Phantom 2 flyways

[goldfishrock]

It continued to do so regardless of what I did with the stick. It seemed like I was controlling speed, but not direction.

Really sorry to hear about you loss. It's a sober reminder to all of us of what can happen :-(

My immediate reaction when I read that line was that somehow the P2 had jumped into IOC Home or Course lock... If one of those had been activated then what you expected to happen on the sticks wouldn't translate into the flight... add in a little bit of panic on your part (obviously completly understandable under the circumstances) and it certainly could appear to be out of control. Was it configured in NAZAM or Phantom mode? Is there any chance this could have been the case?

The only other thing that may have been an issue was when you flew near the boat. Could it have been some radio transmission from maybe or did the boat have a Maritime Radar? Flying close to any radiation source has caused this to happen to others.

 

[ghinson]

I was flying Phantom mode.

The boat was a beat-up inshore scalloping boat (18-20 ft). I didn't look closely at the electronics. But most of these carry radio and GPS. But not radar.

 

[poostik]

man. that's scary -
i've seen a bunch of pretty cool phantom videos with boats in them.

 

[Big Ben]

I was flying Phantom mode.

The boat was a beat-up inshore scalloping boat (18-20 ft). I didn't look closely at the electronics. But most of these carry radio and GPS. But not radar.

Might they have been using an equally old (badly shielded) generator/electric motor which created a magnetic disturbance throwing off your compass and generating a degree of conflict between GPS and compass sensor data?

 

[ianwood]

Boats have a lot of potential RF interference sources: badly maintained engine ignition systems, generators, badly maintained or damaged VHF radios and antennas, radar systems, long range WiFi installations, etc. I also wonder what effect a cluster of sailboat masts in a marina have as the are all perfect vertically polarized antennas that could create a multipath hell.

See this related incident:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8806

 

[LuvMyTJ]

<snip>I would like a very bright horizontal light of some sort that gives a visual of the P2 orientation, any ideas? </snip>

Check ebay, etc. as there are many headlight/light options you can fit to the Phantom. Like these... http://tinyurl.com/m57r8qd

 

[ghinson]

Finally got through to DJI support. Took me three days of calling, and a 40 minute wait, to get through. But, I got a rep named Anthony who was very helpful and sympathetic. After I told the story, his conclusion was that it sounded like mechanical failure or GPS interference. Without promising any specific remediation, he opened a ticket and sent me a spreadsheet to fill out, answering 16 specific questions about the event. The questions are obviously intended to weed out pilot error, but I answered them honestly, and completely and returned the form to him.

I'm told that the form will be reviewed by a supervisor in the next few business days and I will be informed if they have "an offer" for me.

I'm hopeful. And was pleasantly surprised at the sympathetic ear. We'll see. Will let you know.

 

[Droid]

Finally got through to DJI support. Took me three days of calling, and a 40 minute wait, to get through. But, I got a rep named Anthony who was very helpful and sympathetic. After I told the story, his conclusion was that it sounded like mechanical failure or GPS interference. Without promising any specific remediation, he opened a ticket and sent me a spreadsheet to fill out, answering 16 specific questions about the event. The questions are obviously intended to weed out pilot error, but I answered them honestly, and completely and returned the form to him.

I'm told that the form will be reviewed by a supervisor in the next few business days and I will be informed if they have "an offer" for me.

I'm hopeful. And was pleasantly surprised at the sympathetic ear. We'll see. Will let you know.

We are all very curious how this will turn out! I hope DJI will be sympathetic and treat their customer nicely. Even a small favour can lead to a big client in the future.

 

[Droid]

Boats have a lot of potential RF interference sources: badly maintained engine ignition systems, generators, badly maintained or damaged VHF radios and antennas, radar systems, long range WiFi installations, etc. I also wonder what effect a cluster of sailboat masts in a marina have as the are all perfect vertically polarized antennas that could create a multipath hell.

