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Phantom Lost - Crash - Found - Spektrum and Fatshark.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kenskid, Dec 4, 2013.

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  1. kenskid

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    First time flying with Fatshark going through my Gopro Hero 3. View was very good. However, wind was very strong aloft and did not realize it on the ground.

    I think at one point I was above some low clouds.

    I could not get the Phantom to come back my way. Had to go to Failsafe but Phantom struggled to return. Check the video to see the fun and almost "wet" results.

    http://youtu.be/1YwTf7z8f8M
     
  2. rmklaw

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    amazing.
     
  3. cptdarel

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    holy mole, if you were that far away, how did you retrieve it?
     
  4. Gizmo3000

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    man you're lucky!

    When I attempt FPV at night in font of my house, I make sure to only stay in GPS mode, throttle up hundred feet or so, and that's it.
    I suppose (in hindsight of course) the proper thing you could have done in your situation was to lower altitude, and use IOC to bring the craft towards you to regain orientation.
     
  5. kenskid

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    When I realized it was caught it high winds, at first went to home lock and pegged the stick. However, the wind was too strong. I then hit failsafe and as you can see, it was fighting to come back but could not beat the wind. That combo of steps likely enabled me to find the Phantom because as it was fighting, I got a glimpse through my goggles of "about" where it was.

    It took me about 15 minutes of driving and I decided to drive home on that road on the side of the canal - thats were I saw the Gopro red LED flashing!

    I'll post the recovery vid later.

     
  6. Peter Patricelli

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    Is there anyone else who looks at this and is seriously bothered by the very real safety concerns that are very likely to drive a serious lashback and regulatory blanket being thrown over this "sport"?

    1) I think you were into "airspace" for media helicopters, airplanes, etc.
    2) An actual airplane PILOT would have checked weather conditions and filed a flight plan before flight. Wind-wise...you got what you deserved.
    3) You were completely committed to a (test?) flight...at night...over a densely crowded urban area.
    4) What if your falling, out of control bird had fallen into the path of a car and caused a crash with serious damage to vehicle or people?

    One of the scary things about this "sport" is that it allows, for $500 (at least) people who are neither sensitized, trained, vetted, certified, insured, or otherwise able to pass a "horse sense' test...to start intruding, in a random and frequently out-of-control way, into VERY serious environments. The dumb dude who flew his bird out of his apartment in New York City...lost control...landed on the sidewalk (could have been worse)...got arrested...is a prime example.

    Sorry.....glad you got your bird back......but as a 68 year old guy who has spent his professional life trying to keep people healthy and safe (an MD), who thinks a LOT about the "what ifs" worse case scenarios....and has a great respect for Murphy's Law......I am not trying to beat your chops so much as start a general conversation about how WE....WE......should be talking on this forum as much about WHERE and WHEN and WHAT NOT TO DO....in terms of our choices of flying "missions" and "environments" as we talk about gear and set-ups and "how-to"s. Seeing your video...without comment....encourages others to do the same thing.

    I think before the coming regulatory blanket gets defined and thrown over us, WE need to demonstrate that there is a core of reasonable, responsible people who understand the concerns and dangers and are willing to self-police as much as possible, to carve out a safe, defensible niche environment for our sport.

    Just my $.02.
     
  7. kenskid

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    Your tips are noted....however....

    Dare I ask that should only those humans with a 5 mile or more buffer zone around their flying area be allowed to fly quads? My big mistake was flying into a bad wind as you noted by saying pilots would have checked weather conditions etc...

    I fly this quad up to 20 times a week in my area. I usually fly in big fields or out by the "lake". Even though these are fairly wide open areas to my eye, my Phantom could easily reach and crash onto homes, cars or people if it ever "got away". There is simply no space within 250 miles of my home that when flown, my Phantom could not crash into a populated area.

    The populated area you see on the video link in this thread are all around me. When I go to my normal "wide open" areas, I am still well within range of damaging property if my Phantom got away. I think its safe to say that a large percentage of quad flyers are in the same boat as I am.

    So what do you think "we" should do? Should we not fly until we determine how far the Phantom can fly on a full battery and then only fly that far away from a populated area? If that's the case, then all is solved. Very few would be spending money on quads that they can only fly when on vacation in the desert.

    I'm getting tired of the cliche', "if you keep that up, the FAA will crack down on all of us". I wish they would crack down and put up a set of regulations stating EXACTLY how far from populated areas we are allowed to fly. When they do crack down and throw the blanket, it isn't going to matter what the "core" users are doing responsibility wise. So if I'm reading you correctly, we should only fly in areas where there is ZERO chance of crashing into homes, cars or people OR we should at least stop posting our flights on youtube....and when the FAA sees how good we are being OR how bad we are being, they will make lighter or more restrictive flight rules for quad pilots? LOL....I think not.

