Laughed out of the office

[fatalPORKshank]

I recently shot a property for a local agent with a national agency in my area. I discounted the shoot significantly under the premise that I'm getting my work out there and this was fully understood. The realtor was kind enough to show the office the video I shot and next thing I knew I was invited into their office to meet with their president.

Pretty laid back guy but he had a lot of questions which I thought I did a fairly good job answering. I explained my certification and insurance. I explained I did not have a pricing list yet and would put one together. I was invited back this Tuesday to go over my services and lay out my prices.

Another realtor in the office contacted me for a quick quote on a property for exterior and interior photo and video. I shot her an email with what I though was reasonable pricing. No response. I called and she basically laughed me off the phone stating she couldn't afford it. Now, this was for a $499,000 home with 30 acres in NW Missouri. I quoted her $400 for the whole deal, photo, video, edited and all. Is this that unreasonable? Judging from droners.io, it's a bargain and honestly, any lower seems like an insult.

 

[tcope]

I'd break it down first to the time involved. I'm thinking driving to the location and time to shoot. I'll guess it is local so 2 hours. I'd think it would take at least 2 hours to throw together a video so we are 4 hours into it. At $40/hour that is $160, call it $200. I'm listing the lowest possible amount's I'd consider this would take. You then have equiptment costs and insurance. Put that at $100 and you are at $300. I'd consider that the minimum amount required for a job. That is just my personal opinion though.

So $400? I'd consider that reasonable.

 

[Walksalot]

I'm in New Zealand and charge $480 - $525 for the same, and it's still too cheap but what the market here will bear.

 

[BigAl07]

It depends on your area and your MARKET! If someone in your market is "giving away" their services for $150 then you'll need to find a way to compete.

I recently saw a FLYER for a Photography Company that do Real Estate shoots for $125 (interior included) and will ADD Aerials for $50. What caught my eye was the flyer looked like someone in 8th grade threw it together in about 5 minutes. I checked out their website and it looks like the same 8th grader is also doing all of their work. Once someone see their quality they will gladly pay more for QUALITY work.

What I'm saying is you'll have to find your market and figure a way to add VALUE to whatever that price is and go from there.

Keep in mind that someone else could be "baiting" them in at lower pricing to get their business. It's a dangerous race to the bottom when you give/discount your work.

 

[fatalPORKshank]

Thanks for the replies. My time is worth something. Maybe more than others are willing to pay but that doesn't change anything. I made my pitch to the realty office today. Fingers crossed this turns into something great. Either way, I'll continue building my skills flying and post processing and continue valuing my time.

 

[AllanFG]

If you look at the MLS you will see that realtors don't value photography. I see homes going for more than 500K with badly composed cell phone pics. I have found that most people aren't going to pay what it really costs to get good quality photos or video. I shoot for fun and have a real job to pay the bills, I find my life easier that way

 

[Droners.io]

Big Al is right on the mark.
What we see on Droners.io for real estate is a lot of jobs awarded in the ~$200 range. Usually unedited (or minimal touchup) - quick flyby video and a handful of photos. This includes experienced pilots that are focusing on building their brand and want to get a solid set of reviews under their belt - so they have lowered their pricing a bit, and also newer pilots pilots - but still descent quality. Usually this sub set of pilots leaves the client happy. Work in the $500+ range usually includes edited video - so your pricing is realistic.

Frequently though - we'll get new pilots that will low ball, the agent will bite, and they'll end up with unusable footage. Almost every time this happens - it could have been avoided if the agent looked at existing work of the pilot. If the pilot doesn't have anything worth while, then it's likely that is what they are going to get in return. My advise to the agent is that unless the pilot has sample work they can show that meets the quality standards that the agent would like - I would not hire them. Like everything, you usually get what you pay for.

Since Part 107 being released - for every experienced pilot, there are 10x (or more) inexperience pilots that have just recently decided to jump on the bandwagon.