See this related incident:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8806

Hi Ianwood, I remember you replied to me a few days ago in a different thread which I cannot find right now. You asked me about my flyaway episode.
Let me assure you any kind of pilot error is ruled out as I'm a very careful pilot, have around smooth 100 flights with P2, I'm well aware of sun activity affecting GPS, magnetic interferences, humidity affecting electronics etc. I control calibration,props and battery conditions after every flying day (usually 3-5 batteries). I check connectors as well just to make sure vibrations didn't effect them over time.
This start was (luckily) in a field, nearest houses were about 250m away (village). No high voltage lines or wifi, no Phantom "traps".
After the standard startup procedure including calibration (I do it always regardless whether is it necessary or not, just to have the best stability and if I climb after start and realise something is not 100% I recalibrate) the P2 flys like usually does. I ascend to about 15m and P2 starts running away, full throttle to the right. RC doesn't do anything, I can only control throttle. I'm in a shock as I thought this couldn't ever happened to me. So I turn of the RC to get the immediate RTH. P2 starts coming back. Stops above, starts descending but right when I think everything is fine, starts running away again. This time I get no time to react, RC is off and P2 runs into trees some two hundred meters nearby.
I lose only 4 props so this is very lucky.

P2 shows no problem when connected via USB. I change the props. P2 looks perfect like the day 1st day I got it. Then my RC dies So I decided I will not even try it again and sell the bird. I'm building a better copter with parts I will trust more. I think this is a NAZA V2 problem and should be addressed by DJI (not sure how and if it is even possible at this point with so many units sold).

I understand crashing is a part of this hobby, we are still in dark ages of multicopters, hopefully it will develop quickly.

 

[Jaybee]

Finally got through to DJI support. Took me three days of calling, and a 40 minute wait, to get through. But, I got a rep named Anthony who was very helpful and sympathetic. After I told the story, his conclusion was that it sounded like mechanical failure or GPS interference. Without promising any specific remediation, he opened a ticket and sent me a spreadsheet to fill out, answering 16 specific questions about the event. The questions are obviously intended to weed out pilot error, but I answered them honestly, and completely and returned the form to him.

I'm told that the form will be reviewed by a supervisor in the next few business days and I will be informed if they have "an offer" for me.

I'm hopeful. And was pleasantly surprised at the sympathetic ear. We'll see. Will let you know.

Fingers crossed for you mate, but I got to say – this is exactly the same process I got.

The final response relayed from the director of DJI Europe was:

---
Hi Jamie,

I´m getting back to you with regards to your PHANTOM 2 Flyaway.

We have heard of some instances of what people are terming “Fly away”, causing a loss or a crash. The R&D team at DJI HQ have done extensive testing to determine if this is an issue with our product and cannot find any problem with the product. Most of the time the issue appears to be pilot orientation issues or some external influence such as interference with the GPS, Compass, or R/C system. All these unknown factors are outside the control of DJI, as we have no influence about the location where people fly our products.

I hope you´ll understand our position in this cases.
Thanks
---

Just don't get your hopes up.

 

[ghinson]

Well. It will be curious to see if I get the same answer. Hopes aren't that high (especially now). But my disappointment certainly will be greater if it seems like there is a form already written using the same language, just waiting to be sent to me.

I do see their point. I bet it probably is, most often, pilot error or RF interference. But, they have to recognize that there is such a thing as mechanical failure and faulty components. Pilot error is too easy a crutch for them.

It also hurts us (helps them) that they are, right now, about the only game in town. At least at this price/quality point. But that won't be the case for long.

 

[ghinson]

I got through to DJI North America, and their published hours are PST, but I'm not sure where they're located. Presumably CA.

The thing is, and this is something they have to recognize. If these $500-$3000 devices (depending on how you have it tricked out) are going to be prone to failure due to passing boats, or buildings with wifi, or cell antennae you cannot see, then they should not be allowed in the air in the first place.

I love that they are so easy to fly that they seem very safe. But if you can only fly one in the Moab Desert, with no clouds, and no wind, and no nearby hikers with 3G iPads, then, come on.

