P3 sends data to FAA?

[mphsjeep]

Hi, I'm off to work at the FAA. I hate my job. I have been demoted to drone surveillance. It sucks. Can someone please fly over a nude beach or something PLEASE.
FYI, the only way we cannot see you is if you wear pastel clothes and wrap your left ear with HEAVY grade foil...right ear must have a Q tip sticking out with foil on the end.

 

[DiluxEdition]

Great idea, I wonder why there are no drone vids from nude beaches. They would all go viral...

 

[happydays]

Ben, I hate to rain on your parade. But I have keep quite a long time on this subject. Why? I really don't know. But your sync'd flight logs are accessible online. The logs even show the street name, city, house address, and I forget what else. I'm sure all files are uploaded whether they're sync'd or not.

So it all has to begin with something and the 1st thing that rattled me when I 1st discovered this was that my files were unknowingly accessible online. All I need is your SkyPixel.com login info to access it. The point is, it is upsetting we've never been told about it. It might be better if someone dug into it to see what all is taking place before any whistle blowing was to take place. I may clean this up after a short time? Also this can show you that you don't always know everything that goes on. That is not a directed statement, btw.

When we 1st got the P3 and had to have wifi access before the quad would even start told me there is going to be more to this then most may realize.

So overall I have a mixed opinion about this subject. I don't like not knowing everything that goes on with my equipment. Now on the otherside of this I have a theory that to appease the faa there was a safety feature wrote in the firmware on the newer products that alerts whatever should there be a drone flown somewhere it shouldn't be, by terrorist mostly.

I've just logged on to my DJI account and my skypixels account. I can't see the sync'd flight logs anywhere. Maybe I'm stupid but I can't see them...

 

[flyNfrank]

I've just logged on to my DJI account and my skypixels account. I can't see the sync'd flight logs anywhere. Maybe I'm stupid but I can't see them...

Go to either one and change your login info to something temporary and send it to me in a Conversation and we can check if there is any truth to what was said. I'll take a screen shot, and then you can change your login info back to what only you know it to be. Btw, I guess nobody has to believe it's real or not. You however will know if they appear as your flight files or not. And if it's not possible then nobody will have anything to worry about.

 

[flyNfrank]

Yeah it's possible to track any and all internet activity coming in and out of your connected devices. It's sophisticated network admin level stuff though and not something most people can easily do. But you can use tools to track all of the internet packet data, use sniffing tools, etc and so forth to see what information is being routed where.

So here is some data I was able to gather last night which shows 5 different IP Addresses the Pilot App reached out to for whatever reason I don't know.

I also noticed it opens a direct link with my Router, and opens a separate link to my Modem. It keeps these two links locked open the entire time the Pilot App it active, and uses the trailing word "Listening" showing the link is ready for whatever communication there could be.




IP Address............Country...........Region..............City.................ISP
216.58.216.78 United States California Mountain View Google Inc.

IP Address..........Country.............Region.......City..............ISP
54.230.89.26 United States Washington Seattle Amazon.com Inc

IP Address........Country..........Region......City...............ISP
23.23.77.11 United States Virginia Ashburn Amazon.com Inc.

IP Address......Country...............Region........City..........ISP
66.175.220.9 United States California Fremont Linode

IP Address..............Country..........Region......City...............ISP
107.22.224.245 United States Virginia Ashburn Amazon.com Inc.

IP Address...........Country.........Region......City..................ISP
54.83.40.211 United States Virginia Ashburn Amazon Technologies Inc.

 

[SENC]

I think you can only see/view the flight records through the DJI pilot app... I'm not aware of a way to view them online. Also remember that the app allows you to stream live video to youtube, a google company, so a google ip makes sense. Similarly the app includes access to an online store... decent odds they use an amazon platform, explaining the amazon ips.

I'm not arguing that data couldn't be accessed inappropriately nor that more transparency is warranted, but I doubt there is a nefarious plot and I don't see much risk in excess of what we experience by being online with our phones, tabs, and computers and the hundreds of other apps on them. From what I can see, the purposes for connectivity are to benefit the user, not harm them. If you don't need those benefits or feel the risk outweighs them, don't go online or switch to a 3rd party app.

 

[Timtro]

Couple guys at the field are all paranoid about their P3s sending data to the FAA.
Any thoughts?

Here's a thought: How about staying below 400 ft where you belong? Maybe even 200 ft where it's even safer and you can still actually see it? If you don't you might see a limit to 100 feet, restricted to only AMA parks, and an annual user fee for enforcement. That's what you're really asking for. Is that what you want?

