NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... thoughts

[IflyinWY]

Does anyone have a "for sure" answer about whether the location of the NAZA V2 module is "where it has to be"?
It's in my way and I'd like to move it aft about 1/2".

There also seems to be a lot of wasted space taken up by the circuit board.
Is there a smaller one out there?

I can see where a transmitter and camera could fit inside my FC40 with ease if I could relocate and reduce the size of some of this clutter. Has anyone else thought about or tackled this issue?

Thanks,

 

[discv]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

From my experience of building F450/F550 craft, everything indicates that the Naza should be positioned at the centre.

I guess it could be moved- but this might make it respond in odd ways.

This said- maybe it could be moved downwards- still central but under the body. Then tinker with the CoG settings in the assistant.

 

[ianwood]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

I am guessing but I think the Naza needs to know where it is in relation to the CoG in order to calculate accelerometer data accurately. I'd further guess that the closer to the CoG it is, the more precise the accelerometer values are.

 

[CityZen]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

In a P1, the Naza is in the center of the board. In a P2V+, the Naza is shifted to one side to make room for the wifi module. It is still parallel to the longitudinal axis, though.

 

[SanCap]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

This is a screen shot from Naza Assistant for V2.

 

[discv]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

In a P1, the Naza is in the center of the board. In a P2V+, the Naza is shifted to one side to make room for the wifi module. It is still parallel to the longitudinal axis, though.

Are the CoG default settings on the P2V+ also all zeros?

 

[IflyinWY]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

Thank you for the feedback,

The CoG (Center of Gravity I assume) isn't an issue at all. I've mounted a 200 gram gimbal plus GoPro 1.25 inches forward of the CoG. I also use a 4000 mAh battery at 244 grams with it's CG .5 inches forward of the CoG. The bird is already "nose" heavy. Moving the lightweight NAZA module aft .5 inches is only going to work to my advantage.

I believe I will work on relocating the CG of the gimbal assembly much closer to the CoL (Center of Lift) so I don't burn up my forward motors prematurely. I can see where I will have much better control by accomplishing that task as well.

My concern lies with NAZA being located centrally so it offers/has precise accelerometer feedback/input. I would have included that in my original post, if I was as smart as ianwood. I have to wonder if NAZA is smart enough to compensate, as long as I tell it precisely where it is. If I move NAZA directly aft, retaining alignment with the longitudinal axis... well crap, brain stopped working :?

I've got some more homework to do before I can carry on this conversation intelligently.
Please continue to throw info at me in the meantime.

Thanks

 

[discv]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

Quote" I have to wonder if NAZA is smart enough to compensate, as long as I tell it precisely where it is"

I don't think it works like this- the co-ordinates entered in the Naza assistant relate to where the GPS puck is in relation to the CoG.

The actual site of the Naza does not come into the equation.

I tend to think that the Naza needs to be positioned equidistant from the motors. This may/may not be CoG

 

[The Editor]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

I don't think it works like this- the co-ordinates entered in the Naza assistant relate to where the GPS puck is in relation to the CoG.

Correct.

The value that should be input into the Naza M v2 Assistant are for GPS puck offset ONLY (all all three axis). These values have no bearing on the Naza itself which should be positioned as near to the COG as possible.

 

[syotr]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

I have seen lots of scratchbuilt quads with the flight controller off center. I don't think 1/2" will matter that much as long as it is pointing in the right direction. You can trim the board down or replace it with separate power distribution board and PMU.
I am using a cut-down Phantom board in one of my quads and in another I have the separate PDB and PMU. Both work fine.

 

[IflyinWY]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

To start, I would like to say "Thank You" for your replies.

I'm following, scratching my head occasionally, but I think I'm keeping up.

The Editor,
Should this: "The value that should be input into the Naza M v2 Assistant are for GPS puck offset ONLY (all all three axis)."
read like this: "The value that should be input into the Naza M v2 Assistant are for GPS puck offset ONLY (on all three axis)."?

Here's what I think I'm finding out:

CoG: Is to be considered with any physical change in configuration. As much as we would all like it to be equidistant from the motors, it's not going to happen. Some motors are going to work a bit more, some a bit less to compensate for aircraft loading. Within reason, these things will unscrew what I screw up. That's one of the things I love about the multi-rotor configuration.