They will end up with a class action lawsuit or strict federal regulations that will put them out of business.

I wish I knew what the rate of device failure is, or what the life expectancy is of the internal components.

 

[GMANNZ]

Microsoft crashed several computers of mine over the years causing sh*tloads of grief, drama and cost ..... to me and clients !! .... I knew what I paid for as did half the planet .... million things could cause different issues and is very hard to pinpoint what sometimes went wrong, where, when ... ... cutting edge tech is cutting edge tech !!. its bound to have issues, if companies had to cover every single of a billion different scenarios in tech development you would still be sitting in front of a fire chewing on a bone instead of learning something new ..... lifes not easy ... but its not always someone elses fault, Ive seen so many stories about crashes, so called flyaways etc etc ... and returns that to me were obviously nothing to do with the equipment, but I am not saying it doesnt happen.

If I ran DJI I would do it like Mcrosoft ..... once its paid for your on your own, as how does the supplier or distributor know WHAT you DID ??? ... Through Trust !!???? ROFLOLOL to me if you buy something thats essentially a "flying toy camera" ... have problem,RTFM, if you still want help ... show me the money.

 

[JepePepe]

Curious as to what caused mine. Brand new unit. All flight checks done. Updated firmware. Hovered to about 15 feet then it left of its own accord with no control whatsoever. No ability to control or intervene. No return via GPS. In a large open football field with nothing nearby whatsoever to interfere. Open to suggestions

This is exactly the thing that keeps happening to a great many people. Apparently the build quality of Phantoms is truly of low quality. There are few units that operate OK but according to amount of violent uncontrolled flyaways at least 30-40% of the units are faulty.

Mine flew well for few times. Then it started to act up weird. Pilot error is ruled out as I could leave it hovering without touching controls. Location was remote field without any kind of interference. Clear sky and no wind at all.

Everything calibrated, updated and checked. Yes EVERYTHING. And all of a sudden out of the blue the P2 took a mind of its own. NOTICE it was hovering stationary, I was not touching the remote. No wind, Full GPS reception.

It kept going full speed in one direction (horinzontal) and then rotate turn direction make few circles.

I tried ATTI, no control whatsoever.

I tried RTH/failsafe -> P2 stopped to move for a while but did not return to homepoint.

At that time the only thing the unit responded to remote was the gimbal camera tilt.

After a while (a minute or so) it it took full speed left downwards and came down crashing full speed.

Broken shell, 4 props, legs, gimbal, HERO3 Black.

Even if it could be fixed to fly I dont think I am interested. It totally crap and dangerous as hell.
I am horrified to even think had it hit someone.

DJI should really quickly do something... because it will be sooner than later that someone get seriously hurt.

Especially as somethimes P2s decide to climb up above the clouds on their own decision. REALLY DANGEROUS!

 

[JepePepe]

There are few units that operate OK but according to amount of violent uncontrolled flyaways at least 30-40% of the units are faulty.

How many units have been sold?

Too many...

And you can simply find it out with google/youtube and the amount of flyaway videos.
And take into consideration that those that end up with damage to people/property are not likely
uploaded.

 

[freyjoel]

There are few units that operate OK but according to amount of violent uncontrolled flyaways at least 30-40% of the units are faulty.

You're saying you surveyed all P2 owners and found up to a 40% defect rate? Hard to take your comments seriously when you make a claim like this. When people fabricate stats like this it just strengthens my belief that the vast majority of P2 flyaways or crashes are operator error.

Like it or not the P2 is the best value at this price point. But hey, if you know of something else in this price range with the same capabilities and is guaranteed crash and flyaway proof I'm all ears.

 

[ianwood]

There are few units that operate OK but according to amount of violent uncontrolled flyaways at least 30-40% of the units are faulty.

How many units have been sold?

Too many...

And you can simply find it out with google/youtube and the amount of flyaway videos.
And take into consideration that those that end up with damage to people/property are not likely
uploaded.

