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Near IR Conversion?

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision Discussion' started by ksbio, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. ksbio

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    I am looking to get a couple P2V to help me with some vegetation surveys (hopefully) using near IR to help distinguish between water and vegetation more easily. Does anyone have any experience with converting the P2V to IR (I realize not full IR), or any leads on where to find a kit that might work? My budget will allow me to purchase the quads, but a real IR is way past my limit.
     
  2. Pull_Up

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  3. LandYachtMedia

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    A filter like that is what you would use with a film camera and IR film to increase the contrast of your IR images. This won't work with a solid state camera until its internal IR filter is removed.

    Removing the internal filer may or may not be practical depending on how IR rejection was implemented. If its an actual filter in front of the imager it is possible to remove it. If it is built into the microlens of the sensor it is not practical to remove it.
     
  4. ResevorDG

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    I used http://www.kolarivision.com to convert my Canon 40D into 720nm+ near field IR.
    I am sure they can convert the Phantom camera if you like BUT....
    To convert a camera permanently changes it. They remove the filter that blocks near IR and UV and replace it with a filter of your choice. This filter is on the surface of the ccd or cmos chip so this work should be done in a clean room.

    If I were you I would get a small IR camera and mount it to the Phantom and have that record your video to watch later. Use the FC200 as normal.
    Here is a video where a guy did just that with a go pro to see the difference in quality.

    http://youtu.be/Ny3-AwvmRtw
     
  5. FSJ Guy

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    X2. And even if there WAS an IR filter, I'm not sure how you'd remove it and re-install the lens housing over the image sensor.

    Try aiming your TV remote control at the camera (while it's on, of course!). See if you can see the IR emitter or not. That would be a start.
     
  6. ResevorDG

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    This is good point. If this camera does not have an IR filter installed than it will be possible to buy a filter that goes in front of the lens to block all visible and UV light.

    You can test this on your own. Do just was FSJ Guy said. Point your TV remote at the camera and send some commands. If the IR light on the remote can be seen by camera, than the camera does not have an IR filter an so you can use a filter designed to be used for IR film photography to do what you want. (Note you cannot see this light with your eyes if you do see a light than you are either looking at the wrong part of the remote, or you are a medical marvel.)

    If you can use visible light cut off filter on the P2V, your exposure will be way off, you can compensate for with the "AE" (auto exposure) bias setting in the camera. Turn that up or down as necessary.
    I think you are still better off fixing a 2nd camera dedicated to near field IR to your drone.

    For more on IR Photography check out the 2nd half of chapter 8 of my book, Mastering Digital Photography - http://amzn.com/B00D666D7O
     
  7. ResevorDG

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    I just tested and can confirm that the FC200 camera does indeed allow at least some IR light to hit the image sensor.

    If you use this filter it will block any light below 720nm and allow all light above 720nm to pass through.
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/116763-REG/Hoya_B46RM72_46mm_RM72_Infrared_Glass.html

    I would guess the FC200 camera is light sensitive all the way 1200nm but without testing I can't say for sure.
    I would also guess that your image will be under exposed by as much a 2 stops. (perhaps more)

    Do some looking you may find a filter for cheaper than the Hoya, but Hoya is good brand.

    I can't wait to see some sample photos. I may just have to pick up a filter myself.


    [​IMG]
    Screen Shot 2014-02-10 at 7.59.34 PM by resevordg, on Flickr
     
  8. ResevorDG

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    Unrelated to making an IR image -
    My test also indicates that an IR UV cut filter (like a uv haze) will also likely help you produce clearer images with your camera.
    So a UV haze in this case does more than just protect the lens.
     
  9. ResevorDG

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    Filters are cheaper from Amazon.
    http://amzn.com/B000NK74M4
    Again. I cannot guarantee this do the job you need. But the FC200 does indeed allow some IR to pass through so this could work for you!

    I think I am going to buy this just to play around.
     
  10. Pull_Up

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    Really interesting! Thanks for the experiments on this - it'll be fascinating to see some sample shots with a lens filter to see exactly what it can and can't do.
     
  11. ksbio

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    Thanks for the input - Was hoping it was possible with the Vision, but will probably have to look for a second camera and hopefully stay within budget. When I get my units (hopefully soon) I'll play around some.
     
  12. ksbio

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    If you do happen to buy it - please update this thread if it works. Interesting to see that some IR light gets through to the camera, I don't need full IR for what I am doing, so if a filter works that would be ideal. Can you attach filters to the DJI camera, or does it require some tinkering?
     
  13. Pull_Up

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    Filter kit is available from DJI as an official spare to fit 46mm lens filters. Video of it here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNzwZ9oKezo

    Seems to be sold out in most places for the moment, though... Costs around £12 or equivalent.
     
  14. ksbio

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    Kind of in this same vane.. Is it possible for this camera to face straight down?
     
  15. ResevorDG

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    With factory settings no, close but no. With some personal modifications to the shock mount system yes. Or with an aftermarket Gimbal yes.
    I just ordered this. It will let me point strait down. http://www.rotorpixel.com
     
  16. ResevorDG

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    Pull_Up. I got lucky and found one on your side of the pond. It is on its way to the west side the USA right now. It should be here soon. I don't think it comes with any filters though does it?
     
  17. ksbio

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    Do you have a link to a tutorial about this? Probably won't be able to buy a new gimbal right away
     
  18. ResevorDG

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    I don't know of anyone who has actually done it, but if you lower the front of the camera and not the back you will be able to look exactly down with out a problem.

    If I were to do this, I would unscrew the mounting plate that attaches to the phantom. Make a wedge out something light like balsa wood. Then reattach the mounting plate to the phantom with the wedge in-between the phantom and the camera mount. That way the shock system still functions as normal.

    You would only need to add about 35 degrees of tilt to get it pointed exactly down. So I would cut at 40 degrees so you have extra room.

    You may also want to look into longer legs so the camera does not hit the ground. Or make sure the camera is in the full up position when you land. I have seen some on ebay for about $15.

    Then of course there is this.... .NO mods needed. Just attach this to the DJI filter adaptor kit that Pull_Up linked to above
    http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Righ...id=1392143290&sr=8-1&keywords=46mm+spy+filter
     
  19. Pull_Up

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    No, you need to provide your own 46mm filters.
     
  20. ResevorDG

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    :idea: Amazon sells these with Amazon Prime - Great return policy! (so if it does not work...)

    I'm buying one right now, I will let you all know how it compares to my DSLR with a 720nm conversion.
    I just have to wait until my filter kit comes in the mail all the way from the co.uk part of the world.
    :arrow: Photos to come soon.
    My guess is that it will work but the ISO will have to be high so there will be noise in the image. I am just guessing though.


    It would appear that BuzzFlyer.co.uk does not issue a tracking number so it could be a while. It shipped on the 5th.