Lost Complete Control of P2V+ Today, Near Miss Crash

So, he had a similar crash in better weather conditions while flying out in the open and THEN decided later on to fly in the rain from inside his car :shock: I'm sorry, but this only digs the hole deeper for me.

2.4 and 5.8 GHz stuff is very short wavelength RF. Moisture attenuates the signal massively. SItting in a car is essentially sitting inside a Faraday Cage, another way to kill the signal.
 
Dronut said:
Disturbing. Eric Cheng (director of photography at dji) posted something similar on skypixel.org some days ago, only he was able to recover his bird: http://skypixel.org/post/83896211776

A real mystery. Is it all possible that that huge metal thing called the "Oakland Bay Bridge" and all the re-bar in the pier surface and pilings might have had anything to do with the trouble??
 
Sitting in a car flying will not help your compass function 100% without bringing the risk of damage, and maybe some phantoms have flown in moisture but I think its probably safer not to risk it. At the end of the day you have to apply some basic common sense when you fly unless you can afford to keep replacing damaged phantoms.

Calibration and keeping that communication link is of paramount importance to your flight characteristics, and we all have a duty of care to fly as responsibly as we can, but hey each to their own methods. They will probably learn expensive lessons.

Just wondering of the reported faults in the P2V+ so far, how many have come from experienced fliers ?
 
sting808 said:
Something interesting...

Not saying I would fly in the rain, but I have modded both my p2v and p2v+ with a micro Deans power connector for my LED prop lights for night flying. If anyone took apart their unit, you would see the ESC circuit boards are coated with what appears to be some type of "conformal" spray. The boards "appear" to be moisture resistant. I probed the ESC(motor speed control board) power leads and the solder bead wouldn't conduct. Had to move my probe toward the wire insulation to get continuity to verify power bus.

The p2v+ has the camera WiFi electronics in a shielded case and the NAZA is enclosed so couldn't see it, but the mainboard looks coated, too. Mileage may vary, but It looks like fog or light moisture not to be a problem in the short term.
Like most RC aircraft, almost none of the connectors in the Phantom's are waterproof, water-resistant, nor are they coated with any protectants to render them impervious to the corrosive effects of water with the possible exception of the wifi UFL connectors which are covered with glue to prevent them from popping off.

Surface tension is not our friend when moisture beads together to form droplets that make their way along cables with assistance from forced air and flight movement down into the connectors on the Central Board, NAZA-M, and (if you'd like to see for yourself without opening the shell)... the connector on the Compass Sensor which is strapped to your landing gear. Also remember the camera has a cooling fan; I don't really think they had water-cooling in mind when they designed it, but imagine where that moisture goes. And before you ask, yes the camera is replaceable to the tune of over $400 USD.

I have no problem with anyone who wants to "get the shot" or break a record and executes a short flight (edit: I believe Lakeville, Minnesota* still holds World Record here for coldest flight in extreme but relatively "dry" conditions), but if I saw droplets forming on my lens I'd fly back ASAP, ground all flights, and get it aired-out. Another good argument for having vents... to let air circulate thru the Phantom not only for cooling, but also to help air out the moisture after a "damp flight".

iDrone ;)

*http://www.phantompilots.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5173
 
Ok gentlemen, let´s calm down a bit.

For a starter we must admit that we are all allowed to make some trial and errors with our Phantoms and post it on the forum without taking head shots. We can all learn from each others misstakes and stupidities so in a way we should be thankful when other do them for us.

* Operating from a vehicle has worked more than well for some: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13573
so don´t get too worked up about that.
* We know even thunder and heavy rain, if only for a very short while can be ok too.

In any case FlyHighPhoto took hes chances and paid the price. I would not blame the Phantom, this one goes in the pilot error column.
Fair enough? No need to get too worked up. Next time someone else will mess up and hopefully have the courage to post the incident.
 
PixelNinja said:
iDrone said:
Peter, start your egg timer and start looking for a new Logon. I suspect you've got less than 24 hours before Adam flushes you out the fuselage with the rest of the waste... just like he's done how many times before? A dozen?

iDrone ;)

Why are you deflecting and unable to answer the simple and innocuous question that has been posed?

What is your personal experience flying in mist/rain?

