Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS?

[Curb]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

I believe in the UK the CAA stipulate that any light UAV is to be operated within 500m of the operator or to the limit of vision, whichever is furthest. I fear getting caught letting your P2 fly autonomously in the UK could land you with a £2500 fine

This may attract the attention of the legislators and I have a real fear that if there any accidents involving members of the public we will face some kind of licencing.

Unfortunately I’m with you on that. The writing is on the wall because of the actions of a few. I can’t see that the CAA will tolerate it much longer without some sort of regulation and licensing. I recently carried out liability insurance and am looking into RPAS Certification with a view to operating commercially however I wonder if this will be the base requirement in the future…..

Are the CAA stipulations for commercial users of light UAV - or is that for all and any UAV's whatsoever? Totally new to all of this and had a FC40 since Friday - already considering a P2 for all the extra options and functions including GS (and longer fight times with the battery).

 

[goldfishrock]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

Are the CAA stipulations for commercial users of light UAV - or is that for all and any UAV's whatsoever?

The rules are across the board for leisure and commercial operation. For commercial operators there are additional rules and regs they have to abide by such as an operators license and insurance.... this applies if you accept any payment for work carried out by your drone.

In short the important ones for the majority of us in the UK are

No higher than 400ft from where it takes off from
No more than 500m horizontally away from the operator (and not out of sight)
No night flying

You can find out more here
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?CATID=1995

 

[Mosleyh]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

It would be helpful for the P2 software to include geofencing, including max altitude. It knows where it is in 3 dimensions, so all it would take is coding, presumably. I know I'd feel better if I could set a hard ceiling for mine.

 

[goldfishrock]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

It would be helpful for the P2 software to include geofencing

I believe the old Naza used to allow this. Shame it was removed in V2

 

[WTFOver]

Phantom 2 with stock transmitter...4KM/2.5 miles

Just came in from getting 4000 meters/2.85 miles! I think that's my limit on the stock setup as it went into go home mode and after a few meters I flicked the switch and got control again. Had video all the way. Tried to record into my video camera feed but it wouldn't let me. Back on the ground with 7% battery left. Coming down from 200 meters I let it drop fast to land and almost toasted it! Apparently at that low of battery the C's aren't there. I tried to correct but still had a little 6" bounce. I can go further I'm sure when I get the 2 amp WiFi booster going on the transmitter but I think the battery is the limiting factor now. Hope the guys on RC Group figure the smart battery out so I can go with dual 5100's. First flights were as follows in meters: 850; 1250 (losing video)then went to the "WindSurfer Parabolic;1850;2000;3000 then finally 4000 meters. Flying at 120 meters high then to 230 meters to maintain line of sight.

In regard to the video link which has been pretty solid. Just need to figure how to record OSD to my Cannon HV30, to show telemetry I'm seeing.
I'm running band E channel 1.The Black Pearl has all 4 bands so it should match up with everything out there. Remember it has 2 receivers that can run the same channel or 2 different ones. It ran me $179 before ship from Range Video. At the time they didn't have the batteries. Now with battery it's $199 before ship. I ordered 2 batts(1000mAh-1.5 hr run time) and a charger for $65.Here is the manual "http://www.rangevideo.com/index.php/downloads/dl/file/id/37/rc801.pdf". Attached some photos of the WindSurfer parabolic that got me over the 1250 meter video hump, would probably be great on the transmitter too. "http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/template2/". I also pointed my video tx down for better coverage with the cloverleaf.[/IMG]


[/IMG]

 

[ianwood]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

So you're going 4,000 meters on the stock transmitter? :shock:

 

[WTFOver]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

So you're going 4,000 meters on the stock transmitter? :shock:

I'm as surprised as anybody else but now I am hooked!
That's my limit till I figure how to get more battery time and get my 2A WiFi booster on the trans going. The pics show the 2A booster on back but it's not hooked up. Got my cable yesterday (U.FL Mini PCI to RP-SMA Pigtail Antenna WiFi Cable) from Amazon and will have my 5V2A UBEC Saturday to pipe in 5V to it from a 2100 lipo. You could run it from the 4 AA's in the transmitter but I'm sure that would suck it down quick. I hope the booster will output the full 2A and not be dependent on the input for output. On the photos I accidentally had the "WindSurfer" Parabolic turned the wrong way. When in the correct position in focuses the signal onto the stock antenna. With the "WindSurfer" my diversity receiver never looks at the clover leaf antenna. I'm stepping out at lunch today and strapping a 5000mah to the bottom of the phantom just to check what all the extra weight might do to flight characteristics.

