Welcome to PhantomPilots.com

Sign up for a weekly email of the latest drone news & information

Phantom V1 or Phantom V2 (pros & cons)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jmm_jammy, Feb 2, 2014.

  1. Jmm_jammy

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    I sold my tbs discovery setup to get a Zenmuse gimbal platform, the Phantom seems my obvious choice.

    I am stuck though, the phantom 2 seems great, and I could pick one up for £624 brand new including Zenmuse.

    However...

    The phantom V1 seems slightly more appealing as I can buy new lipos for 15% of the price of a Phantom 2 lipo, and some people run a dual lipo setup for extended flight times. What happens in 2 years if DJI stop selling the phantom 2 lipos? Also.. I could pickup a phantom v1 on eBay and save around £50 too from total setup or get one upgraded for the same price.

    Realistically, with a zenmuse and gopro3 what flight time differences will there be between V1 and V2?


    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. DeweyAXD

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    818
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Oxfordshire, UK
    Or consider this as an option for P2 Benefits without being bolted to the P2 battery: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7017

    Its a debate that is really hard to decide on. Personally after creating my Phantom Hybrid (P1 in a P2 shell as per above) I fee it is a great compremise. Also as a person that owns lipos already take a look at a fictional case study I came up with here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... ostcount=2

    Food for thought esecially now you can get CAN-BUS on a Phantom 1 (with the upgrade board) or any Phantom v1.1.1
    :http://www.phantompilots.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7031&p=55652#p55652

    It is only a matter of time before someone cracks the block on the P2 battery but it is a worry. The P2 is a great starting point for new owners but while admittadley biased, the P1 upgrade route can save an existing owner a lot of outlay.
     
  3. Jmm_jammy

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks that is super helpful and thanks for sharing your video.
    I have a few questions from what I have seen in your video and link (excuse my ignorance):

    1 - If I purchased a Phantom V1 with pmu for zenmuse and I wanted mini iosd would it be necessary to do your can bus hack?

    2 - regarding the P2 shell, why would you want to fit a P2 lipo for £105 when you could buy decent 5000mah lipo to fit for £30?

    3 - is there a benefit of me ditching the pmu and fitting the upgrade board instead?

    Thanks again,
    James
     
  4. thongbong

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    11
    Something I'm surprised no one ever mentions when talking about getting a P1 vs P2 is the onboard electronics. I've been digging ALOT around the interweb and have found very few stories about flyaways with the Phantom 2. Most of the flyaway stories you will find are folks with the P1, which makes me think DJI found the bug, but will never admit it (for ovious reasons). Another reason is that you are getting an updated flight controller with better stability, better GPS position lock, better everything. Just don't consider the flight times, think about flyaways and better FC also. cheers!
     
  5. ladykate

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Bellevue, NE
    I have both airframes. Both are good but the P2 is better for me. Flight times are huge compared to the P1 and I have osd and FPV on the P2 (installed myself). The P2 is easy to do the basic setups on (meaning - you can hook up most things we want to hook up without cracking the shell open or soldering on the main board).

    Still - there isn't that much wrong with the P1 and you can, with effort, put all that stuff on the P1 - you just won't get the flight times. Doubling the batteries on the stock P1 doesn't seem to get much - the extra weight defeats much of the expected gain in flight time.

    In answer to the question about batteries becoming unobtanium - that probably isn't a concern. Should the smart batteries go away there will be a dozen solutions posted immediately. Hooking up a 'standard' 5500 ma lipo shouldn't be a big deal (but I haven't looked into it). There are already connectors available from dji. Indeed, the airframe is not impossible to hack and you could probably change out just about everything if you had to.
     
  6. Big Ben

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Lies, **** lies and statistics."

    There is a very good reason for that phrase. You have to be very VERY(!) careful when interpreting data.

    1. There are currently much more P1's than P2's flying around and the P1's have been flying much longer, and therefore have made much more flights, so this will skew the statistics causing more P1 flyaway stories than P2 flyaway stories circulating on the internet.

    2. A fair amount of P2's will have been bought by people who already have (flown) a P1. They now have more experience reducing all the flyaways caused by user error. They made the mistakes flying their P1 and won't do so again now they fly their P2.

    3. The current P1 versions now come with the same NAZA-M V2 that the P2 has. Of course DJI constantly improves their products. They would be stupid not to implement what they've learnt from their experiences in the new P1 series but only in the P2. It is in their interest too to make every Phantom they sell more reliable and safer.
     
  7. LeoS

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    1
    That's interesting, what made you leave the TBS discovery setup? I was thinking about the tbs discovery pro actually, since it seems to be quite powerful and the camera position makes for great front-viewing videos without propellers or landing gears in view :)

    As for modded P1 vs P2, the answer depends on how much you enjoy modding... if you like it (and have the time, tools and skills), then you'll probably get more enjoyment with modding the P1 platform. But if you're considering going the P1 route to safe a few bucks in battery cost, I'd suggest you reconsider your time's worth, all risks involved in it and the final difference will probably only cover a couple visit to starbucks.
     
  8. thongbong

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    11
    you must be a P1 owner :mrgreen:
     
  9. Jmm_jammy

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    The TBS fully loaded is a heavy quad, and its a hard machine to get perfectly setup due to its non square shape. The TBS pro looks fantastic in TBS videos, but in reality its far from jello free as they stated.

