Phantom 2 Vision+ Flyaway

Re: Phantom 2 Vision+ Flyaway Cause and Resoultion

xgeek,

Please re-read what you wrote. You said that my conclusion was wrong because people were having these issues in prior versions. I showed you where the function exists in the first Phantoms. They didn't take that functionality away with the new release of Phantom 2. All you have shown is that the replaced the original functionality with their own functionality - not that it didn't exist prior to this.

There is no other explanation than a serious logic error in the Phantoms making it unsafe to fly.
 
DrJoe said:
Guys, this is like the 12th subject on this GPS error crap in a month.. Your all rehashing old news, with the exception of the poster that had his phantom stuck at altitude over the home point (I don't get that one) Just do the following:

#1 check connections in the Phantom (made in China)
#2 check satellite/space weather and winds aloft
#3 Don't even take off until you have 6 satellites.
#4 Know your modes, and how to fly ATTI, home to use IOC on home point, etc. When your ready, learn to fly manual mode.
#5 Fly with Situational Awareness and watch the satellite indicator in the App.

So what you are sayings is that the GPS mode is faulty and you should not use it. If that's the case then #3 is not all that important since you are going to fly it in manual mode only an d not worry about the return to home function. Except I suppose if the GPS "hops" to another location mid-flight such that the Phantom thinks it is out of its range limit.

To me this aircraft should not be flown because it is unsafe because the pilot can loose control of the aircraft because of errors in the logic in the firmware. We see that happening time and time again across many examples all over the internet.
 
desertphantom said:
I just moved from V to V+ and noticed quite a delay in getting GPS lock signal compared to the V where it happened almost instantly.
It's better to hoover on top of your take of point for a while to confirm GPS lock signal because that will also be your RTH point.

Except that at take off if you have an incorrect GPS lock to start with, it flight fly back to where it thinks its home point is - if that erroneous home location is out of range limits. If that happens you won't have time to reset the home location because the Phantom will just take off. Good bye Phantom.
 
This is all getting ridiculous, anyone agree? Who really knows what causes them to fly away. Maybe they are being hijacked by little green men.
My first one crashed, My second one (now it appears to be working) remains grounded. Why? Frankly, because I am worried. Not only about this one crashing or flying away & losing another $1500, but getting sued by someone if it happens to hit them, or worse. Can you imagine being hit by a 1.5kg object falling from 100ft or more? Might kill someone...
This should be an enjoyable past time/hobby for us all, instead it's turning into a fiasco.
So I'm wondering what is the point buying these things & being afraid to fly them? I think i will either leave it in the box until such time the problems are addressed by DJI & a suitable fix/remedy is implemented, or I'll sell them both & cut my losses.

The excitement of these things is fading and I'm quickly losing interest in the whole idea...
 
Phantom_Menace66 said:
This is all getting ridiculous, anyone agree? Who really knows what causes them to fly away. Maybe they are being hijacked by little green men.
My first one crashed, My second one (now it appears to be working) remains grounded. Why? Frankly, because I am worried. Not only about this one crashing or flying away & losing another $1500, but getting sued by someone if it happens to hit them, or worse. Can you imagine being hit by a 1.5kg object falling from 100ft or more? Might kill someone...
This should be an enjoyable past time/hobby for us all, instead it's turning into a fiasco.
So I'm wondering what is the point buying these things & being afraid to fly them? I think i will either leave it in the box until such time the problems are addressed by DJI & a suitable fix/remedy is implemented, or I'll sell them both & cut my losses.

The excitement of these things is fading and I'm quickly losing interest in the whole idea...

Are you new to the R/C hobbies?

Because fly-aways, crashes, failures, lock-outs, mid-airs, vapor-lock, ground loops, lost a/c, etc. have been going on, and will continue, with model aircraft.

I understand the risks, possibilities, and diligence required so I'm not afraid to fly but I do respect the possibilities.

When you lose fear, or better yet, respect then you will be a danger to yourself and others.

The fact that the technology has made r/c flight more accessible to anyone regardless of skill or experience level with $1K to spend and that they are being flown everywhere with different levels of care, caution, and preparation make it more likely there will be plenty more stories of loss to come.

