Just a heads up to those who ignore the rules.

[SteveMann]

I was more meaning not a transponder in the traditional sense (Mode A, C, S etc.). I have a GDL 88 in my Cessna, however I honestly didn't know that ads-b was queried like the traditional SSR transponder. I thought it just broadcasts ID and info all the time...

Your 1090ES transponder adds data to the query reply and every few ms without being asked

ADSB "sounds" like a good solution, but how many manned aircraft have ADSB-in to detect another aircraft transmitting ADS-B 1090ES? Also, ATC can't see an ADSB equipped aircraft if it's too low to be received by an ADSB Ground Station.

 

[RCFantom]

BORING....

 

[GoodnNuff]

There have been hundreds of thousands of hours of flight of small drones, yet there is not one verifiable report of a drone crash that resulted in a serious injury as defined by the NTSB to someone not connected to the flight. Not one. (A Band-Aid is not a serious injury- See CFR 49 §830.2).

The baby in the carriage was not hit by the drone, but from debris thrown by the prop hitting the ground. She was taken to the ER for evaluation and sent home the same day. Not a serious injury, but you have to read past the sensational headlines to find that.

There you go again making it sound like minor injuries are completely acceptable.
And how does the NTSB define "serious injury?" I believe most of us have a looser definition of "serious injury" than the NTSB does?
But you are right, so far just minor injuries and a handful of stitches here and there.
Fortunately it has been Phantoms or similar sized drones that have been involved in the few documented accidents so far. With heavier and bigger drones becoming more common, I hope we don't see an increase in the number of injuries, or the severity of injuries.

And Steve, you got to admit with the Inspire and the Baby incident, all involved were very lucky. A few feet would have made a world of difference. I do not want to speculate what an Inspire at 6.5 lbs could potentially do to a baby.

 

[BSquared]

There are no European and Australian versions. All Phantoms (the respective models, ie. 1, 2, 2V, 2V+, 2NV, 3-S/A/P or model codes) are the same worldwide. The only regional difference, which is optional is the turning of a potentiometer on the back of the P2 Vision remote to get longer distance (FCC, CE modes). Phantom 2 non-visions with monitors and 5.8GHz video Tx/Rx are a very common thing all over the world. There are tons of US flyers even here on the forum.



What? What makes you think that? Just because you've "never run into anyone"? There is a huge group of Phantom flyers who saw the benefits of not flying with a laggy link to devices with apps that often fail and freeze on a system with limited range that doesn't perform as advertised.



Which "folks"? How do they "pick up GPS"? You can't just intercept any GPS signal and know who/where is using it.
I'm sorry to say it seems you have no idea what your talking about, both in regards to Phantom types and transmitter/receiver technologies. Although you're right that you're able to pick up wifi networks on your laptop, the Phantom 2 Vision extender is the only thing you can pick up. That's because its a link between the remote and an external device (phone, tablet), but Phantom 2 non-vision remote and video signals cannot be picked up with wifi scanners, even though they're in the frequency range, the modulation and frequency hopping is different.

The Phantom 2 Vision+ DOES have a transmitter in the Lower Body Shell that DOES transmit a MAC address. It is even labeled right on it! Regarding Transmitter and receiver Technologies, I am much more adept in that arena than you have any idea of. I am also an Amateur Radio Operator since '80. I build my own gear, antennas, and build LNAs, (Low Noise Amplifiers), all using surface mount technology. If you ever had a Phantom open, you'd see nothing but surface mount devices throughout. The ESCs are all Surface Mount, along with the LEDs that are mounted on the under side that you see when all is linked. The Green ones indeed are those that indicate GPS Lock. The Phantoms do NOT use frequency hopping technology! Were they to do so, the cost would easily triple! I have worked in that business! We were developing those systems for the Military and Government. We also built Spread Spectrum Systems.

When one links the smartphone through the Range Extender, it connects directly with the 2.4Ghz receiver in the P2V+. There are two separate receivers in the P2V+! One runs at 5.8GHz for flight control. The Second provides the FPV to the DJI Vision App on the smartphone.

There is a great deal that YOU do not know regarding Transmitter and Receiver Technology. My main station transceiver is all Surface Mount Technology, and I can operate across three separate frequency bands simultaneously. I regularly transmit on the range of 144 to 148Mhz, and Receive on 432 to 450Mhz. There is a good bit of odd and numerous antennas up on my property.

 

[BSquared]

Your 1090ES transponder adds data to the query reply and every few ms without being asked

ADSB "sounds" like a good solution, but how many manned aircraft have ADSB-in to detect another aircraft transmitting ADS-B 1090ES? Also, ATC can't see an ADSB equipped aircraft if it's too low to be received by an ADSB Ground Station.

That is one of the reasons that I became involved with the ADSB System. They wanted my location for low altitude input. I am directly south of Dulles International, and right under the Southern Approach. I do know about the data that is added. It all goes through my IP Connection.