So how do you earn business in such a competitive market? Here are my suggestions:
1) This is pretty obvious - but still worth mentioning - build an in-depth portfolio so that you are able to directly/personally relate to the exact shot they are needing - "Oh you need your dealership shot? Take a look at this", etc.. even though the experience from one type of shot is easily transferable to another - clients still frequently ask for footage of the exact shot they are needing. And make sure you have the basics covered in your reels - i.e. don't have the shadow of the drone in the footage or show yourself standing in it. Try and shoot during optimal times of day for lighting, etc. If you can't edit - those few simple things will go a long way. (I'm not a professional photographer - but I've watched thousands of videos on our platform and there is nothing that stands out more than that and it can be easily avoidable). When a client is unhappy about footage delivered to them - if those 2 things are in it (your drone shadow or yourself) - you can bet they are going to point it out.

2) Get good at editing - and make sure your portfolio shows that - even if your client isn't wanting edited footage - it is going to set you apart from the thousands of pilots out there. This is the #1 thing I would recommend investing your time in. If a client on our platform receives 10 bids - and 1 of those pilots has a beautiful edited reel - even if the client doesn't need that type/quality of footage - they are going to get the job likely. And this is going to become even more so true when agents start to realize how important experience is after getting burnt by someone who showed up with their drone but no photography experience.

3) Define what the client is getting. A lot of clients are new to this - paint a full picture for them.. i.e. don't just tell them "Yea I'll come shoot your place" - instead tell them exactly what they are going to get (i.e. number of photos they should expect to receive, how much video footage, edited/unedited, etc.) - and like mentioned in #1 - try to back it up with existing work they can relate to. Also - take the time to ask questions of what they want - don't assume. For example - we had an agent ask for some photos of an empty lot. Pilot shot the lot and delivered the footage. They then found out the client actually wanted top down views so they could show property lines, etc.

4) The industry is very competitive and only become more so for the time being, and yes while it's unfortunate that it's going to drive down pricing - that is reality. After a while - the buzz will wear off and people will realize it's no different than operating any other service oriented business - you have to be good at what you do and just because it's the hottest tech out there right now - doesn't mean your going to make a killing at it. Pilots who aren't in it for the long haul will get tired of chasing clients and not making money and the market will stabilize - but - you have to remember this is the first warm season since Part 107 - so things are going to be gnarly for a while. You shouldn't participate in a race to the bottom if you can - but do what you can to edge yourself above the competition (i.e. perhaps instead of saying your going to deliver 10 photos for a one hour shoot - instead tell the client your going to focus on taking 10 good shots from X angles - and they are more than welcome to have any other photos you take while on site. Your still getting paid the same amount.). Pilots frequently compare drone photography to standard photography pricing... while this is a good starting point - you don't have everyone racing to go pick up a camera and become a photographer right now.

I hope the info above helps - I'm more than happy to share additional insight from what we've seen on our marketplace.

 

[BigAl07]

Big Al is right on the mark.
What we see on Droners.io for real estate is a lot of jobs awarded in the ~$200 range. Usually unedited (or minimal touchup) - quick flyby video and a handful of photos. This includes experienced pilots that are focusing on building their brand and want to get a solid set of reviews under their belt - so they have lowered their pricing a bit, and also newer pilots pilots - but still descent quality. Usually this sub set of pilots leaves the client happy. Work in the $500+ range usually includes edited video - so your pricing is realistic.

Frequently though - we'll get new pilots that will low ball, the agent will bite, and they'll end up with unusable footage. Almost every time this happens - it could have been avoided if the agent looked at existing work of the pilot. If the pilot doesn't have anything worth while, then it's likely that is what they are going to get in return. My advise to the agent is that unless the pilot has sample work they can show that meets the quality standards that the agent would like - I would not hire them. Like everything, you usually get what you pay for.

Since Part 107 being released - for every experienced pilot, there are 10x (or more) inexperience pilots that have just recently decided to jump on the bandwagon.