Sorry you fear flying but every hobby costs $ to play, I figure $25-50/hr.
 
Re: Phantom 2 Vision+ Flyaway Cause and Resoultion

Railhound said:
xgeek,

Please re-read what you wrote. You said that my conclusion was wrong because people were having these issues in prior versions. I showed you where the function exists in the first Phantoms. They didn't take that functionality away with the new release of Phantom 2. All you have shown is that the replaced the original functionality with their own functionality - not that it didn't exist prior to this.

There is no other explanation than a serious logic error in the Phantoms making it unsafe to fly.

Sorry my bad. I thought you was saying that fly aways were due to the geofence limit that was introduced in v2.0 and up. :oops:
 
Phantom_Menace66 said:
This is all getting ridiculous, anyone agree? Who really knows what causes them to fly away. Maybe they are being hijacked by little green men.
My first one crashed, My second one (now it appears to be working) remains grounded. Why? Frankly, because I am worried. Not only about this one crashing or flying away & losing another $1500, but getting sued by someone if it happens to hit them, or worse. Can you imagine being hit by a 1.5kg object falling from 100ft or more? Might kill someone...
This should be an enjoyable past time/hobby for us all, instead it's turning into a fiasco.
So I'm wondering what is the point buying these things & being afraid to fly them? I think i will either leave it in the box until such time the problems are addressed by DJI & a suitable fix/remedy is implemented, or I'll sell them both & cut my losses.

The excitement of these things is fading and I'm quickly losing interest in the whole idea...

The fact of the matter is that DJI has not responded to these concerns. I tried calling today and they are experiencing such a high volume of calls they simply hung up the phone. Or should I say the phone robot hung up the phone. What does that tell you?

They advertise a product that has failsafe mechanisms that simply do not reliably work and with product defects that will at some point cause the very issue you speak about - a 1.5KG object falling from the sky and hitting someone.

The problem starts with DJI and all the other - shall I say arrogant - people other there who naturally assume pilot error. If you read the literature and the manual it should be almost impossible to lose these things assuming the device functions as advertised. You shouldn't have them zip off to some unknown destination. You should not lose control standing 1 meter in front of the device. It should not be even possible to fly the thing out of its range limits because: 1) the default limit is so far way it is likely that to get there the Phantom is out of control in the first place because the signal would be lost and 2) When it loses the signal - back to home it should go - not wander off.

I have heard some guys say they put their name on the machine - why so you can be tracked down and sued. Flying these things will put others in danger. Your call but until DJI admits and recognizes this issue and fixes it - you are taking a big liability risk. Try suing a Chinese company - good luck. I can't even get them on the phone.
 
N017RW said:
Phantom_Menace66 said:
This is all getting ridiculous, anyone agree? Who really knows what causes them to fly away. Maybe they are being hijacked by little green men.
My first one crashed, My second one (now it appears to be working) remains grounded. Why? Frankly, because I am worried. Not only about this one crashing or flying away & losing another $1500, but getting sued by someone if it happens to hit them, or worse. Can you imagine being hit by a 1.5kg object falling from 100ft or more? Might kill someone...
This should be an enjoyable past time/hobby for us all, instead it's turning into a fiasco.
So I'm wondering what is the point buying these things & being afraid to fly them? I think i will either leave it in the box until such time the problems are addressed by DJI & a suitable fix/remedy is implemented, or I'll sell them both & cut my losses.

The excitement of these things is fading and I'm quickly losing interest in the whole idea...

Are you new to the R/C hobbies?

Because fly-aways, crashes, failures, lock-outs, mid-airs, vapor-lock, ground loops, lost a/c, etc. have been going on, and will continue, with model aircraft.

I understand the risks, possibilities, and diligence required so I'm not afraid to fly but I do respect the possibilities.

When you lose fear, or better yet, respect then you will be a danger to yourself and others.

The fact that the technology has made r/c flight more accessible to anyone regardless of skill or experience level with $1K to spend and that they are being flown everywhere with different levels of care, caution, and preparation make it more likely there will be plenty more stories of loss to come.