Update:
Tried with the heavy 5000mah battery taped to the bottom. Really had to keep giving it extra up to keep it in a hover. I imagine with that much weight I'd have to up the gain. Then I tried a 2100 mah that weighed a lot less. Went out to 2000 meter screwing around and up to 200 meters up. This time I was using a new smart battery I just got, first flight. Brought it down from 200 meters to 100 meters then at 25% battery showing I gave it down stick and came down fairly quick at 50 meters it started oscillating, you could hear the motors go back and forth. Needless to say it came down hard in a kind of wobble. Hit hard then bounced a little and went upside down and you could see on the GoPro footage dirt and rocks being sprayed upward as it settled on its back. I shut her down and inspected it. The battery was still taped on. 3 of the props were broken on a tip or two. Cleaned her up put the replacement props on and tried again WITHOUT the extra battery. Hovered great and no apparent damage. Double checked the motors and blew them out with compressed air. These are tough little suckers! I suppose that bit of extra weight and a first flight battery even at 25% could give enough oomph to stabilize. I was trying to give it power but it didn't seem to have an effect. Same thing when coming down fast on 7% battery the other day. Moral of the story: Don't come down hard figuring to power up late in the game!

 

[ianwood]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

You may want to look at where you can trim weight elsewhere and see if that brings you any benefit. Do you use a windsurfer on the controller TX as well or just the FPV?

 

[WTFOver]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

Looking into it. That why I pulled of the data link this time. Wish DJI would get the firmware update going for the Phantom 2 so I could use it. I am sure the WindSurfer would work on the 2.4 transmitter. I might check it out next time I'm at 4000 meters but at that point battery is the big problem. On the oscillating quick trip to the ground I'm thinking the soft props (bendable) with the bit of extra weight might have been a factor. The props are bending with the thrust then trying to compensate back and forth. Apparently a little weight (2100mah Lipo)is a lot on the phantom 2.

 

[Curb]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

Are the CAA stipulations for commercial users of light UAV - or is that for all and any UAV's whatsoever?

The rules are across the board for leisure and commercial operation. For commercial operators there are additional rules and regs they have to abide by such as an operators license and insurance.... this applies if you accept any payment for work carried out by your drone.

In short the important ones for the majority of us in the UK are

No higher than 400ft from where it takes off from
No more than 500m horizontally away from the operator (and not out of sight)
No night flying

You can find out more here
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?CATID=1995

Thanks for clearing that up GFR - I was very close to picking up the P2 just to increase range over the FC40 and trying to get much higher map shots and send it out a lot further than the 300m range of the 5.8 GHz I'm restricted to. Think I might just get a GoPro and upgrade the image quality instead. I live less than a mile away from East London Airport so better to be safe.

But anybody going beyond VR and or 400ft up in the UK is breaking the law? Wow. I didn't even think along those lines.

 

[WTFOver]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

So you're going 4,000 meters on the stock transmitter? :shock:

Video proof that a Phantom 2 can go 4.2km/2.5+!! I added the 2A booster but when I repositioned my video transmitter my reception got worse. I still had complete control though. I could see through the static most of the time to view the OSD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DffH6opm5go


Update 02/09/14: Just took it out twice today to 4000+ meters. As far as I can tell this is my limit because of the battery. Because I'm full bore out and back I seem to use up the juice. Came back from a run to 4000 meters that was 8 mps out and 18 mps back. Landed with 6%. That's cutting it to close! Second run in other direction 18 out and 7 back. Had to climb to 240 meters from start altitude to clear some hills at 3500-4200 meters. Got it back with 21%. As soon as I sort out the Video 5.8G transmitter antenna position I could go further as control on 2.4G with the 2A booster is no issue at all. But again the battery is the key. Great machine though! I'd think about a bigger one but this is so **** handy! Throw it and gear in a case and your ready anytime, anywhere. Now if I can just get my heart rate down when going out that far, finally got over the gumby fingers.

