Is this the reason they are falling out of the sky???

The problem has nothing to do with the "old" design. The new design was _only_ done to save cost in manufacture. Most of the issues were due to colder batteries reporting a charge higher then was really in the battery and then the battery being put under full load. This caused them to drop to the critical charge level that DJI set and they turned off to protect themselves. This has been addressed in the 1.6 firmware release.

We don't know this. That's the DJI PR machine. Do you think they would ever ADMIT to a problem with all the older hardware out there. Would probably take a class action. It would be a PR nightmare, slow their sales,and create a warranty/recall backlog. This is just what they are TELLING the public.

Exactly. Want to know why these things are dropping? People aren't applying 1.6 to fix the problem.

That's not the 'why", but may help. It's a band aid.

There is no actual proof that they changed motors to save cost .. That's just people with the old motors trying to convince themselves what they have is better.

I do however agree a lot of it may be due to the cold & people not upgrading to 1.6.

I have a p3a with the old Motors and a p3p with the new ones and personally prefer the new ones (so far) in every aspect.

I'm now wondering if the new firmware is somehow optimized for the 800kv motors and when the p3 is pushed its overloading the mosfets on the older centre boards with the 960kv motors? Reminiscent of what seemed to be happening to some people when DJI revised the motors on the p2v+ and ran them with the old esc's and people were having issues ??

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Agree Canada. It's just what we are being told from DJI.

My bird fell out of the sky at the end of October. Perfect conditions, sunny, inside the parking lot of my hometown park at the top of a mountain. No powerlines. Battery at 94% I warmed up my P3A at 50 feet. I closed up my truck, and got ready to video the entire length of the park. Lanyard on, iPad mini being my eyes, 20/20. Left joystick up!!! the motors stopped, and he came down in a hurry. The camera smashed right off, the legs bent but not broken, the body not broken, but opened up and shut back as as a couple of the tabs were now exposed from the landing. The blades were in tact. I sent the unit to California, and it was back to me within 3 weeks. I live in Vancouver, BC all at DJI's expense. I had asked for a synopsis of what was discovered to no avail.They only provided a list of the materials that were replaced. Body, Legs, Camera.

They fixed it under warranty, but never explained the problem you had. They couldn't really. A s***storm would follow with the hundreds of thousands sold to date. From what I've read recently, DJI are thinking of going public, and consider themselves a 10 Billion dollar company. Would't help an IPO much.

Bow To Your Billionaire Drone Overlord: Frank Wang's Quest To Put DJI Robots Into The Sky

http://gizmodo.com/*******-crashes-drone-into-seattles-great-wheel-1742072556

THOSE DAM NEW MOTORS AGAIN !!

Keith, those are the "OLD" motors?

SD
 
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We don't know this. That's the DJI PR machine. Do you think they would ever ADMIT to a problem with all the older hardware out there. Would probably take a class action. It would be a PR nightmare, slow their sales,and create a warranty/recall backlog. This is just what they are TELLING the public.



That's not the 'why", but may help. It's a band aid.



Agree Canada. It's just what we are being told from DJI.



They fixed it under warranty, but never explained the problem you had. They couldn't really. A s***storm would follow with the hundreds of thousands sold to date. From what I've read recently, DJI are thinking of going public, and consider themselves a 10 Billion dollar company. Would't help an IPO much.



Keith, those are the "OLD" motors?

SD

Finally someone who gets it ! Thank you solar ! You hit the nail on the head. Another question I have is, for people who have unexplained crashes and have returned their phantom for warranty repair, what specifically has DJI replaced ? If you had old Motors did you get old motors back ?


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We don't know this. That's the DJI PR machine. Do you think they would ever ADMIT to a problem with all the older hardware out there. Would probably take a class action. It would be a PR nightmare, slow their sales,and create a warranty/recall backlog. This is just what they are TELLING the public.



That's not the 'why", but may help. It's a band aid.



Agree Canada. It's just what we are being told from DJI.



They fixed it under warranty, but never explained the problem you had. They couldn't really. A s***storm would follow with the hundreds of thousands sold to date. From what I've read recently, DJI are thinking of going public, and consider themselves a 10 Billion dollar company. Would't help an IPO much.



