Iphone6 died in cold question

[borschelrh]

I have read the various posts here and have researched what I can about iPhone batteries.

Yesterday, I was flying locally and my iPhone died immediately after launching. The temperature was -10C. I had charged the phone to 100% immediately before the flight so was surprised. I aborted the flight and came home.

Reading about the iPhone from Apple support they state very clearly the phone will not operate reliably below 0C and there are numerous postings showing this to be absolutely true. The logic Apple cites is that the battery chemistry will not function below freezing and that this pertains to all LiPo batteries. Clearly, this is true for the iPhone (although I have my doubts and am thinking there is a temperature sensor rather than a failure in battery chemistry) but my question is what about the LiPo's in the Phantom 4 or the controller? Do they have poor performance and failure as well in sub zero temperatures? So far, I haven't seen this on the drone at all so am curious what others might think.

I was using my iPhone 6 as my Mini iPad is no longer supported by Litchi or DJI. I am not particularly wedded to using an Apple product and am thinking to purchase something other than an iPhone but am curious if anyone knows of an Android phone which works in the cold?

 

[tevek]

Cannot really comment on the temperatures you are speaking of, but from memory the quad batteries are rated at between 0-40C, and from my experience my iPad and iPhone shut down at at roughly 38C (happened today) and the drone was approaching combustion. The apple products shut down before they fail, as per the on screen warning, and I need to park the kit up for a while before resuming. The performance of the lipo batteries are within a range of both charge/discharge rates versus temperature conditions and whilst you may find a phone/tablet that performs marginally better, you will still be governed by the performance of the drone batteries.
BTW what is snow?

 

[Philltayl]

Cannot really comment on the temperatures you are speaking of, but from memory the quad batteries are rated at between 0-40C, and from my experience my iPad and iPhone shut down at at roughly 38C (happened today) and the drone was approaching combustion. The apple products shut down before they fail, as per the on screen warning, and I need to park the kit up for a while before resuming. The performance of the lipo batteries are within a range of both charge/discharge rates versus temperature conditions and whilst you may find a phone/tablet that performs marginally better, you will still be governed by the performance of the drone batteries.
BTW what is snow?

SNOW is a horrible white substance that fall from the sky, very pretty to look at from inside a warm house but a pain in the rear if you have to go outside.

 

[Kirby Johnson]

I have read the various posts here and have researched what I can about iPhone batteries.

Yesterday, I was flying locally and my iPhone died immediately after launching. The temperature was -10C. I had charged the phone to 100% immediately before the flight so was surprised. I aborted the flight and came home.

Reading about the iPhone from Apple support they state very clearly the phone will not operate reliably below 0C and there are numerous postings showing this to be absolutely true. The logic Apple cites is that the battery chemistry will not function below freezing and that this pertains to all LiPo batteries. Clearly, this is true for the iPhone (although I have my doubts and am thinking there is a temperature sensor rather than a failure in battery chemistry) but my question is what about the LiPo's in the Phantom 4 or the controller? Do they have poor performance and failure as well in sub zero temperatures? So far, I haven't seen this on the drone at all so am curious what others might think.

I was using my iPhone 6 as my Mini iPad is no longer supported by Litchi or DJI. I am not particularly wedded to using an Apple product and am thinking to purchase something other than an iPhone but am curious if anyone knows of an Android phone which works in the cold?

Jesus people, find something to do. Go inside and fire up your Hot Wheels or Whak-A-Mole or something. It got down to 40F here the other day and life as we know it came to a screeching halt. Or snowmobile?

 

[JB63]

Yes, there are 3 batteries one must keep track of. The drone, controller, AND phone ... As for your question relating to the temperature of the drone battery, I read somewhere that, when the drone's sensor detects low temp, the battery warms itself up before allowing one to fly. In fact I did experience that few times while trying to fly in cold weather. The dji go warns of cold weather then displays that drone is too cold, and it's warming up. Usually takes 3-5 minutes.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

 

[cr6]

Jesus people, find something to do. Go inside and fire up your Hot Wheels or Whak-A-Mole or something. It got down to 40F here the other day and life as we know it came to a screeching halt. Or snowmobile?