 

[Jimpic]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

3082 m today with my Phantom 2. I could have gone farther, but turned back as I didńt want to fly over houses and cars. Everything stock, no booster.
(video edit)

 

[WTFOver]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

3082 m today with my Phantom 2. I could have gone farther, but turned back as I didńt want to fly over houses and cars. Everything stock, no booster.

https://vimeo.com/86631914


Envoyé de mon iPad à l'aide de Tapatalk HD

I love this machine. Not listening to my better judgement I went out to 5km/3.2 miles. Had to come back backwards to keep video. Trying to figure cloverleaf placement. Hanging under center 6" would work if I could retract the antenna on landing. I would watch for loosing control after 3000 meters, that was our reliable limit even at 700 foot altitude with good line of sight.Great job!!!! Keep it up!!

 

[glauber27]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

How do you power the booster? Can you post a picture?

 

[Zinnware]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

So you're going 4,000 meters on the stock transmitter? :shock:

Remember.. he is flying a Phantom 2 -Non-Vision. They are known to go 6000 meters under complete control with a stock controller under the right conditions without any obstructions between the operator and the Phantom 2 (LOS). Obstructions include trees, buildings, hills, etc.

The Phantom 2 Vision does not have the same range and does not control on the same frequency as the Phantom 2 - non-vision.

 

[N017RW]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

check with your local laws. I was speaking with someone in the airport last night who was telling me their state won't let him fly outside line of sight anymore.

I think, a person can work around that by obtaining a HAM license- I am trying, with little success, to find out what that entails. I spent many years in communications, and still have all the tools and even a CLI meter- so I am hoping my foundations in voice, video, and data over ip along with the telco and coaxial experience will net me a shorter learning curve to get that licensing- I do not expect it to be a cake walk, but in my experience, once you get a cert o license, they are easy to renew with a modicum of self study each year.

I am sure that with new FCC regs being written, that, and maybe some newly (probably ill conceived) licenses will be required- and if that is the case, then there will be money to be made if you happen to be one of those initially few, licensed pilots- and I can be **** sure that folks who already fly real aircraft who want those positions will righteously so fill those spots first- who better, right? They already have a history of air travel procedure and policy, and radio experience to a degree. Perhaps it will be a 2 man team/unit combining pilot experience and communications experience... who knows, but a little common sense allows r/c aficionados to foresee some of what is to come.

A HAM license will not trump any current, proposed, or otherwise enacted LOS restrictions.

 

[Hughie]

Re: Is it possible for the phantom to operate way beyond LOS

check with your local laws. I was speaking with someone in the airport last night who was telling me their state won't let him fly outside line of sight anymore.

I think, a person can work around that by obtaining a HAM license- I am trying, with little success, to find out what that entails. I spent many years in communications, and still have all the tools and even a CLI meter- so I am hoping my foundations in voice, video, and data over ip along with the telco and coaxial experience will net me a shorter learning curve to get that licensing- I do not expect it to be a cake walk, but in my experience, once you get a cert o license, they are easy to renew with a modicum of self study each year.

I am sure that with new FCC regs being written, that, and maybe some newly (probably ill conceived) licenses will be required- and if that is the case, then there will be money to be made if you happen to be one of those initially few, licensed pilots- and I can be **** sure that folks who already fly real aircraft who want those positions will righteously so fill those spots first- who better, right? They already have a history of air travel procedure and policy, and radio experience to a degree. Perhaps it will be a 2 man team/unit combining pilot experience and communications experience... who knows, but a little common sense allows r/c aficionados to foresee some of what is to come.

A HAM license will not trump any current, proposed, or otherwise enacted LOS restrictions.

And in the UK, Radio Ameteurs License excludes transmission from an aircraft too.