    EDIT to add:

    You state: "people who are neither sensitized, trained, vetted, certified, insured, ..."

    I'm not sure of the solution, but I hope the FAA will not require training, vetting, certification and insurance in order to gain a license to fly a Phantom. If so, only MDs like yourself could afford to fly.

     
  8. Peter Patricelli

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    Thanks for taking my comments in the spirit of constructive discussion....which is how I meant them.

    First, there is "flying"....and then there is sending the bird up 600 feet or more...at night....in an urban area. The general accepted limit for all RC flying....which has been around for 4 decades or more....is, I believe, 400 feet. That is an all-world limit..to stay out of FAA airspace. In an urban environment...that is even more important. When more and more don't respect this....there WILL be massive legal ramifications.

    Staying lower within the legal RC airspace solves one problem. Staying Under 200 feet AND in LOS flying starts to define where and what you can do in an urban environment. We all agree, there is no such thing as ZERO risk, and ANY flying of a bird subject to uncontrolled fly-aways has inherent risk, but there is a difference between flying over and within a field/park.... staying OVER unpopulated ground risking a fly-away only as out-of-control....and sending the bird WAY up and out over an densely populated environment...where you can lose control for MANY other reasons other that a fly-away (your flight is a prime example) and it is going to come down uncontrollably.

    In town, I put her up over a field and stay there...over the field. I have had one sudden malfunction and had the bird suddenly drop....hitting the field. Things happen. Murphy's Law. You have to respect that.

    I don't think the FAA, or ANY judge is going to sympathize that you don't have any areas within 500 miles where you can really let her go and do the crazy fun things that these things are capable of. RC fixed wing flyers solved this problem years ago by banding into clubs, communally buying a rural field away from radio interference, and flying in a controlled fashion, by club rules, safely, INSURED, within their controlled environment.

    Training, vetting, licensing, insuring, all those things are or will be on the table as we move forward. All you have to do is read this forum for a month to realize how many people are simply going out and buying a bird, NOT reading the manual or anything else of importance, and just sending the thing UP...and then wondering why it crashed. It has nothing to do with my money...or lack thereof...or your money...or lack thereof. It has to do with public safety and common sense.

    I am NOT advocating governmental blanket control, although I see that coming and as inevitable. The RC plane flyers have been able to co-exist WITHOUT triggering that kind of control for 40 decades by SELF-POLICING and common problem solving and THAT is what I am advocating. The more we debate the issues and set our own rules...the less likely some agency will set them for us. I Guarantee you will have more freedom under a set of flying rules set by experienced RC multi-copter flyers.
     
  9. Davek

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    I really respect both opinions here but I think the advent of FPV has introduced a whole new issue. Flying rc planes - Helis has never been a problem with interfering with aircraft or people really. I think OSD would have help this situation and would never fly fpv without it.
     
  10. kenskid

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    I hear what you're saying but I have a feeling people are going to keep flying high, far and fast until there is a crackdown sort of like the Napster file sharing cases that were prosecuted over the last 10 years. A few huge fines pretty much took care of all the file sharers and resulted in a brand new industry.....Itunes Store....LOL!

     
  11. kenskid

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    Hey Doc,

    I though you might enjoy this one. http://youtu.be/g7TMNSbGOTM I was flying in one of my "unpopulated" areas buzzing two police SUVs when an unknown special needs dude jumped up and swatted my quad. No one knew him or that he was "special" but we did after that!

    On another note, about one minute earlier, there was a father and his two year old standing in the same spot that the quad strikes the ground! They were admiring the quad flying about 50 feet above and had just walked off the scene. Thank God!
     
  12. Peter Patricelli

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    Ken,
    Yeah, I would well believe a thousand feet from the look of the video.

    Here's another cheery thought. At that height you potentially may have shown up on radar from the local airports. I don't know (whether ANYONE knows) how radar reflective these things are. But if you DID show up on radar, then I think there is an excellent chance that there is an UNKNOWN OBJECT incident report and that FAA would LOVE to put this one to rest (if not make a HUGE example of their seriousness about this sort of thing). And guess what....here is this video in the public domain....that some official just might be monitoring.......you bragging about it publicly....your name, date, area all identified. What a nice simple package.

    Let us know how this all works out.
     
  13. kenskid

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    Dude now you're getting on my nerves. I'm not a 16 year old kid. I don't scare easy. This phantom did NOT show up on any radar! There are hawks, seagulls, egrets, geese pelicans and even an occasional eagle flying over my house each and every day. They fly low and they fly high. I know the phantom hovered unlike a bird but the hawks and eagles essentially "hover" too. If that quad is showing up on aviation radar then all of those animals are too. The radar would be USELESS for guiding aircraft.