CityZen's reference to the P2V+ makes me think I have some options to location provided orientation is maintained.
Can anyone answer this question from discv: "Are the CoG default settings on the P2V+ also all zeros?"
I'm not sure why CoG and location of NAZA are a critical/semi-critical consideration. I would easily be able to understand if it were a Center of Aircraft and NAZA relationship.
Am I trying to simplify weight and balance too much just because I now have 4 motors?
Is there an accelerometer or other sensor in the NAZA module or does it simply "compute data received" from the compass and GPS? If the answer is yes, there an accelerometer or other sensor. then my conclusion which follows is invalid.

The "NAZA" location is somewhat critical but it appears .5 inch lateral movement aft along the longitudinal axis should be acceptable.
After reading, rereading and rereading again, I'm really starting to think NAZA orientation is what's critical and location is not at all.
Feel free to tell me I'm wrong on that one.


The "GPS puck" location is critical and should not be altered. For my project this is fine.

There are options to the circuit board but, at the moment, I'm thinking my dremel will make the needed changes.
Thanks for the pic syotr.


So, does anyone think I'm getting closer to figuring this out or did I head off towards Pluto?

Thanks again

 

[CityZen]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

The only real answer is to try it out and see. The Naza module is stuck down with double-sided tape. It can be pried away and/or cut away without too much trouble. I'd suggest a combination of prying and using a razor blade to cut away at the adhesive. Then move it somewhere else, perhaps do a full IMU callibration, and try it out.

 

[IflyinWY]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

The only real answer is to try it out and see. The Naza module is stuck down with double-sided tape. It can be pried away and/or cut away without too much trouble. I'd suggest a combination of prying and using a razor blade to cut away at the adhesive. Then move it somewhere else, perhaps do a full IMU callibration, and try it out.

I think you're right. One more crash won't matter with my bird. The utility pole didn't do it in so what could happen if it's tethered?
Ha, stand by for video.

Seriously though I would like someone in the know to hit this question:
Is there an accelerometer or other sensor in the NAZA module or does it simply "compute data received" from the compass and GPS?

I'll be installing gadgets, moving stuff and drilling holes in my FC40 while I await a reply(s).

Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[CityZen]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

The Naza module contains a 3D accelerometer, 3D gyro, and a barometer to measure altitude.

 

[IflyinWY]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

The Naza module contains a 3D accelerometer, 3D gyro, and a barometer to measure altitude.

Nice, I think I may have to treat it a bit nicer.

Thanks

 

[ianwood]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

Odd. I can't figure out why the distance from the GPS antenna to the CoG matters. The Phantom GPS antenna could be a mile away from the CoG and pointing backwards it should still work the same way. And GPS is not essential to flight. The only two sensors that have a direct relationship with gravity are the gyro and accelerometer.

 

[IflyinWY]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

I wish you were thinking out loud ianwood.

I would like to move it aft a little.

 

[The Editor]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

Odd. I can't figure out why the distance from the GPS antenna to the CoG matters. The Phantom GPS antenna could be a mile away from the CoG and pointing backwards it should still work the same way. And GPS is not essential to flight. The only two sensors that have a direct relationship with gravity are the gyro and accelerometer.

The reason for this is that the Naza M v2 set up has both the GPS antenna AND the compass/magnetometer in the puck.

You are right though, GPS antenna is non directional.

 

[discv]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

I'm going to have a stab at an answer to all this- but it is by no means definitive :!:

I reckon the positioning of the Naza matters not a jot....provided that it is the right way up and pointing forward.
Let's take the GPS out of the equation- the Naza is only concerned about/ and correcting things that have nothing to do with it's position on the craft. e.g. if the craft is tipping to the left it will know that wherever it is.

IanWoods comments about telling the naza where the GPS puck is in relation to CoG is, I agree, purely a detail. The GPS accuracy is really not that good for that sort of detail to matter. + ( I think) all Phantoms default settings are zero.

I reckon the most important issue is that the laden craft is physically balanced to put the CoG equidistant from the motors. My view is that the Naza will then have less work in correcting an imbalance- thus not straining any particular motor or motors.

Now it could be said that DJI say this and that- but that's just DJI pointing out how sophisticated their product is :roll:

 

[IflyinWY]

Re: NAZA V2 location and size of the circuit board... though

Interesting reading on the GPS Compass Module here:
http://wiki.dji.com/en/index.php/A2_Imp ... Connection

I'm getting smarter every time someone posts something. The only problem is, 1 answer leads to 2 questions.
The smarter I get, the more I realize I don't know

In essence, with both NAZA and the GPS/Compass Module I've got some "wiggle room" provided my orientation is maintained. I think???