Is the 500m overall height limit enforced by the app or by the firmware?

[Wibble]

But if you lose control and it isnt your fault who is to blame? A bit like when Google autonomous cars become popular. If it goes haywire do you prosecute the owner or Google?
The laws are so way behind technology it is scary.

Was he prosecuted on the evidence of his Youtube flight I wonder?

I have seen several people on here who I will NOT name who have broken clear laws in the UK and posted the evidence on Youtube. Flying over 400' for example. Perfectly safe flight etc etc but the powers that be will use any excuse.

 

[Trumple]

But if you lose control and it isnt your fault who is to blame? A bit like when Google autonomous cars become popular. If it goes haywire do you prosecute the owner or Google?
The laws are so way behind technology it is scary.

Was he prosecuted on the evidence of his Youtube flight I wonder?

I have seen several people on here who I will NOT name who have broken clear laws in the UK and posted the evidence on Youtube. Flying over 400' for example. Perfectly safe flight etc etc but the powers that be will use any excuse.

The user is to blame, always has been that way. If you park your car on a hill, walk away, and the handbrake somehow fails later, sending the car zooming down the hill, ploughing into cars, pedestrians and buildings, YOU are liable for the damages it causes, despite it not being your direct fault. Of course you won't be tried the same way as if you were driving it directly, but you will share some of the liability. The rest of the blame lies with the manufacturer.

As for how the guy was found, if you take a look at the link to the CAA website it'll tell you - the plane was recovered and the police got hold of the footage. He was traced through his numberplate that appeared in a part of the video we didn't see. I don't think the CAA are quite in a position to trawl the web and prosecute based solely on YouTube videos, but with that said:

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?appid=7&mode=detail&nid=2364

Someone brought this video to the attention of the CAA and the CAA swooped in and prosecuted. So yes, you shouldn't be doing illegal stuff in the first place, and if you do, don't post it on YouTube!

 

[Wibble]

I should have read the link first.

I agree if you park your car on a hill etc then you are to blame but what happens with a self driving car. Basically it will be a robot and you will not be in control. What happens then? What happens if there is a glitch and the car hits someone? Who is to blame then?
It was different when the driver had FULL control. But things will be changing in mind boggling ways as robots become more common.
People may not realise it but drones are getting pretty similar to robots. Someone is launching a fully automatic drone for survey work. It takes off by itself - flies around taking photos or videos and then lands. Let's face it the DJI is almost capable of that already.

 

[eMaX]

Depends on where you are flying on this planet. Here's my experience: I'm living in the mountains, and have been using the drone on rescue missions. Problem is that if you fly over a ridge, your RTH doesn't really help if the copter doesn't go over +500m. So that's why you can override the setting when you've RTH active, and go higher - I went up to +800 m easily, and was then able to land it safely - the descent took only about 10 % battery power. Note also that I've read somewhere that some newer version of the firmware is said to "fix" that behavior where you could go higher on RTH. Which of course makes me never upgrade the firmware...

And yes, I don't think people should fly that high normally, yet I think it should be left to the operator, as there are definitely situations where you do want to use that - if I've to search for someone I want to have my copter fly up there and look for him.

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

I looked into this extensively. There is a limit in the DJI app itself, which prevents you setting the max height limit above 500m. There is also a hard limit in the firmware (at least there was 2 months ago) and it could not be circumvented without decrypting and modifying the firmware, which looks very difficult. The Litchi app folks might believe they've found a way to set the limit beyond 500m, but the real question is what happens when you actually try to fly above 500m - my bet is that the firmware will still prevent it. DJI has worked hard to keep us from flying so high.

It's possible the developer / SDK firmware doesn't have this restriction.

There's a config file in the DJI app that defines the flight controller parameters and their ranges. Interestingly, while most of the flags have a range from 0 to 1, the "altitude limit enable" flag has the range set to from 1 to 2. If you tell the flight controller to set the value to 0, it gets set to 1. What I haven't gotten around to trying yet, is to set the limit enable value to 2. It's possible this fools the flight controller into thinking the limit is turned off. It would be possible to try this by making a modified version of the DJI GO Android app.

 

[eMaX]

I looked into this extensively. There is a limit in the DJI app itself, which prevents you setting the max height limit above 500m. There is also a hard limit in the firmware (at least there was 2 months ago) and it could not be circumvented without decrypting and modifying the firmware, which looks very difficult. The Litchi app folks might believe they've found a way to set the limit beyond 500m, but the real question is what happens when you actually try to fly above 500m - my bet is that the firmware will still prevent it. DJI has worked hard to keep us from flying so high.

It's possible the developer / SDK firmware doesn't have this restriction.