What is the basis for your claims (other than idle fear-based speculation that isn't grounded in any experience)?

Your credibility continues to sink with every post.

Ok seeing as you have now elected yourself our resident phantom waterproof expert, can you turn on your shower and video yourself or someone else holding your phantom under the running shower while simulating flight and we'll see how long it lasts. We want to all benifit from your vast knowledge and experience.
 
iDrone said:
sting808 said:
Something interesting...

Not saying I would fly in the rain, but I have modded both my p2v and p2v+ with a micro Deans power connector for my LED prop lights for night flying. If anyone took apart their unit, you would see the ESC circuit boards are coated with what appears to be some type of "conformal" spray. The boards "appear" to be moisture resistant. I probed the ESC(motor speed control board) power leads and the solder bead wouldn't conduct. Had to move my probe toward the wire insulation to get continuity to verify power bus.

The p2v+ has the camera WiFi electronics in a shielded case and the NAZA is enclosed so couldn't see it, but the mainboard looks coated, too. Mileage may vary, but It looks like fog or light moisture not to be a problem in the short term.
Like most RC aircraft, almost none of the connectors in the Phantom's are waterproof, water-resistant, nor are they coated with any protectants to render them impervious to the corrosive effects of water with the possible exception of the wifi UFL connectors which are covered with glue to prevent them from popping off.

Surface tension is not our friend when moisture beads together to form droplets that make their way along cables with assistance from forced air and flight movement down into the connectors on the Central Board, NAZA-M, and (if you'd like to see for yourself without opening the shell)... the connector on the Compass Sensor which is strapped to your landing gear. Also remember the camera has a cooling fan; I don't really think they had water-cooling in mind when they designed it, but imagine where that moisture goes. And before you ask, yes the camera is replaceable to the tune of over $400 USD.

I have no problem with anyone who wants to "get the shot" or break a record and executes a short flight (edit: I believe Lakeville, Minnesota* still holds World Record here for coldest flight in extreme but relatively "dry" conditions), but if I saw droplets forming on my lens I'd fly back ASAP, ground all flights, and get it aired-out. Another good argument for having vents... to let air circulate thru the Phantom not only for cooling, but also to help air out the moisture after a "damp flight".

iDone ;)

*http://www.phantompilots.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5173


I hear you and generally agree. I didn't want to go into a lot of detail about "moisture proofing" electronics and connectors, but incidental moisture is survivable. I still wouldn't recommend flying in light rain unless people accept "disposable" equipment and parts as the norm. More importantly, one must accept liability for any personal injury or property damage for reckless acts.

And for the record, if the skies are getting bad or I feels drops, it's coming back fast. In Hawaii, weather can change really quickly.

Like any other "hobby", you gotta pay to play. This is still cheaper than racing or fishing. Replacing tires or filling up the tanks is still more than a ~$400 camera/gimbal assembly. (Tha'ts the old vision price... wonder what DJI will charge for the plus?)

I think the more level headed responses are insightful and welcomed. You live, learn and move on...

Back to entertaining and educational reading... :D
 
sting808 said:
iDrone said:
sting808 said:
Replacing tires or filling up the tanks is still more than a ~$400 camera/gimbal assembly. (Tha'ts the old vision price... wonder what DJI will charge for the plus?)

I think the more level headed responses are insightful and welcomed. You live, learn and move on...

Back to entertaining and educational reading... :D
Absolutely. And my bad, $400 USD is original Vision's camera (I usually hang in the Vision forum but came to see what these alleged fly-away's were all about) but I wonder if it might be less or pretty close... the Vision camera houses sensor, camera drive, microSD, wifi, and antennas all in one housing, but the Plus suspends the sensor from the 3X gimbal and puts all the electronics in a box up above it.

iDrone :?:
 
iDrone said:
Absolutely. And my bad, $400 USD is original Vision's camera (I usually hang in the Vision forum but came to see what these alleged fly-away's were all about) but I wonder if it might be less or pretty close... the Vision camera houses sensor, camera drive, microSD, wifi, and antennas all in one housing, but the Plus suspends the sensor from the 3X gimbal and puts all the electronics in a box up above it.

iDrone :?:

Working in TV back in the day and now IT, many things can affect RF. When I tell faculty about mesh reinforced glass and scattering effect on WiFi, they look at me funny... Without $$$ test equipment and inside knowledge, one can only speculate about the fly-aways. We're just doing a "SWAG". But fun to experiment... in a safe manner of course. ;)

I was pleasently surprised at how the plus was redesigned from the vision's one piece unit. The electronics are split between the gimbal unit and the RF section in the belly. Too bad it blocked the main power leads off the battery connector on the mainboard. That was my original tap on the Vision. The ESC power points are the next best place. Been a lurker for awhile, but finally decided to register when I sold the vision and ordered my plus.