So how do you earn business in such a competitive market? Here are my suggestions:
1) This is pretty obvious - but still worth mentioning - build an in-depth portfolio so that you are able to directly/personally relate to the exact shot they are needing - "Oh you need your dealership shot? Take a look at this", etc.. even though the experience from one type of shot is easily transferable to another - clients still frequently ask for footage of the exact shot they are needing. And make sure you have the basics covered in your reels - i.e. don't have the shadow of the drone in the footage or show yourself standing in it. Try and shoot during optimal times of day for lighting, etc. If you can't edit - those few simple things will go a long way. (I'm not a professional photographer - but I've watched thousands of videos on our platform and there is nothing that stands out more than that and it can be easily avoidable). When a client is unhappy about footage delivered to them - if those 2 things are in it (your drone shadow or yourself) - you can bet they are going to point it out.

2) Get good at editing - and make sure your portfolio shows that - even if your client isn't wanting edited footage - it is going to set you apart from the thousands of pilots out there. This is the #1 thing I would recommend investing your time in. If a client on our platform receives 10 bids - and 1 of those pilots has a beautiful edited reel - even if the client doesn't need that type/quality of footage - they are going to get the job likely. And this is going to become even more so true when agents start to realize how important experience is after getting burnt by someone who showed up with their drone but no photography experience.

3) Define what the client is getting. A lot of clients are new to this - paint a full picture for them.. i.e. don't just tell them "Yea I'll come shoot your place" - instead tell them exactly what they are going to get (i.e. number of photos they should expect to receive, how much video footage, edited/unedited, etc.) - and like mentioned in #1 - try to back it up with existing work they can relate to. Also - take the time to ask questions of what they want - don't assume. For example - we had an agent ask for some photos of an empty lot. Pilot shot the lot and delivered the footage. They then found out the client actually wanted top down views so they could show property lines, etc.

4) The industry is very competitive and only become more so for the time being, and yes while it's unfortunate that it's going to drive down pricing - that is reality. After a while - the buzz will wear off and people will realize it's no different than operating any other service oriented business - you have to be good at what you do and just because it's the hottest tech out there right now - doesn't mean your going to make a killing at it. Pilots who aren't in it for the long haul will get tired of chasing clients and not making money and the market will stabilize - but - you have to remember this is the first warm season since Part 107 - so things are going to be gnarly for a while. You shouldn't participate in a race to the bottom if you can - but do what you can to edge yourself above the competition (i.e. perhaps instead of saying your going to deliver 10 photos for a one hour shoot - instead tell the client your going to focus on taking 10 good shots from X angles - and they are more than welcome to have any other photos you take while on site. Your still getting paid the same amount.). Pilots frequently compare drone photography to standard photography pricing... while this is a good starting point - you don't have everyone racing to go pick up a camera and become a photographer right now.

I hope the info above helps - I'm more than happy to share additional insight from what we've seen on our marketplace.

Excellent write up! Spot on top to bottom.

Welcome to PP. Now I have a face to go along with those emails I get LOL.

 

[Gulfstream]

Well said!

 

[Phil Tuggle]

@fatalPORKshank, you are being completely reasonable, so the agent can laugh all she wants for whatever invalid reasons she chooses.

Here's the deal. She is selling her services to the seller of the property by getting a whooping 5 or 6% commission for doing so; that includes her guidance, her paperwork, her general overhead (agency and various real estate dues, car expenses, etc, etc..), AND her marketing efforts and outlay to GET THE PROPERTY NOTICED, CONTRACTED, and CLOSED. SHE knows the property must be SEEN online to be noticed. SHE knows great marketing, including your photos and video, will make that happen sooner rather than later. Bottom line, she is going to get anywhere from $12,500 to $25,000+ when that property sells (depending upon whether it's her buyer or another agent's).

Further, if the seller is paying a typical mortgage each month, your fee pales in comparison to the benefits of a quicker sale that YOUR WORK will promote.

LISTING PHOTOGRAPHY (and video) IS THE MOST IMPORTANT MARKETING TOOL IN THE WORLD OF REAL ESTATE. It is beyond amazing how many agents don't seem to "get" that.

$400 is completely reasonable. Stand your ground! She can use you and sell reasonably fast, or use use her crappy point-and-shoot 28mm camera and stay on the market for a year or so. I think you should be laughing at HER....and her little Mercedes, too.

