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P2V+ - can I replace original GPS by Ublox M8N ???

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision + Help' started by djnikko, Aug 8, 2016.

  1. djnikko

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    Dear Phantom community,

    I am a new member on this forum. My name is Nicolas and I live in France.
    I have a Phantom 2 vision plus drone (without camera) and the PVT581 remote controller.

    I have a problem with the GPS (difficulty to find the position, only few seconds with the fixed gps and it loose the signal)
    I opened the P2V+ and release the gps, the "ceramic" antenna is broken.

    I have 2 possibilities to repair it:
    - buy just the antenna et solder it for 5$ (+20$ shipping)
    or
    - Change the gps module with a generic item.

    My question is, do you know if the ublox M8N is compatible with the Phantom 2 vision plus and the specific Naza inside?

    The Ublox M8N costs 25-30$ and i think it's better to replace the original by a new one.

    I find these on banggood and aliexpress:
    Ublox M8N GPS Compatible with DJI NAZA Lite V1 V2 Flight Controller Phantom 1 2 Vision+

    Buy Products Online from China Wholesalers at Aliexpress.com

    Or do you know another gps compatible with P2V+ ?

    Thanks in advance for your responses

    Regards

    Nicolas
     
  2. J Dot

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    Hello Nicolas
    That is for naza LITE, p2v uses naza-M, not sure if it will work? Plus a member here tried some aftermarket GPS pucks, and had some crashes costing him hundreds.

    Honestly
    Get the replacement ceramic antenna, and solder it on, I do it all the time, super easy. Plus since you are doing it anyway, you might want to go for the 4mm upgrade ( stronger signals ) and if you look on eBay, a guy in UK makes an insert called a DJI GPS booster, this will help find a few extra sats, when inserted.

    Upgrade antenna
    CGGP.25.4.A.02
    4mm ceramic patch antenna, same specs as stock.

    You'll have to search for booster, wish you were closer, I have 30-35 extra 2mm antennas ( I do the upgrade CONSTANTLY ) and around 10-12 4mm antennas left, I'd give you a couple for free.
    I'm in the USA. Florida!

    J Dot
    :cool:

    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg

    Hope this helps!
    Take care, good luck, Fly Safe!
     
    dirkclod likes this.
  3. Mako79

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    Should work. I cant find the thread but it was done by a forum member. EDIT FOUND Phantom 2 GPS conversion to Puck??
    My memory is a little appalling but I recall DJI 'borrowing' the antenna coding from rcgroups. I think the Phantoms OEM chip is an 8bit 6N.
    I was looking into the M8N upgrade but got a P3 instead :)
    The M8N can do glonass (plus the new sats) but I think the ceramic antenna supplied only does GPS frequency. I would love to see someone do the mod and change it to a bigger ceramic puck that picks up all other sats.
    You can mod the M8N to fit inside the Phantom by shaving the shell a little.
    Also, get the M8N with the built in compass.
     
    #3 Mako79, Aug 8, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
  4. djnikko

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    Hello J Dot & Mako79,

    Many thanks for your helps.

    Effectively solder a new upgraded 4mm antenna is a good choice if I find a website that sells the antenna without huge postage.
    I find antenna for ~5$ but with 20$ for shipping cost, too expensive for a small part. I live in France, not in a desert :) > Google is my friend

    I will check the buzzcam GPS booster, good idea.

    Otherwise, I think the Naza model inside the P2V+ is the NAZA-M V2 with specific firmware.
    I used the "Phantom assistant software" to put the P2V+ in Naza-M mode for flying (not in Phantom mode for beginner).

    The original antenna use the Ublox NEO-6Q chip. And the "generic" GPS module that I have found on internet are normally compatible with DJI NAZA LITE/V1/V2 and have the new Ublox chip NEO-M8N (more accurate). I continue to investigate this "generic GPS" option to find informations about this mod.

