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Oh dear, it looks like I'm going LEGIT!!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ezookiel, Feb 9, 2015.

  1. Ezookiel

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    Here in Australia, we have some rules specified by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (I guess like the FAA in the US), which technically restricts a lot of what you can and can't do with a UAV.
    Not within 5.5kms of an airport, not over 123 metres, not within 30m of people, not over a sportsfield while a game is in progress, not in populated areas, etc etc etc.
    The big one is NO COMMERCIAL USE, so you can't sell a photo, or do video for someone, or do anything that might be deemed commercial.
    UNLESS...
    You have a Remotely Piloted Aircraft Certificate, which allows you to fly one for someone who is doing it commercially, and THEY have to have UAV Operator's Certification for their business.

    I enrolled today to do a combined course, the RPC to fly it legally, and the UOC to run a business flying it for myself.

    It looks like I'm going legit!!!

    No idea how I'll afford the liability insurance cover required before they'll issue the final UOC, but you sure won't get insurance without the RPC and UOC either, so I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and also start earning some kind of money from it as well.

    Big expenses ahead for me. But it's a pretty newly emerging field, so there's possibly an advantage to being legit early on.

    Of course, it's not just the commercial use that changes with these qualifications, it means you can fly in far more places.
     
  2. hotstink626

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    Hi ezookiel,
    You do know there is currently legislation being reviewed by casa that would release the current commercial use of sub 3kg drones such as a phantom for just requiring a permit such as is in Canada so what will this mean if this goes through ? Well maybe you'll have a useless certificate unless your in specific uav market where your rpa and oc will come into its own. So if its going to be real estate bet you $10 bucks that an agent will just do it for themselves and pass a fee on to there customer because the law will allow them to do it .. as there's plenty at the moment flanty the law and casa know this but can't police it .. they have been quoted themselves saying this and So the only thing they can do now is try and manage it and collect a few bucks doing it .. as for insurance do you know anyone in Australia that just covers liability for drone use ?
     
  3. Meta4

    Meta4 Moderator
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    Hotstink .. do you have any recent info from CASA about how they are going with the sub 2kg rule?
    I heard second hand a while back that it might be March (it was originally going to be last year) but nothing definite.
    I doubt that many real estate agents would attempt drone photography themselves.
    Most understand the importance of good photography to bring in buyers and even though everyone has a camera most agents use proper photographers to get good pix. Drone pix are quite a bit harder to do well.
     
  4. hotstink626

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    I did real estate photography for 7 years believe me there not dumb as soon as digital cameras started to get easier and better I started to lose work but they were still selling the professional photography service to there customers. So I have still a few old real estate photography mates around one use to do pole photos so you could see the whole property which was good for development all legal you don't need a license or permit to put a camera on pole. Anyway he was saying all the new young agents are using phantom vision 2 and there iphones to do the same photo's he asked one if it was legal to do that the answer the agent gave him " what the hell do I know I'm a real estate agent not an airline pilot " rest my case the technology is here and like it or not if you think your the only one in your neighborhood with a phantom or a drone think again with over 500 units being sold weekly in Australia I'm not all are being used to do figure 8s in the local park..
     
  5. hotstink626

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  6. Ezookiel

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    "...which cost about $8000.."
    Where did they buy their drones? My P2 cost WAY less than that.
     
  7. enseth

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    During a recent UAV training course I was told that the changes to CASA legislation may now be delayed to 2016, which is a long way past the original date of April 2015. Bear in mind that this is just hearsay.

    I've completed my RPAS etc at some cost to myself but in all honesty I think the commercial opportunities for UAV work in Australia is somewhat limited. Certainly their are opportunities available for some good pocket money, particularly if you can get a regular gig with a mining client or survey work, but as for a full time job, I think not.
     
  8. hotstink626

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    So apart from the guys training people for these licences are they also linked with any employment opportunities .. That's what I'd be asking you want some sort of return on investment. Like going for a heavy vehicle licence you know the work is our there and some of these training place's help you find work with employers. So I'm thinking isn't this guy training me just going to get a gig with the mines over me if a mine company was looking for those kind of people ?
     
  9. Meta4

    Meta4 Moderator
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    I'd be surprised if any training organisation would find you work.
    They have a cushy gig charging thousands to the hopefuls wanting to work legally.
    That and a few flying jobs when they can get one.
    Here's a list of 200 so far that CASA has approved
    http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?W ... =PC_100959
    That's already 200 licensed operators looking for work and more in the pipeline.
    This list has been growing quite fast. About 100 in the last 6 months.
    The more that pay ~$10K or so to get legal, the more opposition there will be to <2kg commercial when/if CASA ever get around to approving.
     
  10. Narrator

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    I spoke with CASA yesterday, asking details about obtaining an OC so I can legally work, self-employed. (They already have my application for a CC.) They said it will cost around $3,500 and it will take 6 months to reach the top of the pile, then about a month to process.

