Law enforcement and drones

Justgregg · Apr 20, 2016

Does anyone know where I can get info on Police using drones. Do they need special clearencee from the FAA? Im educating a group of officers on what to buy and flying instructions. I will most likely use my p4, inspire and a big octocopter in demonstration and lecture.
Thanks

msinger · Apr 20, 2016

What Can You Do With Your Unmanned Aircraft?

ftttu · Apr 20, 2016

I'm also interested since I'm a retired LEO. I knew I was going to get a drone near the end of my career/beginning of my retirement, so I told the brass and other officers I could help them out if ever asked. I've seen shows/news here and there about LE agencies using drones but I've never looked into if there is an organization as of yet for LE drone usage.

Good luck with your search, and I'll be monitoring this thread for updates.

Sim597 · Apr 20, 2016

Justgregg said:
Does anyone know where I can get info on Police using drones. Do they need special clearencee from the FAA? Im educating a group of officers on what to buy and flying instructions. I will most likely use my p4, inspire and a big octocopter in demonstration and lecture.
Thanks

You can start with this

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

It's the 4th amendment

Sim597 · Apr 20, 2016

Something I personally hold as dear to my heart as the 2nd. I will say good luck, sounds like a nice way to make a little scratch. There's a big difference of a drone flying over my head by you, a citizen, vs ANY agency, this of course meaning me a private citizen. There is definitely reason a police department can use drones legally though, and as long as they don't need a $8000 one with nobody knowing how to fly it, it's likely a good investment, especially if they use a cost effective Phantom over even an inspire, given the noise and flight times considered, they aren't making art, possibly security or rescue, or even if it is a case with a warrant, I hope you steer them in this direction.

Have fun and good luck, sounds like a good deal.

maseman88 · Apr 20, 2016

Hobbyists helping the police by using their drones to spy on people who may or may not be breaking the law? Na, im good.

Sim597 · Apr 20, 2016

maseman88 said:
Hobbyists helping the police by using their drones to spy on people who may or may not be breaking the law? Na, im good.

They're gonna do it anyway, it's better to have a guy with some integrity, reminding them of the 4th amendment and the laws may help.

Air Ontario · Apr 20, 2016

They are normally used in rural grow ops search, cornfields, etc. and car crash investigation and reconstruction.

Actually that is about all it would be good for unless the commercial version of the military ones is used for border patrol, etc.

Myetkt · Apr 21, 2016

Justgregg said:
Does anyone know where I can get info on Police using drones. Do they need special clearencee from the FAA? Im educating a group of officers on what to buy and flying instructions. I will most likely use my p4, inspire and a big octocopter in demonstration and lecture.
Thanks

I don't think you are going to find any Police Agencies using any of the Phantom line on a day to day basis. I have been a Police Officer for 28 years and been flying Phantoms for the past 2. When I got my first Phantom I really thought this would be a great tool that could be used by the department. Let me say that I work for a very large dept. with deep pockets, so we have plenty of resources at our disposal if needed. The biggest problem I found was the amount of time the drone could be in the air before there was a battery problem. Then there was a logistics problem, where was the drone to be keep when not in use? Can't take off from the station, by the time you got to the location you wanted to see the battery problem was back. So the drone would have to be in a patrol car, and by the time you got it in the air most likely the incident would be over. The 2 places where I could see the drone working is if say you are about to server a warrant on a house and you want to see cars in the driveway or maybe get an idea of whats in the front of house (I did see a news clip about a agency do this). But you would have to be careful of someone hearing the drone. The next would be in a riot situation, and then only to get an idea of where people might be gathering.
And then there is still liability, and training to consider. If the drone comes down and hits someone you know someone is getting sued and its going to be the city and police depts. And if the officer flying the drone isn't properly trained it just get uglier when court time comes.
Hope this helps you with your class. If you have any other questions let me know.

Wibble · Apr 21, 2016

Police depts only interested in things costing over 50k!!!
Seriously even though the P4 is probably better than something commercial they will still want to throw money away - it only belongs to the tax payer!

BigAl07 · Apr 21, 2016

LE and UAS is a very slippery slope not just from a legal aspect. I work with our local LE from time to time and it's a hassle. While the idea is great and the gesture is GRAND this one is not for the faint of heart.

With that being said.... there are many LEA out there who are willing to grasp this new technology and move forward so you might be lucky. Just go into it with open eyes and the understanding you will have LOTS of hoops to jump through and at the end of the day... it's really not worth it.

Now Search & Rescue... that's a LOT of fun with less hoops and regulations. But unless you are a Govt Agency you have to (depending on the Agency and how they interpret the regs) have your Section 333 Exemption to participate in SAR.

tcope · Apr 21, 2016

They would get this information from their city attorney. As far as what they need to buy, it depends on what their attorney tells them, what they want to use the drone for and what there budget is.

Personally, I recommend just giving them a presentation as to what the P4 is capable of so that they can understand how it works and it's limitations.

Justgregg · Apr 21, 2016

I have heard that LEA are using them for accident investigations. Saving time and money by shooting pics from the air. I have talked to Denver PD officers and they were all for having phantoms fitted with flir. Denver has a 406 bell helecopter that they say always seem to be in the air at the wrong time of the day or not when they need it. Budget restraints keeps it grounded quite a bit.
I actually contacted a friend I used to work with at Government that uses drones for geotechnical research, and a COA needs to be set up for the area that the PD wants to fly. Right now Im helping in training officers to fly and directing them on what to buy. Im shooting a training class showing a bird eye view on how to conduct the PITT manuver. We will see how active track works chasing the cars. May have to throw it in sport mode and fly it manually to keep up with the cars. Shud be fun.

Justgregg · Apr 21, 2016

Hey big al...what kind of hoops to jump thru? How can a police agency that flies a helo around with FLIR and night sun looking for bad guys, cant fly a drone doing the same thing? Curious....

WWK888 · Apr 21, 2016

I too am a retired LEO and I can think of numerous situations a UAV would be useful. Besides the obvious accident investigations, illegal grow operations, major crime scene documentation...the list goes on. I think if my department utilized a drone they would assign it to our Special Services Division (SSD or SWAT). You could train several officers to be proficient with it and have them on 24 hour standby or availability if needed. Best would be to purchase several to have all shifts covered. I am sure in certain barricade or hostage situations it could come in handy as eyes in the sky.

AS far as liability it would be much like the K9 unit. Properly trained and licensed would be the key but I am sure our City attorneys would have a lot to say about using them. Interesting discussion.

Sim597 · Apr 23, 2016

Wibble said:
Police depts only interested in things costing over 50k!!!
Seriously even though the P4 is probably better than something commercial they will still want to throw money away - it only belongs to the tax payer!

Agree

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

WWK888 · Apr 23, 2016

Not my department...LOL. Cheap bastards...unless the Feds are paying for it.

Wibble · Apr 23, 2016

$250K police drone crashes into Lake Conroe

Texas Police $250,000 on a drone!!! And I bet a Phantom gets better results!

Phantomfreak · Apr 23, 2016

250 grand for a drone, lol.. It had FLIR? Big deal, you can buy a Phantom 2 vision with FLIR for 3 grand that would probably be 90% as capable as what they bought for 250 large.. Talk about wasting taxpayer money

Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

Air Ontario · Apr 23, 2016

Drones are great potential LE tools for accident investigation, especially on major arteries and Interstates.
They would also work well for hidden farm-field grow ops, S&R and HRT/SWAT deployment and comms delivery/etc. to a barricaded suspect.

Would be useful to critique training and evaluate realtime operations.