Sorry you fear flying but every hobby costs $ to play, I figure $25-50/hr.

I have been flying/sailing R/C planes, boats etc on & off for 30yrs. I've crashed a fair few, all bar one were my fault, 100%. But I have never lost $3,000 worth of gear so quickly!
I think that we (as a society) have become far too dependent on technology, which in many areas is still in its infancy. There are so many variables that could be responsible for communication problems in regards to GPS etc.
 
I've crashed a fair few, all bar one were my fault, 100%. But I have never lost $3,000 worth of gear so quickly!
I think that we (as a society) have become far too dependent on technology, which in many areas is still in its infancy. There are so many variables that could be responsible for communication problems in regards to GPS etc.

Except when the technology that is designed to save you from crashes actually causes them and you have no way recovering, you ought to not fly that device. That is the point here.
 
I know my time will come..

I’ve had over 20hrs air time and zero crashes (knock on wood) and this is what I have learnt from others.
Stock Vision + with 3.04 firmware (latest) and as of today FPV booster app.

Transmitter:
1. Don’t be cheap on batteries. Use proper 1.5v Alkaline AA batteries and don’t be tight. Alkaline 1.5 x 4 = 6V, Rechargeables 1.25 x 4 = 5V. Losing $1500 bucks because you saved $1. You can get about 20-40 hrs flight time per a set depending on brand.
2. Also avoid cheap non-brand batteries as the terminal may be shorter. If the remote control loses power, then phantom goes failsafe immediately. It only takes a simple bump for the batteries to come loose and you have fail safe.
3. Point antenna perpendicular to ground.

Phantom assistance software:
1. Use NAZA-M and learn IOC, ATTI, RTH and when ready, learn Manual (scary).
2. Set all the HORIZONTAL and VERTICAL limits to 9999999999. I think this is the secondary culprit in flyaways. Think about it. If the limits are set to horizontal 400m, and you have taken it to a new location and the GPS hasn’t properly acquired, it will fly back to the 400m radius “last known” home position. They should have this option turned off. Explains why it happens on the newer firmware/update.

Phantom:
1. BE PATIENT!!! Do all flight checks (I'm not going to mention them as they are in the manual).
2. Avoid taking off on concrete slabs or metal. Use a box. Stops compass misreads.
3. After the 6> satellites are found, I pick phantom from the arm and walk it around in a figure eight so the GPS reassures itself. This avoids that error you see on your car GPS when you turn it on. Sometimes it’s confused and thinks you’re in another country. This is the primary reason for the flyaways. I think it looks at the last known home position or there is a GPS misread. DJI should have the firmware update that asks the phantom a simple question. During the failsafe/rth, if the satellites are re-pinged, failsafe should be cancelled when the distance is far too great. It should hover and then emergency land if battery is low. They need to look at a sanity check calculation where if the distance is too far from home, then cancel failsafe/RTH.
4. I hover 10 feet for 30-60secs in front me and do control check (yaw, pitch, camera, etc). Whilst this is happening, I use the IOC switch to reset the home position (NAZA-M must be on). Repeat this quickly for 1-7 times > flick OFF, then MIDDLE, back to OFF for more than 5 times. You will see it clearly that the green lights will flash rapidly, especially if its hovering in front of you. The green rapid flash = new home position. You can do this in mid-flight, just don’t do it over water.
5. If you crash phantom, pull her apart and check if anything has come loose.

Phone/Display Device:
1. Stay at your home point and fly the phantom away from you for 10m and look at the orienteering and compare your position vs the phantom. Spin her or yourself around and compare/confirm where you are standing is the home point.
2. Get the FPV booster app for around $10. I just purchased this today and haven’t tried it, but It may help. This will extend/double your FPV range and may help you locate it (only works on the vision plus). I purchase this app to get better clarity in flight and not to do distance flights.