The other aircraft do NOT need to see ADSB. That is the reason for TCAS, the Collision Avoidance System. That has been around for quite some time now.

 

[N017RW]

I am much more adept in that arena than you have any idea of.

Oh boy.

Yawn.

You haven't provided us with anything new (except your resume').

 

[BSquared]

If providing information on the internals to a P2V+ is a resume, than you are really lost.

I also flew N29S. A Sukhoi SU-29 two seat unlimited world class aerobatic aircraft.

There isn't enough room to list all!

 

[N017RW]

Super, but we both aparrently fly P2s and there 2+ yrs old.

What you say you do or have done is fantastic.
If you served our country, Thank You.

But there's still nothing new here except more CV info.

 

[BSquared]

At least I don't use a phony tail number for an ID. No CV info provided. While the P2V+ was announced in 2013, it indeed did not hit the market until April 2014.

I did not acquire mine until August this year. I seem to understand the systems better than a bunch of folks that post simplistic things such as "Yawn".

Now when someone wishes to have an intelligent discourse, I'll join the thread.

 

[BSquared]

There have been hundreds of thousands of hours of flight of small drones, yet there is not one verifiable report of a drone crash that resulted in a serious injury as defined by the NTSB to someone not connected to the flight. Not one. (A Band-Aid is not a serious injury- See CFR 49 §830.2).

The baby in the carriage was not hit by the drone, but from debris thrown by the prop hitting the ground. She was taken to the ER for evaluation and sent home the same day. Not a serious injury, but you have to read past the sensational headlines to find that.

You sir are absolutely correct! The only ones that have been injured to my knowledge have been "new" drone owners that don't possess the acumen to chop the throttle before grabbing one on its side with the blades turning. I have to turn away to keep from profusely laughing and furthering their embarrassment!

 

[Fyod]

The Phantom 2 Vision+ DOES have a transmitter in the Lower Body Shell that DOES transmit a MAC address.

Congratulations, you repeated what I wrote. But the point was that the non-vision does not have any Wifi identifiable transmission.
I don't see what argument you're attempting to make with SMD parts. Of course its SMD, it's 2015. Having throughole boards in the Phantoms would be ludicrous. I also don't understand where you get the notion that I've never taken the Phantom apart. I've been in the belly at least a dozen times and made modifications I deemed necessary or worthwhile. I design PCBs and electronic devices for a living.

The Phantoms do NOT use frequency hopping technology! Were they to do so, the cost would easily triple! I have worked in that business! We were developing those systems for the Military and Government. We also built Spread Spectrum Systems.

Allow me to just quote the remote specs from any DJI reseller site (and this is for the Phantom 1, which is a couple years old).

The Phantom 6-Channel Radio Controller for Original Phantom uses a 2.4G Hz ISM frequency that supports a communication distance of up to 984.3' (300m) depending on the flight environment. The frequency hopping anti-interference design allows up to 60 remote controllers to be active in the same area at the same time. It also provides a reliable remote communications link. The remote features 6 channels and it is powered by 4 AA batteries. You can use it as a spare or as a replacement for the remote controller that comes with your Phantom quadcopter.

Frq. hopping is also used by Futaba (among many) and is able to change frequencies several hundred times per second.
Another good example of frequency hopping spread spectrum are today's bluetooth modules.
802.11b/g/a (Wifi) use direct sequence spread spectrum.

I respect your experience in other similar industries, but the drone industry is very fast at adopting the newest affordable tech that could've been deemed too expensive to build or too crazy just a few years back. And the rollercoaster keeps going. Search google for pictures of what the PCBs look like in Phantom 3's.

 

[Mark The Droner]

...

Now, if you cannot see it, then what if you lose the control link? It will fly home. All good? NO! It then is no longer within YOUR control! It will make a bee line straight to where you told it was home! What is between you and it on a straight line? Someone's chimney that they are out doing yard work next to? So it crashes into that chimney and the carcass falls on that person. Remember it will either descend to 20 meters, or climb to 20 meters. So let's simply say roughly 60 feet. ...

Not sure where you're getting this from. Maybe your craft behaves differently than mine. My Phantom does not descend when in RTH unless it has arrived over its home point.

Also, why would I leave my RTH minimum height at default or set my RTH height at 60 feet when I have 100 ft. trees and sloping upward hills all around me? My RTH height on my Phantom is set at 180 feet, and it's set by me based on my surroundings here where I live. There are no chimneys around here that are anywhere close to 180 feet.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just think there are a lot of capable pilots who are flying Phantoms - many of whom are capable of adapting to the situations they are surrounded with.

 

[Fyod]

Also it is possible to regain control on RTH, usually within a couple seconds when the Phantom starts returning and the link has better signal, unless your controller is out of batteries, which you should always check. I have my Phantom set at 1500m (5000ft} distance without modification and I've never lost remote link, even in rural areas. I could go further, but 1500 has tested best and returns quickly. My friend often lost remote link on his Vision+, which has much worse distance capability without modification. He later lost it because his video link froze and it never returned, can't say much more since I wasn't there at the time.