There's a config file in the DJI app that defines the flight controller parameters and their ranges. Interestingly, while most of the flags have a range from 0 to 1, the "altitude limit enable" flag has the range set to from 1 to 2. If you tell the flight controller to set the value to 0, it gets set to 1. What I haven't gotten around to trying yet, is to set the limit enable value to 2. It's possible this fools the flight controller into thinking the limit is turned off. It would be possible to try this by making a modified version of the DJI GO Android app.

No, as I just wrote, you can definitely go higher - I was over +800 m. Fly it out a bit, then activate RTH, and prevent it from doing so by pulling fully back, while going up. Once you're up, the copter will slowly descend to its +500 max height limit, but it will do so only the moment you switch off RTH. If you leave it on, you can also fly around, but have to compensate for that the moment you take your fingers off the controls, instead of hovering, it'll come back to you. Oh yes, and when I write +800m, my actual height was like 3.8 km, flying in the mountains... The copter has no problems with that (as others have questioned).

 

[Chris Vedeler]

I will find out tomorrow if it can fly higher than 500 meters. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Trumple]

I should have read the link first.

I agree if you park your car on a hill etc then you are to blame but what happens with a self driving car. Basically it will be a robot and you will not be in control. What happens then? What happens if there is a glitch and the car hits someone? Who is to blame then?
It was different when the driver had FULL control. But things will be changing in mind boggling ways as robots become more common.
People may not realise it but drones are getting pretty similar to robots. Someone is launching a fully automatic drone for survey work. It takes off by itself - flies around taking photos or videos and then lands. Let's face it the DJI is almost capable of that already.

It'll still be your fault. Cruise control is the automated control of your car's speed. If you leave the car on cruise control, it is still your responsibility to alter the speed when necessary. In the same way, you still need to take over from self-driving drones/cars if necessary

I looked into this extensively. There is a limit in the DJI app itself, which prevents you setting the max height limit above 500m. There is also a hard limit in the firmware (at least there was 2 months ago) and it could not be circumvented without decrypting and modifying the firmware, which looks very difficult. The Litchi app folks might believe they've found a way to set the limit beyond 500m, but the real question is what happens when you actually try to fly above 500m - my bet is that the firmware will still prevent it. DJI has worked hard to keep us from flying so high.

It's possible the developer / SDK firmware doesn't have this restriction.

There's a config file in the DJI app that defines the flight controller parameters and their ranges. Interestingly, while most of the flags have a range from 0 to 1, the "altitude limit enable" flag has the range set to from 1 to 2. If you tell the flight controller to set the value to 0, it gets set to 1. What I haven't gotten around to trying yet, is to set the limit enable value to 2. It's possible this fools the flight controller into thinking the limit is turned off. It would be possible to try this by making a modified version of the DJI GO Android app.

I really hope you're wrong about the firmware hard limit, but I have a feeling you might be right.
Eagerly awaiting Chris Vedeler's definitive experiment results.

No, as I just wrote, you can definitely go higher - I was over +800 m. Fly it out a bit, then activate RTH, and prevent it from doing so by pulling fully back, while going up. Once you're up, the copter will slowly descend to its +500 max height limit, but it will do so only the moment you switch off RTH. If you leave it on, you can also fly around, but have to compensate for that the moment you take your fingers off the controls, instead of hovering, it'll come back to you. Oh yes, and when I write +800m, my actual height was like 3.8 km, flying in the mountains... The copter has no problems with that (as others have questioned).

Thanks for the details regarding how the RTH height-exceeding works. I suspected it would descend to 500m if left alone.

I will find out tomorrow if it can fly higher than 500 meters. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Best of luck! I hope it works I'm off to Switzerland soon so would be nice to fly up the mountains a little, but I'll have to double check the laws.

 

[eMaX]

I will find out tomorrow if it can fly higher than 500 meters. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Just make sure you've enough battery to land. It doesn't help if you've 50m more to come down and you run out of battery and your bird flies like a stone. Of course I assume that you check with your local laws if you're allowed to do so. Note that very clearly this is not "line of sight" - you'll not be able to even see the bird if you're over like +250 m or so.

Having said that, I've safely landed straight down from +800 m starting the descent at 30% battery, and landing with 18 % battery - of course pulling down maximally. I've also timed CSC and restart, but while theoretically it would work out, I don't know whether it would manage to stabilize again - that's like a balls of steel test I've not yet felt ready to do

 

[eMaX]

It'll still be your fault. Cruise control is the automated control of your car's speed. If you leave the car on cruise control, it is still your responsibility to alter the speed when necessary. In the same way, you still need to take over from self-driving drones/cars if necessary



I really hope you're wrong about the firmware hard limit, but I have a feeling you might be right.
Eagerly awaiting Chris Vedeler's definitive experiment results.



Thanks for the details regarding how the RTH height-exceeding works. I suspected it would descend to 500m if left alone.