    OC=Operator's Certificate, required to operate as business using UAV's (OC cost is independent of weight class)
    CC=Controller's Certificate, required to fly under an OC

    All of which sparked my thread on having commercial partners
     
  11. Meta4

    Meta4 Moderator
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    Just tried asking CASA via their online enquiry form and got this back within 10 mins ...
    Nothing there about 2016 - but nothing definite either.
     
  12. Narrator

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    The guy I spoke to yesterday (who is apparently CASA's goto man for UAV's) said that "they" (I assume gov't) promised the changes 6 months ago. In other words, how long is a piece of string.
     
  13. hotstink626

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    They need to release some thing soon as people are not waiting so legal or not they are taking the risks of hiring people that have a drone For work because they can get someone cheap or do it themselves. Only the other week apparently the first guy was fined for miss use of a drone in australia and not for commercial work but for flying near people in a park and this only after he got dobbed in time after time.
    We all know licenced or not your not allowed to this as well as some other things a oc or cc is not a licence for you fly free for all.
    The basic laws apply to everyone .
     
  14. Ezookiel

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    The training company said bare minimum 5 months for CASA to process the OC, so sounds about right. Sure wouldn't be expecting to start this business any time soon, though I'm still quite unsure about that whole side of things - I have a very good very well paid government job. Starting a business isn't necessarily part of my plans, but it seemed wise to do both at the same time.
     
  15. morph000

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    Orstralia is our norf island !
    Was looking at doing the Nowra NSW course for around $5k I saw on the riseabove site
    http://www.riseabove.com.au/services/
    Worth reading too: http://www.rpastraining.com.au/casr-101 ... or-illegal

    Know about the proposed CASA sub 2kg changes but in view of all the wallies out there I'd say they'd tighten up rather than relax the regs.
    I'd sooner wait and see what CASA do before spending the money on a course for it may be a waste of money if they restrict drones too much.
    I don't know why anyone thinks there wouldn't be any money in a commercial operation. You just need some business acumen and entrepreneurial ability...
     
  16. Narrator

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    Add $3,500 to CASA on top of that to get your OC (if that's where you're going).
    The RPAS courses generally get you the theory and hours for your CC.

    Some will help with the paperwork for OC.
    Some are throwing in a Phantom for the $5k
    Others are offering RPAS for less.

    I was lucky. Having my pilot's license, it only cost me $250 to get my manufacturer's certificate ('type' cert).
    Add $160 to CASA to apply for the CC.
    OC is next... the expensive bit.
     
  17. Ezookiel

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    I agree. They'll only find more and more uses for these things. I can't see them being able to restrict them out of the market.
    The ABC (the Australian one, not the American one) used them to film the New Years Eve fireworks over Sydney harbour. Took a leaf out of the book of the person that first flew one into the fireworks. Someone had to be at the controls somewhere. And with litigation being a favourite pastime, you can be that person had all the right qualifications. TV news are using them. Movie makers are using them. There has to be a call for good pilots, especially ones with a good eye for photography and videography, and considering it's thousands a day less than a real helicopter, and can go more places, why wouldn't they be popular with professional film, tv, and movie companies. Besides, these can go places and pull off stunts no real chopper could ever do. A recent article on a famous old farm house used on a music album cover, was filmed using a drone small enough to fly around inside the building deemed too unsafe to enter. Not for a drone it's not.
    I'm also booking in with RPAS for the Nowra (Kiama) one. But I've got to wait to see if my work will pay the cost first. I'd not put that kind of money up myself just yet.
     
  18. hotstink626

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    You'll find that most film maker's have two operators 1 to fly 1 to film now if you look on casa register I don't see any Australian major tv network on there . Either they themselves are flying illegal eg commercial use or they are hiring outside contractors ... so here begs the questions if you are that contractor and casa change the rules and allow Ray Martin to fly his phantom for a doco on fruit bats . Why would the major networks hire a drone operator when they just send ray and his camera crew off to a dji training day were they will learn how to fly use way points set out a root on where to go press start film and then land batta bing batta boom . The drone technology is moving so fast that even an idiot in the next few years will be able to fly film good footage and not pay and arm a leg or a dji inspire for it .. forgive me if I sound like a wet blanket but I can't see were the money is in this growing industry apart from the people making a shjt load on over paid licenses to fly a toy. And the guys inventing them be easier to fly.
     
  19. hotstink626

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  20. Meta4

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    Why? Because they want to get good images created by good camera operators.
    Just like there is a whole industry supplying real estate agents with quality photography.
    DJI can perfect their flying cameras but that still won't make them take good video.
    Just the same way you can take Nikon's or Canon's best SLR and their best lenses and still take bad photos.
    There is a lot of skill and art involved in creating great photos and videos and people pay for quality content.

    The TV networks contract in experienced professionals when they need flying cameras because getting results with these things is an order of magnitude beyond using a camera on the ground. Despite technological advances it still takes an expert to get really good results.