also, I was refused to take a picture of my drone and the inside of my bag anymore. He said it is evidence and maybe get it back after the court date, which will be in about 3 months.

    My questions:

    Is it lawful to confiscate my drone and bag (for this reason)?

    What did I do wrong?
    • 14 C.F.R. 91.13 (by FAA) actually stand for "careless and reckless operation". It states "no person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another." - I don't know where I had been careless or reckless to endanger the life or property of others. Theoretically, property damages can happen anywhere. Please correct me know if I am wrong.
    • FDC 43621 (attachment 1 of the FAA's “Law Enforcement Guidance for suspected unauthorized UAS operations”) is a NOTAM (Notice to Airman) about flight restrictions of "select sport events". In short: All aircraft operations are prohibited of "any stadium having a seating capacity of 30'000 or more people". This NOTAM also applies to Indy Car. - The Long Beach GP is for sure not a stadium (def.: a sports area with tiers of seats for spectators), it is an street circuit in a city. Anyways, no information available about the seating capacity.

    What advise would you give to me?


    Thanks for your feedback.
    -J.
     
    #19 jenzeee, Apr 21, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
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  20. DrJoe

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    When you go to court, bring the applicable rules/safety guidelines. I'd imagine most local courts have no authority to enforce FAA rules, that is a matter for the FAA. In short, you broke no laws that the local court has jurisdiction over.

    That said, get a lawyer.

    In addition, one of the simplest things others can do to prevent such an issue in the first place is to carry a copy of the FAA guidelines, join and carry an AMA membership card, and follow the guidelines!
     
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