I am a new owner of a P3S. I live n Northern Idaho where the temps. have been (and will continue) too cold to fly.
My question is during this period (months) of inactivity, should I charge my RC and Quad regularly, even though I'm not using it?
My concern is overall battery life.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Do not keep charging them - they both have LiPo battery's and keeping them topped up is sure way to kill them off - nearly as bad as draining them down too low.
The flight battery has automatic discharge after so many days to storage charge. I think default is 10days and then it starts self discharge. Personally for me that is too long. I don't like LiPo being more than storage level for more than 3 days.
The controller will probably have no self discharge control but should be OK for a number of months. Switching on periodically will give indication of status. I think if the first LED is solid and second is blinking - then you are at safe storage level.
LiPo's are best stored at 25 - 50% charge level with preference around the 35% mark. I know this differs to DJI info of 50 - 60% but millions of LiPo users store at the 35 - 40% mark and have reliable long life.
Anyway - don't keep charging them up is my advice.
I am just the opposite. I don't like DJI self discharging its batteries. And I don't like having a storage charge to store them. Although I don't mind purchasing and having a storage charge on them. I know virtually every expert will tell you this is wrong and not recommended. But I learned this from my 20 years of using lithium batteries. And I very rarely have to replace any of my lithium batteries while others are replacing theirs 2 to 4 times more often than I do.
Although I discovered instead of putting a full charge on them, only putting say a 90% charge on them you can double their life. You just loose 10% of the battery capacity and most of the time that is fine by me. Also try to keep the battery temperature between freezing and no warmer than room temperature. Yes running in your Phantom, they will probably get warmer. But they are useless if you can't use them so during these conditions it is acceptable.
I also don't like DJI decision to program their batteries to be unusable after 200 recharges. Yes that is right. It doesn't matter if you baby them or use the hell out of them, they are programmed to die after 200 recharges anyway. The way I treat lithium batteries, they are still very capable after 200 recharges. But it doesn't matter, DJI wants you to buy new batteries if you want to continue to use your Phantom.
And if you want to understand lithium batteries at a college level education. I highly recommend this video by Professor Jeff Dahn.
I store my Phantom batteries like this. I recharge my remote controller when only one battery light is illuminated on the front of the remote controller.
I can't wait for my P3S controller battery to die. As once that happens, the chains will be taken off. As I'll just pull that 18650 battery out and install an 18650 battery holder and battery cover. That way I no longer have to wait for the controller to charge for hours and I can just swap out 18650s and go fly again. Zero wait time.
There are many online sites with technical information and guidance for use of LiPo battery's.
The standard Lithium Ion battery is actually not fully same as the Lithium Polymer (LiPo) even though they use similar electrolytic components. The LiPo has a greater risk of Internal Resistance increase and / or damage due to a) too high rate charging, b) too high rate discharging, c) storing at high or too low charged state.
Sites such as Battery University and many others all agree on one thing : do not store LiPo above a reasonable storage figure of 3.9v per cell.
The DJI flight battery is quoted as 15.2v - this is the nominal voltage and also actually a good storage figure as it equates to 3.8v over cell. Fully charged the pack reaches 17.4v as its a HV version if LiPo with full voltage rating if 4.35v per cell.
A lot of people have asked DJI about this 200 cycle life and so far I haven't read any definitive answer - but DJI have asked where people have got such info from ......
The battery does have a life indicator by pressing the On button for so many seconds. I would assume this is based on assessment of overall Internal Resistance. But there I am guessing.
I need to open my controller to check - but if the battery is 18650 firm - then the controller is not such an issue.
I do recc'd caution about the flight battery though - they are expensive and worth looking after. I have even bought a dedicated discharger for mine to avoid too long charged. To be able to manually decide battery state.
I know what Battery University says. But have Battery University ever done their own studies? I seriously doubt it. They only restate what the battery manufactures tell them. And battery manufactures really wants to sell you more batteries, think about it. I, on the other hand have studied them for the past 20+ years. And my batteries lasts much longer than their batteries do.
No the Battery Life indicator isn't based on anything intelligent like monitoring the internal resistance. As the DJI manual tells us what it is based on.
Checking the Battery Life (page 18)
The battery life indicates the number of cycles can be charged and discharged before it must be replaced... When the battery life reaches 0%, the Intelligent Flight Battery must be replaced.
You can calculate your own percent by subtracting 200 from the number of recharges. Interesting Litchi reports Battery Life in percentage. So while you are draining your batteries for storage, I know from my years of research I'll get double the flights from my batteries than you will. Many larger battery manufactures have designed their batteries to last over 2000 recharges nowadays (you watched that video right). DJI only uses older tech batteries which only spells more money for DJI.
Hi Bill - Battery University is only one of many sites that try to inform users.
My best source of info was a senior Tech of Mallory - who are major battery developers and manufacturers. His info was invaluable to me in battery care.
As to DJI and their battery's - HV LiPo's as they are using are a relatively recent addition to the RC world, so I find it hard to understand 'older tech' comment.
As to cycle and indication - I cannot find any reference to 200 cycles life except from non DJI sources, where people ask about it. The manual on page 18 as you quoted - read on and it shows a table - it is not in number of cycles, but in %. If life was in a definite number of cycles, why not put number of cycles ?