(PS: I was a licensed Realtor for many years)

 

[herein2014]

I can tell you as a professional photographer in this field that that was a pretty reasonable price; as long as you are still in the experience building/portfolio building stage. Personally I wouldn't have even considered that much work for that price; as soon as a customer adds terrestrial video, interior video, and interior photos I'm bringing around $30K worth of equipment on site, so there is no way I'd accept a project with that many requirements for that price.

I will tell you though that in the $500K range I advise my customers to stick to photography only. Their target audience at least in my market simply won't need a video to make a go/no go decision on a showing and it would not be worth my client's money to pay for video at that selling price point.

As others in this thread have mentioned, the market is currently in a race to the bottom; with the proliferation of drones every kid out there is trying to live the dream of making a profit out of thin air (literally) then when their customer wants interior/exterior footage they pick up a cheap crop sensor DSLR and underbid the professionals by double digit percentage points.

It always amuses me to see multi-million dollar listings in my area shot with cell phone cameras and sitting on Zillow for 120+ days. Real estate agents will haggle over that last red cent and in the meantime they are doing a great disservice to the home owners who are trying to sell their homes. I have even had homeowners hire me directly and threaten to break their listing contract with their agents if their agents do not subtract the cost of my services from their commission.

At the end of the day you just have to be prepared to lose customers that are not willing to pay you what you think your time is worth. The downside is that as you build your portfolio it will be hard to get footage if the local agents are not willing to pay your prices. But there are many things you can do even without footage to start impressing your local agents and making yourself stand out; make very professional business cards, start your LLC, create your brand/logo, get shirts with your logo, build or pay for a professional website, create professional templates with your price structure, etc. etc.

 

[Sharpshooter7]

If you look at the MLS you will see that realtors don't value photography. I see homes going for more than 500K with badly composed cell phone pics. I have found that most people aren't going to pay what it really costs to get good quality photos or video. I shoot for fun and have a real job to pay the bills, I find my life easier that way

I am a commercial photographer based in the DFW metroplex. Most of my work is accomplished from helicopters, but a couple of clients pressured me into having drone capability. I'm a pilot so the part 107 was a no brainer, and after a lot of research I decided the P4Pro was a good entry level product for my client's needs. The real estate market is something all aspiring photographers gravitate toward whether ground tor air. Unfortunately, it is a quick way to waste a lot of your time for very little recompense. Realtors do not value your work, are notoriously thrifty (read cheap). If you are someone who has a job that supports you and you want to pick up a few (very few) bucks to support your drone/photography habit, then maybe you are willing to spend copious amounts of time for $25-$50 bucks a whack, but it definitely isn't a great business plan. The other thing you will find, if this is a route you want to go, is that because they do not value you or your time, you will often get situations where the client wants another view they failed to mention, or a different time of day, or something, then you are faced with going back out, for no additional fee. Just a very frustrating path, of ra small amount of income.

My commercial clients and I have relationships that go back as far as four decades, they value me, my work, and as a result my fee schedules work very well for both of us. Once I get comfortable with the P4Pro, my plan is to move into the 5.2K Inspire2, then to an Octocopter with my Canon/Sony gear mounted on it. The more sophisticated your equipment/capabilities get, the further you move from competition and low fees.

 

[Melvoid]

I recently shot a property for a local agent with a national agency in my area. I discounted the shoot significantly under the premise that I'm getting my work out there and this was fully understood. The realtor was kind enough to show the office the video I shot and next thing I knew I was invited into their office to meet with their president.

Pretty laid back guy but he had a lot of questions which I thought I did a fairly good job answering. I explained my certification and insurance. I explained I did not have a pricing list yet and would put one together. I was invited back this Tuesday to go over my services and lay out my prices.

Another realtor in the office contacted me for a quick quote on a property for exterior and interior photo and video. I shot her an email with what I though was reasonable pricing. No response. I called and she basically laughed me off the phone stating she couldn't afford it. Now, this was for a $499,000 home with 30 acres in NW Missouri. I quoted her $400 for the whole deal, photo, video, edited and all. Is this that unreasonable? Judging from droners.io, it's a bargain and honestly, any lower seems like an insult.

