Phantom 3 Emergency Stop button?

[Meta4]

Think about it.
If your Phantom is happily hovering and the motors are whizzing around at 10000 RPM (or whatever revs it takes to hover) .. and you CSC.
When the speed of those motors drops 10% what do you think the Phantom is doing?
20% .. 30% etc.
The motors don't have to get to zero rpm before Captain Gravity is running the show.

 

[Chuck Young]

Think about it.
If your Phantom is happily hovering and the motors are whizzing around at 10000 RPM (or whatever revs it takes to hover) .. and you CSC.
When the speed of those motors drops 10% what do you think the Phantom is doing?
20% .. 30% etc.
The motors don't have to get to zero rpm before Captain Gravity is running the show.

What concerns me is there is definitely an unbalanced force with some propellers turning faster than others. That force you are saying is insignificant when considering the force of gravity. I am going to have to know exactly what that force does to the attitude of the aircraft before I can rely on a CSC to take the aircraft away from a situation. Maybe that unbalanced force is insignificant but if it causes the aircraft not continue in its original trajectory and dart, dive or otherwise become unpredictable I would be hesitant to put the aircraft in a precarious position.

Today was a fairly good example. I was out near Rocky Mountain National Park inspecting and maintaining some of our equipment. A couple of years ago we replaced a piece of equipment called a bushing. These things have insulating oil in them and have a small gauge that indicates the oil level. I put my 10X50 binoculars on the bushing and I could not get a good reading. If I could trust my Phantom 3 I would have used it to fly up to the gauge and check it out.

If you look in the center of the image there is a small red arrow pointing at the gauge I would need to fly and get within a couple feet. 69,000 volts coming in the top of this thing while the Phantom is there. I would not risk a CSC not knowing how the aircraft will react if It started acting up due to the electromagnetic interference.

 

[bobmyers]

What concerns me is there is definitely an unbalanced force with some propellers turning faster than others. That force you are saying is insignificant when considering the force of gravity. I am going to have to know exactly what that force does to the attitude of the aircraft before I can rely on a CSC to take the aircraft away from a situation. Maybe that unbalanced force is insignificant but if it causes the aircraft not continue in its original trajectory and dart, dive or otherwise become unpredictable I would be hesitant to put the aircraft in a precarious position.

Today was a fairly good example. I was out near Rocky Mountain National Park inspecting and maintaining some of our equipment. A couple of years ago we replaced a piece of equipment called a bushing. These things have insulating oil in them and have a small gauge that indicates the oil level. I put my 10X50 binoculars on the bushing and I could not get a good reading. If I could trust my Phantom 3 I would have used it to fly up to the gauge and check it out.

View attachment 24917

If you look in the center of the image there is a small red arrow pointing at the gauge I would need to fly and get within a couple feet. 69,000 volts coming in the top of this thing while the Phantom is there. I would not risk a CSC not knowing how the aircraft will react if It started acting up due to the electromagnetic interference.

I think you may be trying too hard to use the Phantom to inspect the high voltage power equipment. The high voltage would be a red flag for even flying that close. Looks like to me, it is not safe, so the question of using CSC to abort in an emergency is just adding another potential cause of losing the Phantom.

The only way I would even think about flying mine to see what you are trying to see is if the camera had a telephoto lens that you could zoom in.

 

[Chuck Young]

Think about it.
If your Phantom is happily hovering and the motors are whizzing around at 10000 RPM (or whatever revs it takes to hover) .. and you CSC.
When the speed of those motors drops 10% what do you think the Phantom is doing?
20% .. 30% etc.
The motors don't have to get to zero rpm before Captain Gravity is running the show.

I think you may be trying too hard to use the Phantom to inspect the high voltage power equipment. The high voltage would be a red flag for even flying that close. Looks like to me, it is not safe, so the question of using CSC to abort in an emergency is just adding another potential cause of losing the Phantom.

The only way I would even think about flying mine to see what you are trying to see is if the camera had a telephoto lens that you could zoom in.

That is in the works too.
http://www.phantompilots.com/threads/zoom-lens-for-p3.46076/#post-449409

I am not just all gung ho for the Phantom doing high voltage inspections just think if it could work it could help. If you are familiar with the industry you would understand that sometimes it is very difficult to essentially get the power shut off to inspect and carry out certain functions. It is all about being versatile with the tools I might have available.

 

[bobmyers]

That is in the works too.
http://www.phantompilots.com/threads/zoom-lens-for-p3.46076/#post-449409

I am not just all gung ho for the Phantom doing high voltage inspections just think if it could work it could help. If you are familiar with the industry you would understand that sometimes it is very difficult to essentially get the power shut off to inspect and carry out certain functions. It is all about being versatile with the tools I might have available.

With 2.4GHZ radio signal-- you are going uphill in preventing signal loss or interruption that close to high voltage lines. I have seen a couple rc planes using the 2.4 band, go straight in to crash that close to high voltage lines.

 

[Chuck Young]

With 2.4GHZ radio signal-- you are going uphill in preventing signal loss or interruption that close to high voltage lines. I have seen a couple rc planes using the 2.4 band, go straight in to crash that close to high voltage lines.

I will be able to answer that question for you soon. I have a co-worker who is an engineer and I know he would like to see drones used more in the industry. He flies a DJI Flame Wheel.