No disrespect intended Jepepepe, but you need to do a lot more research to come to the conclusions that you have. The number of legitimate Phantom 2 flyways reported on this site can be counted on one hand. Not saying it can't happen but your estimate is way way off.

 

[freyjoel]

If you look up Phantom 2 crashes on youtube the vast majority of them are people actively flying their P2 into a tree, a building, or the ground. Another big cause looks like people descending too fast straight down and getting caught in their rotor wash. I've seen a bunch of videos of people doing this and then crashing. I almost did it myself when I first got my P2 and I learned to reduce my rate of descent to avoid this.

Next, there is the group of people who take off within 30 seconds of turning on the battery and don't give the P2 time to warm up and acquire satellite lock.

Let's then add in the people who are using "questionable" aftermarket parts like carbon fiber props or alternate landing gear that seem to have unpredictable effects on the flight characteristics.

Between lack of firmware updating, infrequent calibration, pilot induced previous crash damage, unfamiliarity with rotorwash, aftermarket parts, etc, etc....I still think the vast majority of "issues" are due to the operator.

 

[tawd77]

Curious as to what caused mine. Brand new unit. All flight checks done. Updated firmware. Hovered to about 15 feet then it left of its own accord with no control whatsoever. No ability to control or intervene. No return via GPS. In a large open football field with nothing nearby whatsoever to interfere. Open to suggestions

This is exactly the thing that keeps happening to a great many people. Apparently the build quality of Phantoms is truly of low quality. There are few units that operate OK but according to amount of violent uncontrolled flyaways at least 30-40% of the units are faulty.

Mine flew well for few times. Then it started to act up weird. Pilot error is ruled out as I could leave it hovering without touching controls. Location was remote field without any kind of interference. Clear sky and no wind at all.

Everything calibrated, updated and checked. Yes EVERYTHING. And all of a sudden out of the blue the P2 took a mind of its own. NOTICE it was hovering stationary, I was not touching the remote. No wind, Full GPS reception.

It kept going full speed in one direction (horinzontal) and then rotate turn direction make few circles.

I tried ATTI, no control whatsoever.

I tried RTH/failsafe -> P2 stopped to move for a while but did not return to homepoint.

At that time the only thing the unit responded to remote was the gimbal camera tilt.

After a while (a minute or so) it it took full speed left downwards and came down crashing full speed.

Broken shell, 4 props, legs, gimbal, HERO3 Black.

Even if it could be fixed to fly I dont think I am interested. It totally crap and dangerous as hell.
I am horrified to even think had it hit someone.

DJI should really quickly do something... because it will be sooner than later that someone get seriously hurt.

Especially as somethimes P2s decide to climb up above the clouds on their own decision. REALLY DANGEROUS!

Shoot me a text if you want to sell whats left of your phantom 2. The extra parts may be handy to have around 785 524 2three7one.

 

[JepePepe]

Sorry for my harsh text but it is scary when it happens. For no apparent reason. Never seen any other UAV do the same.
(that violently at least and without any reason at all)
Obviously I agree that Phantom concept is interesting and the tech seems great at fisrt sight. Thats why I bought one in the
first place.

To me it appears that there is something wrong in the manufacturing process which causes a lot of faulty units.
Ok I cant say for sure if its 30-40% but got to be somewhere in the ballpark.

Out of the batch of 8 Phantom 2 copters that the store that I bought mine 3 had faulty TX out of the box.
The gimbal lever pot was completely destoryed and did not function at all.

And so far I know that 2 of them have a mind of their own "flyaway" habits. If I can track down more who bought them
Ill ask if thy have it too.

I do realize that it uses 2.4GHz frequency but pardon me, saying that interefence is the issue (as DJI says) is almost ridiculous.
If it reacts so badly with wifi networks it cannot be flown practicly anywhere but in the desert... so what is it good for then?

So how come can every other RC copter can handle phones and wifis without getting bezerk