Few extra tips:
1. Learn to catch land. Practice with prop guards first. Make sure you have a lanyard for catch landings. Also, be weary with battery level on catch landings as the phantom will try to descend when the alarms are on. PLEASE ALSO NOTE to use prop guard M3x12 with prop guards and M3x8 with prop guards. incorrect screws will seize the motor!
2. Use cable ties in the rubber mounts for additional gimbal support. Don’t over tighten, keep it loose otherwise video will be shaky.
3. Use a texter and mark 1 2 3 4 on the props and draw lock directions (texter wont affect balance). Makes it quicker to assemble.
4. DON’T use carbon props. NO BENEFIT and more dangerous!! Always use DJI PROPS.
5. DON’T fly out of sight unless you have a spotter. I don’t know why first time flyers try this the moment they get airborne. It’s like skydiving without a parachute.
6. Use black tape to cover the front lights for night flight. The red light bleeds into the video.
7. You tube as much as you can.
8. Avoid the aftermarket 5800/5600 mah battery.
9. Be discreet when flying. The buzzing noise attracts attention. Next thing you know, you have a crowd distracting you with questions. You get disorientated and terrible footage (I hate how the transmitter is fluorescent white).

Finally, if you see it do anything strange, restart or call it day unless you want a fly-away :)
 
"2. Set all the HORIZONTAL and VERTICAL limits to 9999999999. I think this is the secondary culprit in flyaways. Think about it. If the limits are set to horizontal 400m, and you have taken it to a new location and the GPS hasn’t properly acquired, it will fly back to the 400m radius “last known” home position. They should have this option turned off. Explains why it happens on the newer firmware/update."

Where do you find this information?

If it doesn't have new proper GPS location how does it know which way to 'fly-away' to get back to the 'last known' location?

What am I missing? Please help. :?
 
N017RW said:
"2. Set all the HORIZONTAL and VERTICAL limits to 9999999999. I think this is the secondary culprit in flyaways. Think about it. If the limits are set to horizontal 400m, and you have taken it to a new location and the GPS hasn’t properly acquired, it will fly back to the 400m radius “last known” home position. They should have this option turned off. Explains why it happens on the newer firmware/update."

Where do you find this information?

If it doesn't have new proper GPS location how does it know which way to 'fly-away' to get back to the 'last known' location?

What am I missing? Please help. :?

I'm no Rocket Doctor, but there are many factors that we don't know yet.

I will try and think like the NAZA.

Lets say you have locked a home position and set 400 radius in the limits.
If you exceed the 400, it will fly back to home position.
As per the Phantom Assistance:
"2. Only Throttle and Rudder commands are available if the aircraft rushes out of the limits, AND IT WILL FLY BACK TOWARDS HOME POINT AUTOMATICALLY."

Now lets say its the next and you decide to fly somewhere else outside the 400m radius limit set by the Phantom Assistant.
Due to some abnormal preflight checklist or unforeseen reason, you switch the phantom on and it somehow it thinks, "hey, I can't be bothered "locking" my current position but wtf, the GPS says I'm outside my radius from my last known home position. Screw you guys, I'm going home!"

The NAZA may prioritize RTH over any input, and as stated by the assistance, you may only use throttle and rudder commands.

I hope this makes sense.
 

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I posted similar information on another blog but I thought it would be useful to add at least one point here. If you want to see the thread about flyaways and lots of discussion see here: http://www.djiguys.com/Forum/viewtopic. ... 2&start=15

Since we know commercial GPS can be susceptible to errors due to multipath for example it would be a disaster waiting to happen if the wrong home location was locked onto at take-off and the firmware did not handle these erroneous events.

Here is a little diagram that illustrates just one example of what could happen. Suppose as you take-off the home location is erroneously locked a position 3KM away and 1KM above you. This is an "impossible condition" in GPS mode since you can't fly out of the range cylinder even if you wanted to. When the device flies around a bit it gets a correct lock and then it suddenly finds that it is way out of its limit. It did not get there by flying in IOC mode so this is an "impossible condition". How does the firmware handle this? Well if the device operated as advertised, the only controls that would work are those that take you back into the range cylinder. In other words, you could only fly it up and away from you using the controls.

However, and this is a guess as I don't know for sure, it is possible that this "impossible condition" creates a race condition or other failure in the firmware causing unpredictable and uncontrollable flight.

Either way, you would have a flyaway/uncontrollable flight.