My modded 2.4GHz vision could only manage ~950' out in a very heavily WiFi saturated urban location before video breakup. Had to forget my home SSIDs since it would flap back to it. With the plus, I went ~1500' out before some intermittent signal loss. I managed 2500' out at 300' alt in a nearby park on the stock plus. Not sure if I want to mod the antenna with that range. And not that BS flying sideways deal... hehe
 
PixelNinja said:
skyhighdiver said:
a single drop of water on any circuit board can and will cause death to your flying friend

My Phantom, and many others as well, must be zombies then because they fly fine after having been completely submerged and then dried out.

Yep, mine too.....went for a swim.....obviously the motors were operating when it got wet,.....flew perfectly after it was dry. Wouldn't choose to get it wet though.
 
My Phantom, and many others as well, must be zombies then because they fly fine after having been completely submerged and then dried out.

This misses the point in this discussion. You can absolutely dunk a Phantom in fresh water, dry it properly, and have good success in flying it again, AFTER it is dry.

When operating in the rain the issue is the effect that rain has on the 2.4GHz or 5.8GHz control frequencies. Signal attenuation is very high and the water also can cause multi-path issues for the receiver. Flying low over water can also cause multi-path problems. Combine that with transient problems in actual operation of electronics while wet, and the situation only gets worse. Sure, it works after being dried out, but it does not work all that well while wet.

To use the argument that some people have flown in the rain and it has worked thus it is OK is like saying that some people have driven DUI and not killed anyone so that must be OK. You are trying to argue against physics, and physics is going to win most of the time.

Same goes for flying from inside a car. It's a Faraday Cage. It attenuates RF signals. Simple fact. Ask any licensed ham what it is like trying to talk to a guy using a handy talkie inside his car.

Combine flying from inside a car with flying in the rain and the results are predictable. The reason this needs to be given the negative attention it is getting is so that others can learn that this is not a good idea without potentially damaging/losing their Phantom, or worse, injuring someone else. This is not unlike being able to know that sticking your hand in fire will burn you. You do not have to have done it yourself to learn that lesson.
 
PixelNinja said:
SilentAV8R said:
To use the argument that some people have flown in the rain and it has worked thus it is OK is like saying that some people have driven DUI and not killed anyone so that must be OK.

That's a horrible analogy. Please follow the bouncing ball here.

Someone claimed that "a single drop of water on any circuit board can and will cause death to your flying friend." That is simply not true, as shown by the experiences of many people, including me.

Get it?

Single drop, no. But flying in RAIN from inside a car is not a "single drop". Get it??

And use whatever analogy you want to, but pointing to the success of one person exercising poor judgement as proof that something is OK despite abundant evidence to the contrary is a poor method of determining what to do.
 
General question: Whats the benefit of operating a RC aircraft from INSIDE of a vehicle? As in, why would one choose to sit in the vehicle vs being outside of the vehicle? Just an honest question. Maybe there is a side benefit that Im unaware of and I'd like to learn
 
PixelNinja said:
SilentAV8R said:
To use the argument that some people have flown in the rain and it has worked thus it is OK is like saying that some people have driven DUI and not killed anyone so that must be OK.

That's a horrible analogy. Please follow the bouncing ball here.

Someone claimed that "a single drop of water on any circuit board can and will cause death to your flying friend." That is simply not true, as shown by the experiences of many people, including me.

Get it?


Closer....

Far away......

Closer........

Far away......

I think you need to start on the basics of life before you continue on your quest to become Gollum from lord of the rings, did you have to take drugs to make you troll like this or should you be taking drugs to make you stop trolling like this???
No need to answer, you can reflect on the answer yourself
 

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