It would be great if someone could actually produce the actual evidence proving it.
Maybe someine who had had their Phantom long enough to 'test' life limits can check how many cycles via their app ? Wonder if anyone has more than 200 displayed ?
I'm not getting at you Bill, just want to know the truth.
I've been modeling for well over 50yrs, dabbling in electrics back in pioneering RC electric days of the 80's ... flying electrics seriously for many years. Many on my LiPo's are old and still in use. Only ones that failed are basically those used in such high demands as my record breakers and high speed EDF's or where connector failures occurred.
I find my observations and results of use agree with the vast majority where storage charge and use are as advised - safe charging / reasonable discharge and reduce to storage charge when not in use. I don't believe in following majority just because its majority.
I can't wait for my P3S controller battery to die. As once that happens, the chains will be taken off. As I'll just pull that 18650 battery out and install an 18650 battery holder and battery cover. That way I no longer have to wait for the controller to charge for hours and I can just swap out 18650s and go fly again. Zero wait time.
Hi Bill - Battery University is only one of many sites that try to inform users.
My best source of info was a senior Tech of Mallory - who are major battery developers and manufacturers. His info was invaluable to me in battery care.
As to DJI and their battery's - HV LiPo's as they are using are a recent
Yes I know. I know why they say what they say. It's because it was what they were taught. I get that. But once you learn to question everything and do your own studies, you learn they had it all wrong all along. It's not horribly wrong and it is ok to treat them that way for the most part. But you don't have to go by that either to get better or the same results. Yes I know HV Lipo's are kind of a new thing. It's just a different formula that was normally used before.
The question of replacing Controller battery - it has more than capacity as stock to do up to 20 flights when full charged.
The real limiting factor of the Controller battery is its charging regime via a USB socket. Many people are probably just charging from a PC lead or low output Mobile charger.
I would be cautious about pushing too many amps through such connection - but there are chargers of 2A out there which can feed such. I admit I have one !
Most chargers that use the USB for power are generally smart chargers. And from monitoring them in real time, they seem to test the USB power by slowly ramping up the current and monitoring the USB voltage. If the voltage starts to drop below 5 volts, it knows it can't draw that much current and backs off until it comes back to over 5v.
I believe I tested the controller and I gave it a 12A supply and then monitored how much it would draw. And I never got more than 1A draw. So giving it an 1A USB, it will charge in 2 1/2 hours. A PC or a 500ma USB it would take 5 hours.
But Bill that's because amps are based on what a unit wants to pull but volts are as is.
The only time that changes is when a supply is Constant Current vs Constant Voltage.
I think you are very lucky - if the 12A supply you had connected was Constant Current - you would have had a fried charge circuit or maybe even a fried battery as well !
Near all USB chargers are Constant Voltage for very good reason - to avoid damage to unit being charged by too much current.
A charger rated at 2A will charge faster than the 1A version - but not necessarily twice as fast - the deciding factor is the item being charged and its demand on the charger - as you found. Its not same as when using a LiPo charger as example where first phase is Constant Current and then final is Constant Voltage.
But Bill that's because amps are based on what a unit wants to pull but volts are as is.
The only time that changes is when a supply is Constant Current vs Constant Voltage.
I think you are very lucky - if the 12A supply you had connected was Constant Current - you would have had a fried charge circuit or maybe even a fried battery as well !
Near all USB chargers are Constant Voltage for very good reason - to avoid damage to unit being charged by too much current.
A charger rated at 2A will charge faster than the 1A version - but not necessarily twice as fast - the deciding factor is the item being charged and its demand on the charger - as you found. Its not same as when using a LiPo charger as example where first phase is Constant Current and then final is Constant Voltage.
Naw, not lucky... just test equipment to monitor what it is doing. Most chargers are like this. They work by CC first. So when I connect up 12A 5V supply to the controller USB. It will only draw the max current the charger can max out at and no more. In this case, just 1A. Even if I hook it up to a 100A 5V supply, the controller will still draw only 1A. Although if I connect it up to a 500ma 5V supply, it will only draw 500ma. Because if it tries to draw 1A, the voltage would drop probably down to like 3.5v or something. That is how the majority of these chargers work. The ones that doesn't work like this are dangerous. And there are a few designs out there like that. Then you get something like this or worse.
Well hold off a minute. The math isn't matching up. I use 200 recharges because that is the number that others are using. DJI says to see how much Battery Life left is by holding the power button for 5 seconds. The four LEDs coarsely gives you some idea how much more you have left. Although the Litchi App reports the Battery Life in percentage. And I am going by memory, but I could if sworn Litchi reported one of my batteries as...
11 Recharges and 98% Battery Life left.
If this is accurate, that means I should have 489 or more recharges left.
Well hold off a minute. The math isn't matching up. I use 200 recharges because that is the number that others are using. DJI says to see how much Battery Life left is by holding the power button for 5 seconds. The four LEDs coarsely gives you some idea how much more you have left. Although the Litchi App reports the Battery Life in percentage. And I am going by memory, but I could if sworn Litchi reported one of my batteries as...
11 Recharges and 98% Battery Life left.
If this is accurate, that means I should have 489 or more recharges left.
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