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  1. arcaine25

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    So, I was reading about deep cycling DJI Smart batteries, and most specifically my Inspire. It said after conditioning using the 10/10 method, and then every 10 charges thereafter to deep cycle the batteries. I decided to do that on my P4 batteries today. So my first battery, I fly the Phantom, whose battery was at 100% charge btw.

    Outside temperature was 81F. I flew it like normal, and actually hovered mostly, but some runs here and there so i wasn't bored out of my skull. I checked the battery at around 17% and it was at 62C!
    By the end of the flight, at 8%, it had reached 67C, and I thought there is NO way that can be right, nor good.

    The P4 itself was fine, standard "warm to the touch" as it always is, nothing special or extra hot, but battery, while warmer than normal wasn't out of sorts warm, and I could hold it in my hand.

    After searching the internet, and finding LOTS of info about P2, P3, and what not, I did not find ANYTHING on the ideal / MAX temperature for the P4 batteries. I know it says you shouldn't fly if the temperature OUTSIDE is 40C, but that is the ambient temperature outdoors, not the battery temperature (besides, EVERY single user would be outside that scope unless they live in an extremely cool area all year round).

    DJI manual, no help. The battery itself, no help and no markings leading to such (unlike the P3 and Inspire batteries, which are marked with max temps).

    Anyone have any ideas what the max temp is / should be? Did I exceed the threshold and ruin one of my batteries?

    Any info greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Sim597

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    Well, I'm here in Tx and I've seen my batteries say 70*c which was as high as I've seen, and only once, so your well within guidelines I'm sure. I have a thermal IR tester I use (temp gun) and test my motors, which run as hot as about 90-100*f but battery and internal compartment can be up to 140*f
    The heat of the day and load on battery both play a factor, but as we don't hear too much about failures in this area (after the cold temp low voltage problem fixed with firmware) I'd say your not pushing anything too awful hard and I'm certain others are pushing them a lot hotter with out issues. Interesting, what's the 10/10 thing? I'm an old battery believer in conditioning batteries (less with LiFe and LiPo of course)
    But, don't have an inspire Yet.


    Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
     
  3. alokbhargava

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    I believe DJI has taken care while designing their LIPOs that if the working ambient is 40C / 104F, batteries can deliver full currents, obviously limited by ESCs. If your phantom is not getting too warm, don't worry.

    LIPOs deliver good performance at temperatures of 60C / 140F but all other parts should be designed to withstand such gradients. Technically LIPOS can go unto 100C / 212F and still safely work provided there is enough cooling to external parts like terminals, housing etc. No doubt, battery life reduces as operating temperature rises.

    I believe if the environment temp is limited to 40C, we should not worry as DJI must have designed other parts with safety margins. It may be better to take out hot batteries quickly from the P3/P4 to reduce short time heating of other parts after landing because of lack of cooling.
     
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  4. arcaine25

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    10/10 = first 10 flights of the battery, fly to 50%, land and remove, after 10th flight, recharge, fly to deep cycle % (inspire at least) which can be as low as 5% on the inspire.
    The Phantom packs don't say anything about deep cycling after 10 charges initially, but I figured I would try it anyway. This varies on a person by person basis when it comes to Phantom 3 and 4 packs, but DJI directly says to do this in t heir manual for the Inspire TB47 and TB48 batteries, and then just deep cycle every 10 charges after the initial conditioning. I was contemplating getting the SuperCharger or whatever that was from DJI for Inspire batteries. It charges 4 batteries simultaneously, and has a deep cycle button, making life much simpler.. but it's like $400.

    Definitely agree with the pulling the battery ASAP. I pulled mine out as soon as it landed and I powered it off. I figured I should be ok, as like you guys have said, they account already for up to 104F, but I know the Phantom 3 batteries specifically say 140F is max temp, but, that in mind, I have never had one get to 140F, 134, yes, but even on hot days never 140f... so it must all be by design.

    I just wonder why the P3 batteries clearly mark it, as well as inspire on the max temp, but not P4? Must be something to do with the fact that the P4 battery design is new, and therefore designed to operate without concern as long as we're within the suggested operating parameters ambient wise.
     
  5. Erised

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    I agree to take the battery out soon after a flight so not to rise the internal components of the phantom. I also leave the hot battery in the bird when getting out of the cold into a warm environment that causes condensation on the bird, the heat from the battery helps to flash off the condensate and keep the electronics dry.
     