Only thing I'd say is that guys with airplanes start around $400.00. If it's in my county, I usually do it for around $100.00. Not far to drive, usually takes less than an hour, I give them all the files, and will negotiate editing or resizing of video or stills, respectively.

 

[FlashBuddy]

Ha! As a profession photographer and working with real estate. It is my humble opinion that most agents are cheapskates. Initially, twenty years ago, it was hard to understand why somebody who stands to profit greatly couldn't see spending a small amount on professional photography. I've seen so many agents come and go. The good ones stay, make great money and won't mind paying industry prices for your drone media. When you meet the right agents/brokers, you will find professionals who won't balk at reasonable prices.

 

[Southern Style]

I believe in getting started and getting your name out there... but I have had this attitude since I started:

" Here is my price, and if that's to high for you, I am sure that you can find someone for 1/2 the price and 1/2 as good as me"...... So, if your looking for price, call him, if you want a good quality video that you will be happy with and will help sell your house, then call me back.. If not, I have other jobs on the books... Thank you for your time.

If you are putting out good quality video's in a timely manor where they get the results and can us them,,, then you work will speak for itself... Just focus on quality of your work and the chips will fall in your favor. Yea, you might lose the next job to Joe Short Change who under bid the job, by when they get the final copy, they will not be impressed. Then your price will sound alot better to them for the next job....

Good luck..

 

[SkyFrog]

I would explain that you get what you pay for. I doubt your cheap competition is licensed, and I can almost guarantee they aren't insured. $400 for everything you said done completely professionally is a great deal. This agent sounds like a moron.

 

[Phil Tuggle]

I would explain that you get what you pay for. I doubt your cheap competition is licensed, and I can almost guarantee they aren't insured. $400 for everything you said done completely professionally is a great deal. This agent sounds like a moron.

Sure have to agree. The price is right.

Just a note: While I certainly agree with the insurance (liability), there are some states in the US where the insurance industry has yet to address, let alone settle, on coverage and premiums in the small business UAV world (like my State of SC -- NOT complaining). Yes, I know about Verifly and several others. No, thank you, not until I see proof-of-coverage cases and their outcomes. (Meantime, of course I am covered in liability for personal injuries I may cause on the ground) Not trying to start a new or unrelated discussion...just an added thought, that's all.

 

[SkyFrog]

Sure have to agree. The price is right.

Just a note: While I certainly agree with the insurance (liability), there are some states in the US where the insurance industry has yet to address, let alone settle, on coverage and premiums in the small business UAV world (like my State of SC -- NOT complaining). Yes, I know about Verifly and several others. No, thank you, not until I see proof-of-coverage cases and their outcomes. (Meantime, of course I am covered in liability for personal injuries I may cause on the ground) Not trying to start a new or unrelated discussion...just an added thought, that's all.

I agree fully.

 

[jeffcutler]

I'm a REALTOR in a pretty affluent community near Boston. I'm also a professional photographer and writer...and as such I do all the marketing materials for the brokerages (one commercial, one residential) I work for. In this role, I have to account for all our marketing efforts and our listing photography is $250 for interior and exterior stills of a property.

I've only had the drone for six days, so my experience is a bit light there. But I researched pricing for the images we'd want of the listings we have (homes average $750k here) and found that the best firms in terms of quality (individuals and bigger companies) charge between $250 and $500 for aerial video of the property.

Therefore, I think the OP is priced perfectly and shouldn't reduce his price. I also believe that if I'm hired to do aerial footage for other brokerages, I'd charge $250 or more for video.

 

[cdusher]

If you look at the MLS you will see that realtors don't value photography. I see homes going for more than 500K with badly composed cell phone pics. I have found that most people aren't going to pay what it really costs to get good quality photos or video. I shoot for fun and have a real job to pay the bills, I find my life easier that way

Right on the mark. I do some Real Estate work, but limited. You're right. Look at the photos used by many. For some reason they many don't value photos. A realtor in my wife's office had a 700.000 dollar listing. I told him if I was looking in that price range and saw the photos I'd be looking elsewhere. Anyway I totally agree.