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Phantom 2 Vision+ V3.0 limitations

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision + Discussion' started by rob_ea&id, May 11, 2015.

  1. rob_ea&id

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    So I just made a 1200$ purchase on a Phantom 2 Vision+ V3.0. (Delivery pending) I really hope it wasn’t a complete mistake because of some of the “big brother” imposed limitations.

    All of us realize the hazards of these aircraft when operated by morons, or individuals with malevolent intentions, ergo my questions are not being posed to facilitate some sort of departure form safe practices, rather I’d just like to know what exactly are the limitations of the aircraft.

    What’s not clear:

    1. Is the aircraft limited (via firmware) to a maximum altitude that cannot be changed by the end user? For example in a rural area far away from any airports, and way outside any no fly zones. I am aware that in the Phantom 2 Vision+ Assistant software, in the advanced menu, under the limits tab, and distance limits, the user can change the default “Max Height” , but nowhere can I find the maximum allowable value that verifiably works.
     
  2. Hasan Ahmad

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    from what I read, the P2V+ 3.0 is restricted within 1.5 miles radius of an airport of no flying. between 1.5 and 5 miles of an airport you are restricted to 400 feet. beyond 5 miles radius of an airport, there is no restriction I believe*


    *you need to fly in manual mode for complete no restriction I think beyond the 5 miles
     
    #2 Hasan Ahmad, May 11, 2015
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  3. Jeff48920

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    Outside of no fly zones and restricted fly zones, the landowner generally controls airspace up to 86 feet above the land. Between 86 and 499 feet no person or agency controls operations unless the operation is restricted by other federal or local law. (For instance, you still need a license to fly an ultralight even though you don't exceed 400 ft in altitude). Anything flying above 500 is subject to FAA jurisdiction.

    You can set your general max height on the P2+ v.3.0 in the Phantom Assustant software. 400 is just a recommended height limit to avoid issues.
     
  4. yorlik

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    please list this 86 foot limit statute
     
  5. Jeff48920

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    Its not a statute, it is from an court opinion interpreting air rights ownership from the early days of flying. I can't remember the name of the case but it involved a cattle rancher whose property adjoined a landing strip. The plaintiff rancher argued that his property rights included all the air rights to the edge of the atmosphere, and the aircraft operators argued that the property owner had no air rights. The court determined that the land owner had air rights to the extent that those rights were important to his ownership. The plaintiff rancher stated that the low flying aircraft scared the cattle diminishing his profit. The court, in a typical split the baby decision and drafting as narrowly as possible, said that since the aircraft could take off and land safely by maintaining a flight path that kept the aircraft at least 86 feet (if I remember correctly) above the property and that the landowner had the right to control anything below that.
    The statutes giving FAA authority gives FAA full control over anything above 500'. In part, as I recall, that legislation was based on the theory that over 500 feet above the property, a land owner cannot have any reasonable use for the air rights.
    These two things (the legal precedent and the statutes) create a no-man's zone between 87' and 499'. As I said before, as true as this is, I wouldn't want to be the one to argue this in federal court.
     
  6. Jeff48920

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    Boy is my memory going, It's 83 feet and it involved a NC chicken farmer and a US Supreme Court case. United States v. Causby 328 U.S.256
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/05/30/317074394/drone-wars-who-owns-the-air
     
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  7. rob_ea&id

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    Thus far, the above answers are all very good information, and operators should follow recommended operating procedures, because nobody wants to be the guy that causes a real world FAA incident, or worse. But the question is simply: Are there any firmware limitations that limit maximum height, when outside the restricted air space envelope ( near an airport)?
     
  8. rob_ea&id

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    Thanks for the info!
     
  9. Meta4

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    Outside No-Fly zones, you can fly the P2V+ as high as you have battery power or there are enough air molecules to provide lift.
    There are no inbuilt height limits and the limit in the app is configurable.
     
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  10. rob_ea&id

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    Very clear answer. Thanks!!
     
  11. garrock

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    Can one fly at ground level (below 86 feet) as far as they want ???

    A Repeater Drone flying above you will allow such flights.
     
  12. Meta4

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    Of course it might not be wise to go for crazy heights for a number of reasons.
    For one .. the P2 descent speed is considerably slower than it ascends.
    Coming down at 2 metres/sec takes a lot longer than going up at 6 m/s
    As has been shown by Youtube dummies, it's quite possible to go up beyond the battery's ability to bring you down safely.
     
  13. Jeff48920

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    You may fly on your own property unrestricted or on property on which you you have permission of the landowner. Except in those stress designated as no fly zones.
     
  14. garrock

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    So... to remain under the FAA radar (so to speak), stay below 86 feet. A repeater drone at 400 feet or lower inverses the equation. Fly the camera-worker drone at near ground level out to long distances.
     
  15. Meta4

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    I don't think the FAA recognise any boundary at 83 feet.
    Some FAA personnel have expressed an opinion that if you are an inch above ground, you are under their jurisdiction.
    The 83 foot issue is about landowners right to develop their land and not about flying at a particular level.
    The 83 ft measurement isn't set in stone either.
    In the much quoted United States v. Causby case, Causby's chicken farm happened to be adjacent to an air force base and the approach path brought planes down to 83 feet at one boundary. Causby was entitled to use that space but extrapolating from that to another situation is fertile ground for expensive lawyers to plough.
     
  16. Jeff48920

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    FAA is clearly overreaching. Their authority over airspace is limited to 500 feet and over. They do, however, have the authority to require licenses and other rules for operating aircraft. They have not, as yet, done anything except issue advisory orders.
     
  17. RoyVa

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    • Fly below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles
    • Keep the aircraft within visual line of sight at all times
    • Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations
    • Don't fly within 5 miles of an airport unless you contact the airport and control tower before flying
    • Don't fly near people or stadiums
    • Don't fly an aircraft that weighs more than 55 lbs
    • Don't be careless or reckless with your unmanned aircraft – you could be fined for endangering people or other aircraft
    These are the FAA guidelines for hobbiest. No where does it say in a no fly zone you can go as high as you can. Small aircraft have area of altitude they can fly in and so we as hobbiest are to stay at 400 ft or below to keep from entering into other airspace.

    www.faa.gov/model aircraft operations. Of course this is for the U.S. Guidelines.
     
  18. Meta4

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  19. Jeff48920

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    Excellent article and quite illuminating on the overreaching arrogance of the agency. Although courts generally give credence to the interpretation of legislation by the agency responsible for executing legislation, they also take a dim view of interpretations which clearly interfere with landowner rights. I have never seen anything in any legislation that allows the FAA to regulate what you do within your airspace. Now if they honestly believe that they can regulate you or a designee from reasonably flying a drone within your own airspace, as defined by the Supreme Court, then I believe a reasonable federal court would side with the landowner.
     
  20. Jeff48920

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    here is the opinion that will be open for comment when published
    https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/model_aircraft_spec_rule.pdf.