    Here the pics of my GPS, as you can see, antenna is broken and the little metalic cover on the chip is removed.
    According to the datasheet, this metallic part is not an active item, Do you know if I can reglue them or I need to solder them?

    Thanks

    Nicolas
     

    Attached Files:

  5. pietpukje

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    try banggood for the antenna it cost €1,52 and free shipping to Holland so i expect it is the same for france.
    For the metalic cover, solder it back, its better
     
  6. J Dot

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    Yes solder, but be extremely careful!
    The green circles are the 6 solder joints, BE CAREFUL, the red arrows show tons of contact points, there is a small gap between cover and pins, do not let anything touch these pins, or it will short out.
    image.jpeg

    Hope this helps!

    J Dot
    :cool:
     
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  7. djnikko

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    Dear pietpukje, I don't find the 4mm antenna on banggood. Do you have a link?

    Jerry D, I don't know if you have the same problem in USA but finding the 4mm antenna without expensive shipping costs is very difficult even in Asian website.
    I only find 1 uk website that sell combo 4mm antenna and the GPS booster for £18.95 GBP (~21€): blckops

    Thanks for your help
     
  8. J Dot

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    Yeah
    Here in USA we use 1 of 3, ( maybe others? ) but these 3 are by far the most popular. Plus the more units you buy, the cheaper per unit. 1 is say $5 us, but if you buy 5 they are $4.30 each, 10 $4 each and so on( just guessing the figures as an example )
    But the 3 are as follows:
    #1 DIGIKEY
    #2 Mouser
    #3 Newark/New element
    All .com above.

    But not sure shipping to you, just an option, if you pay shipping, I can send you one of each ( 2mm stock, and 4mm upgrade ) antennas are free, but not sure the ship? But id be glad to help.

    J Dot
    :cool:
     
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  9. pietpukje

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    #9 pietpukje, Aug 11, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
  10. djnikko

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    Hello everyone,

    Dear J Dot, thanks for your proposition, I keep it in my mind, it may be apossibility.
    I don't know the costs shipping from USA to France. Perhaps not expensive (normal sending, not fast).

    I found "mouser.fr" and "digikey.fr" sites in France but the shipping cost is too expensive for one item.

    Actually I bought the 4mm antenna on banggood to test it (1.5€ shipping included, it's not expensive)(Thanks Pietpukje for the link).
    When I will receive it, I will tell you if antenna have good quality and if it works well.

    Thank you for your help.

    Nico
     
    J Dot likes this.
  11. shade emry

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    Here, ill show you what i did. the original DJI puck is capable of holding the 8m, the reason for this is that the 8m is fully backwards compatible with any previous revisions. the datasheets indicate this for the chip. concerning the antenna(i upgraded it) , glonaas, bedu,gps and is GALILEO ready, which is accurate to 1cm..

    An 8 dollar ceramic antenna also is considerably better.

    Now theirs a cheap Chinese puck that has 2 saw filters built into the circuit that helps filter out "phantom" effects from buildings etc. cb's etc. I know the video is lengthy but i made it for these exact questions.

    i show you in this video the data sheets, design etc.


    Now i talk about dead reckoning alot here, plus i was up for 29 hours, so pardon some mis verbiage.


    Link for GPS puck used in video:
    NEO-M8N GPS & Compass Support DJI Naza-M V2/Lite Flight Controller Compatible se
    EDIT::


    Original ant is made by Abracon LLC, link is here:

    Description: 1.575GHz GPS Ceramic Patch RF Antenna 1.575GHz ~ 1.579GHz Pin Adhesive

    Datasheet: http://www.abracon.com/patchantenna/APAE1575R1540AZDB2F-T.pdf

    BUY: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/abracon-llc/APAE1575R1540AZDB2F-T/535-11948-ND/3727164



    ANT data sheet of upgraded ant (6.50 mm)

    Taoglas Surpases mil spec type F and is used in a HUGE variety of appplications. one of the best ant manufactures in the world.