    I'm starting to wonder if someone like you doesn't get a kick out of trying to scare the kids with your long time "knowhow". So in your opinion, the FAA is going to somehow seek out MY video out of the thousands like it online and make an example of me by arresting me or leveling a large fine because my freaking two pound quad copter got pulled away in the wind?!!!

    Come on man, you're killing me!

     
  14. Dave Pitman

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    This video poped up on the suggestion list in youtube. I had just read this conversation and thought is was appropriate.

    This could probably happen to almost any of us.. You can tell it made an impression on this Phantom owner.

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/go0ZNQREXCQ?rel=0
     
  15. OI Photography

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    That should be required viewing for all new Phantom owners
     
  16. kenskid

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    Yes it can happen to any of us. The ONLY solution is to fly our quads miles away from the civilized world. If you are within two miles of a parked car, office window, backyard, playground, Burger King, adult toy store, church, or any other living or man made object that has any sort of value, then you are at risk of hurting a living thing or doing damage to property.

    I'm all for safety but the vast majority of us will be flying within the range of man and man made objects. Judging from the hundred of videos of crashes I've seen on youtube, it seems it doesn't matter if you're flying at 50 feet (like the vid you posted) or 450 feet, if you're near civilization, you are taking a risk. Just do your best check off before flight and fly.

    Thanks for the vid. I was wondering how a plastic phantom crashed through thick office window glass and was about the call BS but then I got the "surprise" ending!

     
  17. Peter Patricelli

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    Ken,
    This will be my last post on this issue. Then you can have your last word and it will be over. I'm not really trying to convince you of anything. I'm making my points for others that are or might be following this thread.

    And no, I am not trying to scare you, or kids. Just trying to inject some cautionary thinking into this whole little rapidly developing world that by necessity will have to be contained and regulated. If only because some people don't mind pushing limits and taking risks, especially when the person affected is LEAST likely to be themselves. And note, there already ARE hard and firm regulations. 400 feet. Above that and anyone is in FAA airspace. Especially in urban areas with multiple airports of various sizes, media reporting helicopters, etc., etc., they take that VERY seriously.

    Your assumptions about radar and birds is flat WRONG. I fish with guides on smallish craft, under 25', who have radar and find schools of fish by pinpointing birds hovering over schools of fish. As few as 2-3 birds can and will show up on radar.. And, THEY do not have any internal metal or hard reflective surfaces. It all depends on the modulation of the radar frequencies. You can dial them in or dial them out....depending on sensitivity and frequency. And yes, flocks of birds DO show up on aircraft radar. I said I didn't know about the Phantom, but I would in fact be surprised if it is totally and completely radar invisible....if someone or some agency wants to detect and track these things. In one sense, something radar UNSEEN in the airspace is probably of even more of concern to them than something they CAN see and track and alert nearby aircraft to avoid. The radar issue is just something to think about.

    That is somewhat tangential to the fact that you have posted on a public website a video of you violating FAA airspace and publicly bragging about it. And there is hard evidence that the FAA is beginning to notice and look at this whole field very carefully. I wonder what would happen if someone connected to the FAA saw this....and alerted them? Interesting question. We all love it when someone else gets to be the test case.
     
  18. cptdarel

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    being a Real Pilot, and just confirmed via E-mail to a FAA friend, "unless you are VERY near an Airport and it's size being a single object in most likely will NOT show up on radar, controlled air space starts at 1200' .
    I have been a commercial Salmon Fisher for 25 years "hence my user name" , yes a flock of birds does show up on radar, a single bird NO!, unless he is right near you and your gain is quite high.
     
  19. kenskid

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  20. rotorhead42

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    I`m not living in the States so I don`t have to worry about the FAA, but I do play it safe to avoid any accidents. I think FPV flown like that at night time will be the main issue, and guys don`t forget these are open forums and yes, someone will start checking - I read a post not long ago about an FAA guy that acknowledged reading forums to gauge and deter commercial use of drones pending the new law. They can also read about all this and give you a hard time if found irresponsible.

    Night flight is not recommended, and the problem with FPV is that you can`t tell the day that an airplane might be right behind you and get a lipo into its turbine, not to mention the whole phantom. Play it safe and follow the rules for your own sake, there`s far too many reasons and possibilities to avoid damaging people or property. I have the local airport flight board data in my phone so I know exactly when there`s no arriving or departing aircraft if I need to fly near the airport. ( flight track and flight radar24 ).

    Even with all that I avoid flying over crowds and keep a timer so the batteries don`t auto land it where it shouldn`t. I fly for panoramic advertising and real estate so I take it very seriously.

    [​IMG]
    This is Sosua, in the Dominican Republic.
     
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