My dad used to tell me that somebody died for every stop light because they don't install one until there is a serious accident. The message is this: if you don't want a flood of rules coming at you, stop waving the red flag at the bull (FAA, legislators, etc.). The people who don't like too many laws are often the same kind of people who create the problems that make the laws necessary. Unfortunately a lot of people can't think that far.

 

[Buk]

This is the same as the black box in my car. Nothing new in today's world.

 

[jlummel]

... The P3 won't let you fly in "no fly zones". If your P3 lets you fly there, it's safe to assume it's "legal". ...

That's not necessarily true. I live near an international airport (Kingman, Arizona, USA - KIGM) that is NOT on the DJI no-fly list. Couldn't tell you why, maybe it's because this airport mainly services cargo planes and flight training, and doesn't have passenger flights running out of it.

But it's still classified as an international airport and it would be VERY MUCH illegal to fly my Phantom into their restricted airspace such as over the runways or any adjacent areas.

So the idea that if the Phantom can fly in an area it's legal is a bad assumption to make. You need to check your maps and if you have a question then call and make sure. The map or the phone call is a LOT cheaper than a lawyer!

On the main topic of this thread, if your flight information is stored online 'in the cloud' AND someone gets the bright idea to classify your flight data as 'metadata', then there is already a precedence that the US government can access this data without a warrant - ref. cell phone data and the NSA. And as with the NSA and cell phone data, we would have no way of knowing this was happening without a whistle-blower.

This widespread access to personal data like phone records and flight information is not really that big of an issue, that is until this information is made readily available to local law enforcement. At the federal level, they are dealing with 'big picture' issues, while local law enforcement is more concerned with revenue generation (yes - making money), and that WILL lead to the types of abuses people are so worried about!

 

[flyNfrank]

I think you can only see/view the flight records through the DJI pilot app... I'm not aware of a way to view them online. Also remember that the app allows you to stream live video to youtube, a google company, so a google ip makes sense. Similarly the app includes access to an online store... decent odds they use an amazon platform, explaining the amazon ips.

I'm not arguing that data couldn't be accessed inappropriately nor that more transparency is warranted, but I doubt there is a nefarious plot and I don't see much risk in excess of what we experience by being online with our phones, tabs, and computers and the hundreds of other apps on them. From what I can see, the purposes for connectivity are to benefit the user, not harm them. If you don't need those benefits or feel the risk outweighs them, don't go online or switch to a 3rd party app.

Ok so member happydays sent me the login info as requested in case there were any doubters. I believe what is shown below is his sync'd flight files. I also downloaded the most recent flight which should be attached. It is a .txt and I did not see any need to convert it to show it as .csv . But I can if need be.

Everyone needs to know this is not hacking. I simply shows that your files are available to whom ever it is they want to have access to, and us to not know anything about it.

I have put a little thought into why you might want to access your files online. The only reason I can think that might be of a benefit would be if you were somewhere not around your pc or device used while flying. Say you're at work, or at a friends and want to download your files for whatever the reason. Outside of that, I can't think of any other reason. Just doesn't make sense we're not suppose to know about it.

 

[happydays]

@flyNfrank wow! Where did you get that from? I can't see it anywhere!

 

[flyNfrank]

Those are your flights, are they not?

 

[Accuracy One]

I turned off the wi-fi on my tablet and as long as it keeps flying as good as it does now, I may never sync to the internet again. If there is data out there they will store it and think about it later. My local dealer sent me a free app killer program to wipe all the garbage off my Android tablet to give maximum ram for my DJI pilots app. because I bought a clearance tablet with 1.2 gb ram which is marginal. I turned down the resolution from the drone to controller and it works perfectly. New tablet that only had 8 gb memory was really cheap $129 but I just use it for a viewer nothing is stored. I do not use it for anything but flying the P3 so turned off the wi-fi.

 

[ScottyT]

Ok so member happydays sent me the login info as requested in case their were any doubters. I believe what is shown below is his sync'd flight files. I also downloaded the most recent flight which should be attached. It is a .txt and I did not see any need to convert it to show it as .csv . But I can if need be.

Everyone needs to know this is not hacking. I simply shows that your files are available to whom ever it is they want to have access to, and us to not know anything about it.

Which site was that accessible from? I see you can select files - does it give you the ability to delete them via that portal?