    Description:1.56GHz, 1.575GHz, 1.602GHz Beidou, GLONASS, GPS Ceramic Patch RF Antenna 1.533GHz ~ 1.589GHz, 1.547GHz ~ 1.603GHz, 1.574GHz ~ 1.63GHz 4.5dBi, 3dBi, 4.5dBi Solder Adhesive

    Datasheet: https://www.taoglas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/CGGBP.35.6.A.02.pdf

    Buy: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/rf-if-and-rfid/rf-antennas/3540022?k=CGGBP.35.6.A.02


    ANT data sheet of upgraded ant (4mm )
    (has less dbi gain, aka, not as good as the 6.50 mm)


    Taoglas Surpases mil spec type F and is used in a HUGE variety of appplications. one of the best ant manufactures in the world.

    Description: 1.56GHz, 1.575GHz, 1.602GHz Beidou, GLONASS, GPS Ceramic Patch RF Antenna 1548.098MHz ~ 1574.098MHz, 1562.42MHz ~ 1588.42MHz, 1.589GHz ~ 1.615GHz 3dBi, 2dBi, 4dBi Solder Connector Mount

    Datasheet: http://taoglas.com/images/product_images/original_images/CGGBP.18.4.A.02.pdf


    Buy: http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Note the frequencies the upgraded ant obtains..the neo8m can work with these plus more over the neo6.

    Neo6 datasheet: https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/products/documents/NEO-6_DataSheet_(GPS.G6-HW-09005).pdf?utm_source=en/images/downloads/Product_Docs/NEO-6_DataSheet_(GPS.G6-HW-09005).pdf

    Neo 8 Datasheet: https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/NEO-M8_DataSheet_(UBX-13003366).pdf
     
    #11 shade emry, Sep 7, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  12. shade emry

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    An extract of the neo 8 from the data sheet. THIS IS ASSUMING YOU USE AN UPGRADED ANT. the stock ant CANNOT PICKUP ANY OTHER SAT CONSTELATIONS OTHER THEN GPS, their are 5 others...use them for 7 bucks :)

    1.1 Overview The NEO-M8 series of standalone concurrent GNSS modules is built on the exceptional performance of the u-blox M8 GNSS (GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou, QZSS, SBAS and Galileo-ready1 ) engine in the industry proven NEO form factor. The NEO-M8 series provides high sensitivity and minimal acquisition times while maintaining low system power. The NEO-M8M is optimized for cost sensitive applications, while NEO-M8N/M8Q provides best performance and easier RF integration. The NEO form factor allows easy migration from previous NEO generations. Sophisticated RF-architecture and interference suppression ensure maximum performance even in GNSS-hostile environments. The NEO-M8 series combines a high level of robustness and integration capability with flexible connectivity options. The future-proof NEO-M8N includes an internal Flash that allows simple firmware upgrades for supporting additional GNSS systems. This makes NEO-M8 perfectly suited to industrial and automotive applications. The DDC (I 2C compatible) interface provides connectivity and enables synergies with most u-blox cellular modules. For RF optimization the NEO-M8N/M8Q features an additional front-end LNA for easier antenna integration and a front-end SAW filter for increased jamming immunity. u-blox M8 modules use GNSS chips qualified according to AEC-Q100, are manufactured in ISO/TS 16949 certified sites, and fully tested on a system level. Qualification tests are performed as stipulated in the ISO16750 standard: “Road vehicles – Environmental conditions and testing for electrical and electronic equipment”. u-blox’ AssistNow Assistance supply aiding information, such as ephemeris, almanac, rough last position and time, reduce the time to first fix significantly and improve the acquisition sensitivity. AssistNow data are with u-blox M8 supporting both GPS and GLONASS constellation for faster acquisition than a GPS-only assistance. The extended validity of AssistNow Offline data (up to 35 days) and AssistNow Autonomous data (up to 6 days) provide faster acquisition after long off time.
     