    I didn't use my TBS pro for fast flights near the end hence why i fitted a gimbal to it, but also fancied a change. The phantom is appealing as so many people have them more and more easy mods and parts will become available and i love the fact its a sealed unit so can be flown in a slight drizzle rather than panicking its going to short out mid-flight from a rain drop (rain.. a common thing in the UK).

    anyway, no one has answered my original question still....

    what is flight time with a P2 & zenmuse
    what is flight time with a P1 & zenmuse with 2 lipo
     
  10. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    4,910
    Likes Received:
    1,788
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    Another difference is the stock RX on the P2 is better. Statistical skewing aside, this may be another reason we've seen very few fly aways with the P2 so far.
     
  11. Big Ben

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not yet. :D My FC40 should arrive in two days. :p

    But my observations are purely rational. :ugeek:
     
  12. thongbong

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    11
    Welcome to the family!!! May your videos be many and flyaways be none! Honestly I've been an original owner since day 1 and have been following flyaway stories every week. But now I have a P2 and hope for best. :|

    But yes, the new P1's are better than the original P1's in many respects.
     
  13. ElGuano

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,219
    Likes Received:
    4
    Re: Phantom V1 or Phantom V2 (pros & cons)

    The P2 comes with a battery-locked "Phantom 2 Naza-M." Like the Lite, it has it's own locked boot loader and you can only use the P2 assistant to access it (with limited Naza functionality). I'm not aware that any P1 are shipping with anything other than a generic, transplantable Naza-M V2?
     
  14. LeoS

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks for saving my dough then! Back to modding Phantom it is...

    P2 w/ zenmuse is probably around 18-20 minutes (in normal usage, gentle flying; not hover-only).
    P1 w/ zenmuse and 2 lipo is tricky... I assume you're talking about normal OEM 2200s? I've read if you just do simple mods (not shedding weight, using simple Y-connectors, etc) it'll go from 6-8 minutes up to 9-12 minutes.

    Check out ElGuano's thread where he tried many different batteries on his heavily modded P1 (up to 2x2900 (well, 2700 maddogs but they behave as 2900s if I remember right). He broke the 30 minutes barrier with a bare P1.
     
  15. Curb

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've been a FC40 owner for 4 days and now looking into ordering a P2 for a delivery this Friday. Great thread - all the opinions and facts have really helped me decide ( didn't know the flight controller was different) I Was gonna stay away from propriety batteries after owning a TT Innovator - but I really want the extended flight times without modding - just hope they magically drop in price sometime.

    The FC40 for the £366 I paid for it is great though and I'll probably keep that as well quick blasts.
     
  16. Jmm_jammy

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    [/quote]

    P2 w/ zenmuse is probably around 18-20 minutes (in normal usage, gentle flying; not hover-only).
    P1 w/ zenmuse and 2 lipo is tricky... I assume you're talking about normal OEM 2200s? I've read if you just do simple mods (not shedding weight, using simple Y-connectors, etc) it'll go from 6-8 minutes up to 9-12 minutes.

    Check out ElGuano's thread where he tried many different batteries on his heavily modded P1 (up to 2x2900 (well, 2700 maddogs but they behave as 2900s if I remember right). He broke the 30 minutes barrier with a bare P1.[/quote]

    30min! I'm going to search for this thread, but was that with a zenmuse?
     
  17. OI Photography

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    5,542
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Clarksville, TN
    viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6851

    It was naked, but still an example of how careful weight budgeting and component selection can make a huge impact on your effective flight times.
     
  18. ElGuano

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,219
    Likes Received:
    4
    Phantom V1 or Phantom V2 (pros & cons)

    No, I don't think we can hit 30 minutes with either P1 or P2 with gopro + gimbal.

    I hit 30.5 to 31 minutes with a completely bare phantom, no camera, gimbal, FPS. I did it two separate ways, with 2700x2 and with 2200x4.

    Weight is everything when it comes to flight times. With a p1, some people running dual 2200 with zenmuse and FPS are getting 6-7 minutes. Some get 12-13 or more. It depends almost entirely on how much you optimize your weight. Using a heavier gimbal, I regularly get 15min with 4400mah and 18 min with 5400mah. I can get 3min more on each config if I have to push my batteries a bit (my personal best with gimbal + FPV is currently 21 minutes).

    If you really want guaranteed good flight times, I'd say just get the p2. It's a good value other than the expensive batteries, but you are guaranteed 15-17min flight times with a 1300g AUW using zenmuse + FPV, out of the box. If you want to tinker, the p1 currently has more potential.
     
  19. Jmm_jammy

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    the 2700x2 setup sounds good, 18min is more than good enough for me. Have you got a photo of how you modded your P1 to fit them?
    I'm becoming more tempted by the P2, but am i right in saying I can't change the rx or tx on that?
     
  20. ElGuano

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,219
    Likes Received:
    4
    Re: Phantom V1 or Phantom V2 (pros & cons)

    My phantom is pretty heavily modded, I've done just about everything under the sun that doesn't butcher the look of the phantom completely in order to achieve that (think tons of diagrams/planning, carving, dremeling, sanding, soldering, metering, crimping, gluing, testing). 18 minutes is probably on the longer end of what you can expect, and it'll take more than just widening the battery opening to hit that. If you're interested in going this route I have a list of mods on my rcgroups profile.

    The p2 can use 3rd party Rx/tx, and natively binds to futaba TXs. I think what people are talking about is the lack of support for PPM input mode, which rules out things like ezUHF?