 

[BSquared]

Congratulations, you repeated what I wrote. But the point was that the non-vision does not have any Wifi identifiable transmission.
I don't see what argument you're attempting to make with SMD parts. Of course its SMD, it's 2015. Having throughole boards in the Phantoms would be ludicrous. I also don't understand where you get the notion that I've never taken the Phantom apart. I've been in the belly at least a dozen times and made modifications I deemed necessary or worthwhile. I design PCBs and electronic devices for a living.

Wunderbar! However, you missed the through holes in the main board, the secondary receiver board under the main board, and a bunch of others. First place to look is directly under the GPS connector. I'll let you find the rest.

Try the antenna modifications. They will help a great deal! The petal style shows some very good thought.


Allow me to just quote the remote specs from any DJI reseller site (and this is for the Phantom 1, which is a couple years old).



Frq. hopping is also used by Futaba (among many) and is able to change frequencies several hundred times per second.
Another good example of frequency hopping spread spectrum are today's bluetooth modules.
802.11b/g/a (Wifi) use direct sequence spread spectrum.

I have not seen b/g/a WiFi in years. Everything is at least /n. We are already up to 5.4GHz on WiFi equipment now.

I respect your experience in other similar industries, but the drone industry is very fast at adopting the newest affordable tech that could've been deemed too expensive to build or too crazy just a few years back. And the rollercoaster keeps going. Search google for pictures of what the PCBs look like in Phantom 3's.

Today they are "called" drones. We did it with fixed wing and even an autopilot back in the late '80s and through the '90s. The 55lb limit has been there, you simply had to have it inspected when you went over it. My son and I have owned and flown turbine powered aircraft during the '90s. Too many think that since it has a rotor blade that it is new. Try Hirobo shuttle and the Concept 60SR. Try that without a gyro that does anything but "attempt" to overcome the tail rotor.

I have neither want nor desire. What in the world do I want to look at another version for? That's like acquiring Walkera and Inspire pictures and manuals when I have no intention on acquiring either of them.

You youngsters have to keep up with what is coming beyond D-Star. That would be the fourth module in the TS-2000. It is already over 12 years old. Most of us have brought out the 10.695 IF to work with SDR. Even though I use the RaspberryPI Quad core 900Mc to provide the broad SDR spectrum from 1.8 through UHF. I do design PCBs, just not a lot of them since I usually do prototypes with a bunch I have made up for that purpose.

Regarding througholes in SMT systems, take a good look at the voltage regulators in satellite receivers. They indeed have througholes to allow excess heat to dissipate. Very common when the input frequency from direct satellite frequencies are in the 34Ghz and up region, then use double balanced mixers to bring a resultant mix down to around 10Ghz. One can tap off just before it leaves the vertical and horizontal polarization combiner to get exactly what those of us whom are into microwave work to enable us to reverse such an off-center fed dish to feed a 10Ghz signal without the shadow of a central supported feed which reduces the outbound signal strength by way too many db when trying EME work. Just FYI.

 

[Illina]

There have already be reports of serious injuries and even one baby in a carriage hit.

The baby in the stroller was hit by debris from the bird or something after it crashed onto the street. More media sensationalizing.

 

[BSquared]

That has already addressed. IOW the laws/rules/regulations, (That would be the CFR part!) Code of Federal Regulations. The injury required nothing more than a band aid. Next issue.

 

[Fyod]

I should have stated *consumer drone industry*. UAVs go back decades of course.
The reason I recommend having a peek at the Phantom 3 guts is that its a nice example of all the stuff that can be thrown onto a small board these days. The design is very nice, though many will argue having the ESCs all-in-one isn't a great idea, I agree.
But that's getting a bit off topic.

The discussion should be about the fact that it is not easy to locate drone operators, and while airports may be able to afford devices to do so, municipalities won't. And they sure won't have a "drone catcher" employee to scan the skies 24/7.
And as mentioned, of the ten of thousands of drones out there and the possibly millions of flight hours they've flown, the injuries and damage have been barely noticeable.
Peanuts will still be much more likely to kill people, at least for now.

 

[BSquared]

Ah yes, I can spot througholes already, and I haven't even begun. Too much crap all in one place, and the heat will get to it faster than the P2s.

 

[Fyod]

Those aren't through-holes per se, rather solder pads for the motors and power input. The four wider holes are screw mounting points.

 

[Bryce]

Not sure where you're getting this from. Maybe your craft behaves differently than mine. My Phantom does not descend when in RTH unless it has arrived over its home point.

Also, why would I leave my RTH minimum height at default or set my RTH height at 60 feet when I have 100 ft. trees and sloping upward hills all around me? My RTH height on my Phantom is set at 180 feet, and it's set by me based on my surroundings here where I live. There are no chimneys around here that are anywhere close to 180 feet.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just think there are a lot of capable pilots who are flying Phantoms - many of whom are capable of adapting to the situations they are surrounded with.

Be careful using basic logic and facts here....