Best of luck! I hope it works I'm off to Switzerland soon so would be nice to fly up the mountains a little, but I'll have to double check the laws.

Tell me where and when, we could do some flying together

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

No, as I just wrote, you can definitely go higher - I was over +800 m. Fly it out a bit, then activate RTH, and prevent it from doing so by pulling fully back, while going up. Once you're up, the copter will slowly descend to its +500 max height limit, but it will do so only the moment you switch off RTH. If you leave it on, you can also fly around, but have to compensate for that the moment you take your fingers off the controls, instead of hovering, it'll come back to you. Oh yes, and when I write +800m, my actual height was like 3.8 km, flying in the mountains... The copter has no problems with that (as others have questioned).

I have done this too. It works but it's very annoying. Flying higher in RTH mode doesn't count if you ask me. This thread and my post is about disabling the regular 500m altitude limit in *normal* flight modes.

 

[eMaX]

I have done this too. It works but it's very annoying. Flying higher in RTH mode doesn't count if you ask me. This thread and my post is about disabling the regular 500m altitude limit in *normal* flight modes.

True. And yes, it's in the firmware, as you can see when you switch off the controller, it will still descend. Anyway, there's not so much to see up there, unless you specifically need to go there to look for something.

The real limit is signal quality. Doesn't help to fly high when you've no reception.

 

[Chris Vedeler]

Just make sure you've enough battery to land. It doesn't help if you've 50m more to come down and you run out of battery and your bird flies like a stone. Of course I assume that you check with your local laws if you're allowed to do so. Note that very clearly this is not "line of sight" - you'll not be able to even see the bird if you're over like +250 m or so.

I'll be flying over a mountain I have flown over many times. The summit is about 1500 feet (457 meters) heigher than where I take off. I'll keep the bird below 400 feet off the summit.

I can't imagine that DJI would make the bird drop out of the sky if you try to go over 500 meters even if there is a firmware limit.

Battery shouldn't be an issue as I've done this flight before up to 500 meters. 600 meters shouldn't take more than another minute or two. I don't plan on staying up that high for more than a moment before coming home. This is to be a test.

The line of sight rule is so out of date. The spirit of the law is to make sure you keep control and to keep from injuring somebody or property. I fly over open desert and I keep control. I also fly where no planes should be flying, at least that low.

 

[Chris Vedeler]

My hack works. I couldn't wait and so decided to fly tonight. I went straight up 2000 feet (the limit I set in Litchi.) It worked flawlessly. I can confirm that there is no firmware set limit of 500 meters.

 

[Prometeo]

Dear Chris
You just cost me $2000 ;-)
I was holding my decision to get the P3 for repressing things like this of the maximum altitude.

I live in Cost Rica and we have various mountains which we like to hike and bike!

Give us more info about your experiment please!

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...rripo_National_Park-Province_of_San_Jose.html

http://wikitravel.org/en/Chirripo_National_Park

 

[Chris Vedeler]

Dear Chris
You just cost me $2000 ;-)
I was holding my decision to get the P3 for repressing things like this of the maximum altitude.

I live in Cost Rica and we have various mountains which we like to hike and bike!

Give us more info about your experiment please!

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...rripo_National_Park-Province_of_San_Jose.html

http://wikitravel.org/en/Chirripo_National_Park

Sorry about that.

Here is the post with instructions on doing the hack:
http://www.phantompilots.com/threads/500-meter-limit-altitude-hack.51686/

 

[nhoover]

My hack works. I couldn't wait and so decided to fly tonight. I went straight up 2000 feet (the limit I set in Litchi.) It worked flawlessly. I can confirm that there is no firmware set limit of 500 meters.

Great news - was hoping you'd find that.

 

[Trumple]

My hack works. I couldn't wait and so decided to fly tonight. I went straight up 2000 feet (the limit I set in Litchi.) It worked flawlessly. I can confirm that there is no firmware set limit of 500 meters.

Fantastic news, good work Chris, thanks for testing it for us!

 

[LordEvil]

Trying to understand this thread. Before you just click I agree I know my settings are over the suggested FAA flight restrictions or something like that. Did they upgrade the app and now no matter what you are restricted to 500M? Is that only for height or did they restrict distance as well?

 

[khanz4996f]

i am from a place Where Himalayas, Hindukush and karakoram mountain ranges meet and i live in a valley. all mountains surrounding the valley are over 600m high and secondly there is no legal limit or requirement of flying a drone at a certain height or distance in Pakistan. thirdly for safety of the drone i want to fly it over 700m so i cannot be shot down by small arms fire.

and why does your website say:

Max Service Ceiling Above Sea Level 6000 m (Default altitude limit: 120 m above takeoff point) ?????

DJI is there any way i can take my phantom 3 adv higher then 500m ?