 

[Timtro]

That's not necessarily true. I live near an international airport (Kingman, Arizona, USA - KIGM) that is NOT on the DJI no-fly list. Couldn't tell you why, maybe it's because this airport mainly services cargo planes and flight training, and doesn't have passenger flights running out of it./QUOTE]

Airmap.IO (web site) is an excellent tool for identifying restricted areas.

 

[Zigs]

I think we can assume the following:

1. Those that want to gather information (commercial or government) on your activities have the technological capability to do so . . . and probably are. It's more power, control and hopefully money for them.

2. Government (and companies) are basically incompetent and even if they held your information they wouldn't know what to do with it, except lose it to hackers who have more interest in exposing it than using it.

3. IF you become a TARGET for whatever reason, said incompetent government/company can make your life miserable . . . ranging from prosecution to spamming your life with useless crap.

Therefore, play nice boys and girls.

--zigs

 

[flyNfrank]

I turned off the wi-fi on my tablet and as long as it keeps flying as good as it does now, I may never sync to the internet again. If there is data out there they will store it and think about it later. My local dealer sent me a free app killer program to wipe all the garbage off my Android tablet to give maximum ram for my DJI pilots app. because I bought a clearance tablet with 1.2 gb ram which is marginal. I turned down the resolution from the drone to controller and it works perfectly. New tablet that only had 8 gb memory was really cheap $129 but I just use it for a viewer nothing is stored. I do not use it for anything but flying the P3 so turned off the wi-fi.

Unless someone is doing something they shouldn't be, I don't see where anyone has anything to worry about. My gut feeling is each of our flights are uploaded at each start up. I believe it explains the type of delay there is before things go live. Even if you were to have wifi shut off, it could be possible the system searches for any open wifi source such as from someones house in a neighborhood. Who knows without testing it could be required wifi be enabled before the motors start. We already know it has to be connected to the internet before it will start that 1st time.

I do think it is just a matter of time before the FAA implies some kind of fine on dji. They most likely feel like dji is the company that could absorb such a fine that would be a warning to all other drone manufacturers to build them closer to restrictions. The FAA had it documented they wanted Line Of Sight to be around 1500ft-1800ft distance by the eye only. Then dji rolls out the P3 advertized out of the box to be capable of 1.25 miles. Then the old dji returned and by the 1st couple of firmware updates they were changing 32 channels to 8 channels, and other changes to limit the quad. They gave a reason the change took place due to devices overheating. I had not heard of anyone with in our community here having any troubles, with anything for that matter, and prior to firmware updates. And should you check, when those updates took place, there was no info details explaining any amount of channels being removed from the software.

One more thing, in case some don't know, your flights are also saved in the device used to fly with. So, that we know of, each flight is saved in a .DAT file in your P3, in a .txt file in the device used, and saved in a .txt file up in a cloud online.

 

[jlummel]

... Unless someone is doing something they shouldn't be, I don't see where anyone has anything to worry about. ...

'Cause crap happens and mistakes get made!! Do you REALLY want to run the risk of getting fried every time something goes wrong? If your P3 does a flyaway, is that something YOU are doing that YOU shouldn't be doing? What if you loan out your P3 and they do something wrong (happens with cars all the time, yet you end up paying that red light ticket)?

Unlike MOST of the rest of the world, here in the US due process and protection from self-incrimination is enshrined in our founding documents. Those logs are not public logs and if anyone else (governments or otherwise) feels they need access to that information, they should have to deal with the due process and protection from self incrimination protections afforded us and get a court order showing just cause.

What this prevents is fishing expeditions. Say that you've made an unpopular opinion known in your local community and you have a position of power in that community. Finding dirt on you is easier if private flight information is made available publicly. For instance, you could be completely undermined when flight logs shows up that you were flying near a school while in session with the insinuation that you were snapping photos of the kids. You may have not actually DONE that, but now you are defending yourself against those damning flight logs. Will you go to jail? Maybe, if those doing the witch hunt are truly dedicated to your destruction!

That is merely an example of why EVERYONE should be worried about it, in the wrong hands the data can be abused in ways that you could never dream of!

Making private information available publicly is just a bad idea, yes even flight logs from your (high resolution camera toting) P3.

James

 

[dottat4]

Today I shot video of my new landscaping which included a Chinese flag in stone.

Upon return to my home I was immediately presented with an option to upgrade to firmware version 1.3.0. Since then I have practiced base station flights and my vps seems all good again.

Guess they do pick and choose favorites.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[PhantomFilters]

Is this because of the warning that the Pilot app comes with if setting maximum altitude higher than 400 feet?