Keith, those are the "OLD" motors?

SD
My point, He crashed it into that wheel because of bad motor, bad firmware, bad compass , bad battery, no way it was it the pilot, it has to be DJI to blame again.....
 
Ah .. I now get what you were saying Keith !!


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My point, He crashed it into that wheel because of bad motor, bad firmware, bad compass , bad battery, no way it was it the pilot, it has to be DJI to blame again.....
I've read through that article and comment several times now and still can't find any clues that identify the cause of this "crash"... how did you identify that it was caused by a bad aircraft instead of pilot?o_O

Or am I missing your sarcasm in between the lines?... :confused:
 
We don't know this. That's the DJI PR machine. Do you think they would ever ADMIT to a problem with all the older hardware out there. Would probably take a class action. It would be a PR nightmare, slow their sales,and create a warranty/recall backlog. This is just what they are TELLING the public.

We don't now otherwise either. The problem is then that people _claim_ the new motors are better and people buy into it. When really they have nothing at all to back it up. So then a lot of people think they have defective motors. If someone has something to actually show that there are any issues with the old motors, please feel free to post this information. There are thousands and thousands of people flying with the old motors without any issues with them. Is this not enough to show that they are not defective in any way?
 
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We don't now otherwise either. The problem is then that people _claim_ the new motors are better and people buy into it. When really they have nothing at all to back it up. So then a lot of people think they have defective motors. If someone has something to actually show that there are any issues with the old motors, please feel free to post this information. There are thousands and thousands of people flying with the old motors without any issues with them. Is this not enough to show that they are not defective in any way?

Sorry for the long winded post. Slow day at work and I'm bored.

You are right, and I agree tcope. Not having an understanding of actually what is happening leads people to guess, hypothesize and surmise for lack of better terms. We really don't know what is going on, but hear all the horror stories. It's hard with so much technology in the hands of newcomers (and veterans) to actually get good data. We then speculate, and it compiles and spirals out of control, unnecessarily. This is a forum though, so we will get all sides of the public's opinions and that is great (mostly).

I've been using Lipos since they came out, in everything from cars, boats, helicopters, planks of all sizes, etc. It was a learning curve for all of us moving from NiXx to Lipo's. We would puff them, short them, and in the worst cases, catch them on fire. Learning the remaining capacity was a challenge at first, along with the 80% rule, CC/CV charging logic, storage levels, charging care, etc.

Personally, I think the firmware is inaccurately reading and reporting battery voltage. It may have something to do with the self discharge logic. Maybe it's the cold, but no one really knows. My opinion, people are taking off with partially charged batteries thinking they have plenty of capacity/current available. When pushed hard under these levels, they shut down. I really believe the firmware shouldn't allow a shutdown. I'd rather kill a battery (I have killed many in my travels) than the P3. If the magic voltage is 3.0V/cell, it should take a few seconds at this level to create a shutdown.

I've been flying RC long enough, past the stick banging phase, to understand how to ease in to control inputs to avoid high current/stress if there is a current delivery concern. I'm sure from my past I will crash eventually. It happens if you fly something long enough, and I already accept that. I've never been able to have an RC craft replaced from a manufacturer before. I've crashed more than I care to admit. You build them and take responsibility for your actions and knowledge, or lack of it. One of the reasons a club was paramount to success. To find people who have experience and have been through the trials and tribulations of the skill you are trying to learn.

I realize these are finished products, to fly out of the box. There is a learning curve and it can be steep and extensive for some who are excited and impatient. You know we rarely read instructions! That being said, these GPS assisted MR's are by far the easiest new RC skill to master for a newbie. Anyone can be successful following a few guidelines. With so many out there, we hear of less than 1% having troubles, and will never really know the truth with the limited information.

SD
 
We don't know this. That's the DJI PR machine. Do you think they would ever ADMIT to a problem with all the older hardware out there. Would probably take a class action. It would be a PR nightmare, slow their sales,and create a warranty/recall backlog. This is just what they are TELLING the public.

Yes, like i said before, it could be the old motors. Or it could be aliens. Both have an equal amount of evidence, i.e. nada.

Most evidence points to lack of sufficient knowledge and experience. And maybe a few hardware failures.
 