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  6. arcaine25

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    I too worry about condensation when it arises. Especially coming form an AC temp of 72 to and outside temp of 86 with 70% humidity
     
  7. Erised

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    Cool inside to hot humid outside would be the reverse for me living in northern Ontario. If possible Arcaine before going outside if you put your bird in a sealed plastic bag than take it outside and let the bird warm up you would prevent the humid air to condensate on your ac.
     
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  8. msinger

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    arcaine25, check out the Phantom 4 Battery Safety Guidelines. That's where DJI has hidden away the best information about the Phantom 4 batteries.

    I've never seen DJI recommend any type of break-in period for the batteries. That's some kind of urban legend that has yielded no measurable results.

    DJI no longer recommends deep cycling batteries in their manuals either. I'm not sure why that has gone away.
     
  9. arcaine25

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    Quoted from the Inspire 1 Manual in the attachment below, both online and what came with my inspire. It definitely says in black and white to deep cycle the Inspire batteries to 5% or until it will not turn on anymore.

    I have also read that manual over multiple times 9Phantom 4 battery manual), NO mention whatsoever of the safe temperature for the Phantom 4 battery. Yes, OUTSIDE operating temperature (as stated above in OP), but not the battery itself, unless I am blind?
     

    Attached Files:

  10. msinger

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    Right on. Let's not forget this manual is from 2015 though. Similar wording was in the first Phantom 3 manuals from 2015 too.

    Untitled.png
     
  11. arcaine25

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    yes, from december 2015, and of course was in my brand new Inspire package I got 2 weeks ago. The Inspire batteries are HiV batteries, so maybe that is the difference, but still, both the P3 AND Inspire batteries give a Maximum operating temperature, but the Phantom 4 does not, and no where in the manuals does it state, which was the original asking of the OP, but of course it got a little derailed with my mentioning of the 10/10 stuff, which is just OCD. I'd rather do it for the first 10 cycles and not need it, then not do it, and find out later it would have been better.. :cool:
     
  12. msinger

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    Where do you see this in the current P3 manual?
     
  13. brettinteriors

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    I have been flying lipo packs since they came out (heli and fixed wing). The only reason to ever deep cycle a smart battery is to calibrate it. The lower the voltage per cell you discharge a lipo the less lifespan you will get. Drop that below 3volts per cell and you will puff and ruin your battery. Lipo batteries do not have memory. The idea you need to discharge is from older nimh batteries. Here is a good article on cycle discharge and battery life expectancy. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
     
  14. arcaine25

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    Below I will quote my original post, where i NEVER said anything about the P3 manual, but pointed to the battery itself which states not to heat above 160F, and the Operating then charge temps of 0 - 40C. I STATED that the P4 battery does not even have these markings anywhere on all 5 of my batteries, but never once did I mention that the P3 manual stated such. I did however state that the Inspire manual does indeed, as of the December posting, and still via the direction of DJI recommend deep cycling the battery FOR THE INSPIRE after 10 charges.


    I too have been flying LiPo packs for a long time, several years, and I never thought they had a memory, as I knew they did not. In fact it's recommended to discharge them, depending on storage levels to varying degrees and then recharge fully, indicating no such memory, otherwise if the memory did exist in them, that after so many 50% or whatever storage cycles they'd be half the battery they were, but they ARE NOT.

    DJI however, recommends still to this day to deep cycle at least the Inspire batteries to, and I quote, "Balance the cells every 10th charge" . This "smart battery" may get unbalanced after xx number of charges, or it may not. I don't code the smart batteries, nor manufacture them, but I know that DJI says do it, and even created a charging station with deep cycle function, so they must mean it.

    Just an FYI here too, being that this is a forum I can't properly express attitude / meaning, but I am not trying to be a jerk, so don't take any offense if my replies sound, well, jerky, but I feel that maybe my posts aren't being thoroughly read and understood. Maybe it's how I typed it out, maybe it's the way I formed it all together, who knows, but regardless please don't think I am being a jerk with replies, as I value this community and those that contribute to it just as i do. I am definitely no n00b to multirotors nor DJI products, I have been building and flying for several years, but there is no way for anyone to know that unless I tell them. I also tend to be OCD about things, which can be good or bad, but for me, I was ok until I saw that high temp on my P4 batteries in the app, and I just went to reference max temp on the battery, saw nothing, manual, saw nothing, internet? Still nothing.. I knew that other batteries I saw from DJI mention not above 160F, etc etc, so I freaked a little bit, after all we all have tons of money wrapped up in these things, right? :)
     
    #14 arcaine25, Jun 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016