It is interesting if you play with this concept a little you'll see all kinds of weird conditions that can occur. Suppose the cylinders overlap? You could be flying normally at the intersection point and then you what to bring the Phantom back to you but it won't come. It will be like hitting a wall as you try to bring it to you. If you initiate a return to home, it would fly away from you.

The Phantom 2 has the IOC control disabled by default so you can't cancel the GPS mode by flipping into IOC mode. My suggestion would be to enable the IOC mode. It might save you but if a race condition or other firmware failure is created as a result of the "impossible condition", then who knows how the device will behave. It's like a computer that hangs.

There is not doubt however, whatever the cause, that these devices have a serious flaw that causes uncontrollable flight. Dr. Joe and others have some great suggestions to help reduce the possibility of a flyaway. My suggestion is to stay away from GPS mode until DJI answers the question as to why these flyaways and uncontrollable flights are happening.

Oh yeah and read this: http://www.fastcompany.com/3028781/what ... ne-crashes to decide if you want to still keep flying a device that loses pilot control.
 

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Fly away.

A Quadcopter has been found in Gloucestershire.

Contact me with the the make, model (serial number) and all other relevant details about it to confirm ownership.

Mike
07970 282404
 
Phantom 2 Vision + flyes like crazy away ...

A friend of mine got so exited for receiving his first P2 Vision+ .. i received about 7 phonecalls asking me a milion questions on how and why... Ofcource i first as him to watch all the videos ... and he was very exited to go out there and fly it ...
I even sent him an sms NOT to fly without compass calibration and it was better to make the first fly with me .. bla bla bla ..
But yet .. he gets into his car and drives 20 klm out of the city and tryes to perform a compass calibration which at the end of the day i understood he was doing it wrong .. and the calibration never sucessfully completed ...
He lifts off and after 40 meters hight Phantom flyes full speed full thrust in a perfect strsight line to a direction ....
Its GONE .... out of the box ... first flight ..... i understand that his exitement leed him to many mistakes .. but what a price to pay ! Now ..... any ideas to what distance i should help him with the search ? how far away should it keep going untill drops with full battery ?
 
Re: Phantom 2 Vision + flyes like crazy away ...

Have you tried the Find My Phantom Vision Plus yet in the app settings?
 
Re: Phantom 2 Vision + flyes like crazy away ...

manosmanoli said:
A friend of mine got so exited for receiving his first P2 Vision+ .. i received about 7 phonecalls asking me a milion questions on how and why... Ofcource i first as him to watch all the videos ... and he was very exited to go out there and fly it ...
I even sent him an sms NOT to fly without compass calibration and it was better to make the first fly with me .. bla bla bla ..
But yet .. he gets into his car and drives 20 klm out of the city and tryes to perform a compass calibration which at the end of the day i understood he was doing it wrong .. and the calibration never sucessfully completed ...
He lifts off and after 40 meters hight Phantom flyes full speed full thrust in a perfect strsight line to a direction ....
Its GONE .... out of the box ... first flight ..... i understand that his exitement leed him to many mistakes .. but what a price to pay ! Now ..... any ideas to what distance i should help him with the search ? how far away should it keep going untill drops with full battery ?
He really should have started with a used DJI Phantom 2 Vision that only costs less than $700 and practice with that for a while before getting a plus.
 
To everyone who has lost a Phantom, you may get it back

Today I had my Phantom fly away. Right before it did, my sceen froze so I wasn't getting any feedback and I lost LOS long time ago. Finally gave up and went home sad. Got home and remembered the program,Find My Phantom. What the hell, flipped the DJI app back on and went to Settings, the Find My Phantom. THERE ON A MAP WAS THE ICON OF MY PHANTOM!!! I went back to the forest preserves and followed the map. When I was parrallel to the icon I turned right into the forest. Went about 200 feet and there was my Phantom!!! It had fallen about 60 feet from the treetop (later viewed in the video) . 2 broke props,bent nacelle, and bent gimbal arm(wonder if I can unbend that) . But I had my Phantom back!

So to everyone who have lost their Phantom, go back to DJI app and open Find MY Phantom. The key may be right there.
 

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