Personally, I think the firmware is inaccurately reading and reporting battery voltage. It may have something to do with the self discharge logic. Maybe it's the cold, but no one really knows. My opinion, people are taking off with partially charged batteries thinking they have plenty of capacity/current available. When pushed hard under these levels, they shut down. I really believe the firmware shouldn't allow a shutdown. I'd rather kill a battery (I have killed many in my travels) than the P3. If the magic voltage is 3.0V/cell, it should take a few seconds at this level to create a shutdown.
Again, 1.6. Why do you think it's a bandaid? It's a fix, however I would call it incomplete and they need to take battery shut down out of the behavior, period. But I wouldn't call it a bandaid. It's a fix and if you avoid it for a little more speed, you're taking your chances big time. This is not a firmware that should be ignored or avoided imo. Some fixes should absolutely be taken seriously and this is one of them. I think it would be foolish to think the optimization in 1.6 is only a single thing. I'm sure a number of things went into ensuring that if your bird drops from the sky, it will be very unlikely it's because of the previous battery problems pre 1.6.
 
Again, 1.6. Why do you think it's a bandaid? It's a fix, however I would call it incomplete and they need to take battery shut down out of the behavior, period. But I wouldn't call it a bandaid. It's a fix and if you avoid it for a little more speed, you're taking your chances big time. This is not a firmware that should be ignored or avoided imo. Some fixes should absolutely be taken seriously and this is one of them. I think it would be foolish to think the optimization in 1.6 is only a single thing. I'm sure a number of things went into ensuring that if your bird drops from the sky, it will be very unlikely it's because of the previous battery problems pre 1.6.
I respectfully think it's a band-aid because it's not addressing the root of the problem. I don't really know as it's all speculation right now. This is just MHO from reading all the posts.

It came out so quickly after 1.5.003. and it removed performance from previous working state as a "fix". I believe it's robbing Peter to pay Paul, and not getting at the real problem. Just a quick fix for damage control, avoid bad PR and more warranty claims.

I agree it's an incomplete, non permanent solution and believe even newer firmware will be forthcoming shortly. It's a smart and necessary move on DJI's part. They had to do something, but I think there's more going on than they lead us to believe.

SD
 
The battery is undersized for the job.
Pretty simple.

This is exacerbated at low temperatures.
 
I could be crazy or grasping at straws but with all these P3's falling out of the sky I have been trying to figure out what the common denominator is.

So far something I seem to have noticed is that the ones failing midair with no explanation have the older motor style? Which means they have the older ESC centre board. Is there maybe an issue with the original centre board or motors, that prompted DJI to make the revision to the 2312a motors and v2 centre board, that is causing these machines to commit suicide ?? If this is the case maybe it will help expedite the warranty / replacement process ?


Please give me your experience if you have had an unexplained crash.

6107eeac838211e0064543da3dca5338.jpg



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My gut says its a combination of things but not upgrading ALL the batteries maybe the leading cause. At least that's how I'm justifying to myself not to worry about it
 
Excuse my lack of knowledge due to being a newbie. How would one tell if he had new or old style motors on the advanced?

Thanks :)


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Look at the first post picture


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So what's the skinny on the lowdown.. I can't be bothered to read the whole thread.

Do we have a definitive answer yet??
 
So what's the skinny on the lowdown.. I can't be bothered to read the whole thread.

Do we have a definitive answer yet??


No just ideas / brainstorming / etc. my guess is that we won't ever get official answers from DJI


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No just ideas / brainstorming / etc. my guess is that we won't ever get official answers from DJI


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Oh blimey... Who was asking DJI for an "official answer"?.. that was never going to happen
 
Oh blimey... Who was asking DJI for an "official answer"?.. that was never going to happen

Only way I can see of a definitive answer one way or the other.

Seems that:
- there's a possibility of there being some issue with the older esc centerboard
- the new motors are definitely more efficient & produce less heat / longer flight times
- people should be upgrading their batteries to 1.060 to deal with the cold weather / partial charge issue (partially charged batteries when used in the cold can have unexpected voltage drops causing the phantom to shut down midair to protect the battery from damage)
- improper IMU calibrations and other operator error is defiantly partially to blame as well




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