  13. shade emry

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    The different Satellite Constellations (the neo-8mn can pick up all of these, use an antenna so the chip can as well, otherwise you restrict the chip to GPS only)


    1.5 GNSS


    The NEO-M8 GNSS modules are concurrent GNSS receivers and can receive and track multiple GNSS systems (e.g. GPS, GLONASS, Galileo-ready, BeiDou and QZSS signals). Because of the dual-frequency RF front-end architecture, two of the three signals (GPS L1C/A, GLONASS L1OF and BeiDou B1) can be received and processed concurrently. By default the M8 receivers are configured for concurrent GPS (includes SBAS and QZSS) and GLONASS reception. If power consumption is a key factor, then the receiver should be configured for single GNSS operation using either GPS or GLONASS or BeiDou and disabling QZSS and SBAS. Galileo, QZSS and SBAS share the same frequency band as GPS and can always be processed in conjunction with GPS.

    1.5.1 GPS

    The NEO-M8 positioning modules are designed to receive and track the L1C/A signals provided at 1575.42 MHz by the Global Positioning System (GPS). The NEO-M8 series can receive and process GPS concurrently with GLONASS or BeiDou.

    1.5.2 GLONASS


    The NEO-M8 modules can receive and process GLONASS concurrently with GPS or BeiDou. The Russian GLONASS satellite system is an alternative system to the US-based Global Positioning System (GPS). u-blox NEO-M8 positioning modules are designed to receive and track the L1OF signals GLONASS provides at 1602 MHz + k*562.5 kHz, where k is the satellite’s frequency channel number (k = –7,..., 5, 6). The ability to receive and track GLONASS L1OF satellite signals allows design of GLONASS receivers where required by regulations. To take advantage of GPS and GLONASS, dedicated hardware preparation must be made during the design-in phase. See the NEO-M8 Hardware Integration Manual [1] for u-blox design recommendations.

    1.5.3 BeiDou

    The NEO-M8 modules can receive and process BeiDou concurrently with GPS or GLONASS. u-blox NEO-M8 positioning modules are designed to receive and track the B1 signals provided at 1561.098 MHz by the BeiDou Navigation Satellite System. The ability to receive and track BeiDou B1 satellite signals in conjunction with GPS results in higher coverage, improved reliability and better accuracy. By the end of 2013 BeiDou is not fully operational and provides regional coverage only. Global coverage is scheduled for 2020


    1.5.4 Galileo

    The NEO-M8N positioning module is ready to receive and track GPS and Galileo signals concurrently, enhancing accuracy and coverage. When Galileo E1B/C signals become available, u-blox NEO-M8N receiver equipped with an SQI flash memory device will be capable of receiving and processing them via a firmware update.

    1.5.5 QZSS

    The Quasi-Zenith Satellite System (QZSS) is a regional navigation satellite system that transmits additional GPS L1C/A signals for the Pacific region covering Japan and Australia. NEO-M8 series positioning modules are able to receive and track these signals concurrently with GPS signals, resulting in better availability especially under bad signal conditions, e.g. in urban canyons. The L1-SAIF signal provided by QZSS is not supported.
     
  14. Mako79

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    Results on your p2??
    How many sats? How quick was the cold lock? How quick is the hot lock??
    How stable and accurate is the P2??
     
  15. driehl

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    Ive done it and its great.. big improvement over stock! Much faster sat. Lock.

    Sent from my SM-G935F using PhantomPilots mobile app
     
  16. shade emry

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    I just got 16 on mine. no special em shield,cold lock is guaranteed at 30 seconds. hot lock about 5-10, worse case scenario. VERY STABLE. ill show you how stable....
     
  17. shade emry

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  18. djnikko

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    Dear phantom pilots,

    I soldered the new 4mm antenna from banggood, no problems It work's fine but for doing good, I try to soldered the little steel plate that had removed > big mistake from me > it doesn't work now.
    Does anyone have an old GPS works but with the broken antenna?