I am trying to figure out how to tether my P3 so I can test some of this stuff. I have been a comm/instrument/relay guy for some time so the high voltage stuff is really not my main interest at all. Not that my stuff would not just simply fry my little P3. Common sense is currently my main tool, it helps to have a large collection of fine test and measurement instruments too.

Here is another from today, more my stuff and not the other stuff. I love the view and cant wait for the snow to fly. Chasing a sled with a phantom has to look awesome!

 

[Meta4]

Maybe that unbalanced force is insignificant but if it causes the aircraft not continue in its original trajectory and dart, dive or otherwise become unpredictable I would be hesitant to put the aircraft in a precarious position.

I have seen a hovering Phantom CSCd at 30 feet.
It did not dart, dive or otherwise. It dropped like a stone - and instantly too.

 

[Chuck Young]

I have seen a hovering Phantom CSCd at 30 feet.
It did not dart, dive or otherwise. It dropped like a stone - and instantly too.

Well maybe it rolls it just enough to make a more aerodynamic dive into the ground?

We shall see. I have only began to research this issue.

 

[AHill]

If you are doing a CSC you are basically telling the Phantom to destroy itself by dropping to the ground. If it were to veer slightly left or right when doing the CSC the worst that would happen is it would hit a wire or the support tower before dropping. It doesn't look like it would damage either item, just damage the Phantom before it hit the ground. I don't think you would have a person near enough to be in harms way if you were checking the lines as described. If a person were that close it would be just as likely to hit them if it dropped straight down.

 

[Chuck Young]

If you are doing a CSC you are basically telling the Phantom to destroy itself by dropping to the ground. If it were to veer slightly left or right when doing the CSC the worst that would happen is it would hit a wire or the support tower before dropping. It doesn't look like it would damage either item, just damage the Phantom before it hit the ground. I don't think you would have a person near enough to be in harms way if you were checking the lines as described. If a person were that close it would be just as likely to hit them if it dropped straight down.

That sounds reasonable with one exception...

These lines are run in 3 phases, any of the three could short to each other or to ground. If the Phantom and the wires that connect the motors together got close enough to cause a flashover then a short circuit would occur. Never a good thing. So "veering slightly one direction or the other" really needs to be quantified in order for the use of one of these things around high voltage. I plan on doing just that.

 

[fhk]

Interesting thread, so you are allowed to use the phantom for commercial use and also allowed to fly in a national park

 

[Chuck Young]

Interesting thread, so you are allowed to use the phantom for commercial use and also allowed to fly in a national park

Not sure how that works?

 

[Chuck Young]

Ok, So I just finished up shooting some high speed photography of my Phantom 3. Idle rpm is about 1052 RPM, Hover is about 6000 RPM, When CSC 2 propellers rev to 2608 RPM. So upon CSC the aircraft receives about 170 grams of imbalanced thrust. I do believe a drop like a stone would be accompanied by a dart in one direction or another, in other words a departure from predictability.

 

[bobmyers]

Ok, So I just finished up shooting some high speed photography of my Phantom 3. Idle rpm is about 1052 RPM, Hover is about 6000 RPM, When CSC 2 propellers rev to 2608 RPM. So upon CSC the aircraft receives about 170 grams of imbalanced thrust. I do believe a drop like a stone would be accompanied by a dart in one direction or another, in other words a departure from predictability.

I don't think so-- the motors stop at CSC, so there is not thrust

 

[Chuck Young]

I don't think so-- the motors stop at CSC, so there is not thrust

Not my P3P, sitting on the ground at idle, when I CSC two motors speed up for 0.6 seconds before they turn off. If yours doesn't I'll trade you. I don't like it. It has caused my bird to tip and rest on prop guards more than once.

 

[fhk]

It doesn't translate to action in the air. Any down stick on the bench will shut down the motors after a short delay. The csc in the air is supposedly immediate, try it on a guy wire or over a trampoline.

 

[fhk]

Cant seem to edit my post, so remember there may be more than 1 CSC according to the manual, it isn't clear. Any down on both sticks will shut down on the ground.

 

[fhk]

I think since you have a corporate phantom you should test these things and let us know.
1. Does the CSC shut it down immediately?
2. Is the CSC recoverable?
3. Is there more than 1 CSC for motor shutdown?
Obviously you did not personally pay for your Phantom so you should be helping us, not vice versa

 

[Meta4]

When CSC 2 propellers rev to 2608 RPM. So upon CSC the aircraft receives about 170 grams of imbalanced thrust. I do believe a drop like a stone would be accompanied by a dart in one direction or another, in other words a departure from predictability.

Here's predictable .. it's all gravity.
There is no darting to one side.

Anyone who's done it or seen it done can confirm that on CSC a hovering Phantom drops like a stone.

 

[Chuck Young]

Here's predictable .. it's all gravity.
There is no darting to one side.

Anyone who's done it or seen it done can confirm that on CSC a hovering Phantom drops like a stone.

Thanks for the link to the video. Not quite all gravity, if you look closely when the bird gets the csc it does dart o the left about a foot. I assume if you CSC with the sticks to the outside it will dart to the right a foot. I can work with that. Just didn't want to do it with my bird.