Yeah, that's not an option here in Idaho. lol The winters are way too long & cold to be stuck indoors for 5 months out of the year. We actually had the first 2 days above freezing this past Sunday & Monday since the first week in December.

Android devices do much better in the cold. I've seen a number of YouTube videos over the past few weeks where people have had their iPhones shut down mid flight. The good news is you'll still have complete control over your Phantom or Inspire, or you can simply hit return to home if that happens, and that will bring your bird home. I would suggest keeping it within line of sight ashtrays during extreme cold temp flying. That or, use an Android device if you have one avail. My Nexus 7, Galaxy S5 & S7 Edge all do incredibly well in sub zero temps for extended periods of time. I was flying a couple weeks ago in -15F with a negative 23 wind chill and was able to fly 3 batteries with my P4P, (one after the other) without a problem.

As for snowmobiling....that's an extremely expensive hobby. But yeah, I get your point... I was huge into snowboarding until I messed up my spine. Folks around here LOVE their outdoor sports, which is another reason why I got my commercial drone license & started my own business. Year round work. [emoji106]

S7 Edge tap'n

 

[Kirby Johnson]

Yeah, that's not an option here in Idaho. lol The winters are way too long & cold to be stuck indoors for 5 months out of the year. We actually had the first 2 days above freezing this past Sunday & Monday since the first week in December.

Android devices do much better in the cold. I've seen a number of YouTube videos over the past few weeks where people have had their iPhones shut down mid flight. The good news is you'll still have complete control over your Phantom or Inspire, or you can simply hit return to home if that happens, ave that will being your bird home. I would suggest keeping it within line of sight during extreme cold temp flying. Or, use an Android device if you have one avail. My Nexus 7, Galaxy S5 & S7 Edge all do incredibly well in sub zero temps for extended periods of time. I was flying couple weeks ago in -15F with a negative 23 wind chill and was able to fly 3 batteries with my P4P, (one after the other) without a problem.

As for snowmobiling....that's an extremely expensive hobby. But yeah, I get your point... I was huge into snowboarding until I messed up my spine. Folks around here LOVE their outdoor sports, which is another reason why I got my commercial drone license & started my own business. Year round work. [emoji106]

S7 Edge tap'n

Yeah, on a serious note, does Apple use a different chemistry for their battery or something? As I understand it most Apple products do not have replaceable batteries. With Android, which i have always used, you just buy a few spares and carry in lieu of wagging a charger around. IE Boating and running a charting program on your phone. Knowing Apple, you are probably right, they just shut it down, to protect the battery which in essence costs the price of a new phone. With Android a knock off can be had on ebarf for $15 all day.
Thanks

 

[Kirby Johnson]

"We actually had the first 2 days above freezing this past Sunday & Monday since the first week in December. "

Bless you hardy souls who can live in that S**t, cause there is not room for all of us down here.

 

[borschelrh]

I am an expat American living in Hungary experiencing an unusually cold winter. I love the cold and do a lot of winter sports when possible.

I saw the warning about heating up IMU etc. for the Phantom 4 and it did take about 5 minutes to warm up. This was observed on the phone before it died which happened exactly as I launched so came as a big surprise. I thought I just couldn't see the screen in the sunlight but it was actually off. I turned it on again and it died immediately again so I quit the flight. Interesting that a few minutes later in the car it showed 91% charge.

I am thinking of using a hand warmer for the iPhone and could adapt a chemical one in a thin foam wrapper behind the phone (or maybe just duct tape one behind the phone). I also have seen an electrical battery bank with hand warmer function on AliExpress which might work equally well. I went ahead and ordered one as it is cheap enough and I can always use a battery backup. But, it probably won't arrive until late February. Even if it doesn't work for this application I can still use it as a hand warmer. 8000mAh New Hand Warmer Power Bank Multifunctional External Battery Pocket Heater Mobile Phone Portable PowerBank Free Shipping-in Power Bank from Phones & Telecommunications on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

There is also an app to run the CPU on the phone at 100% to raise the temperature inside the phone but I suspect that won't help at these temperatures. I'll try the chemical handwarmers tomorrow and see if that helps. Maybe that is a cheap enough solution for this problem.

The alternate would be to attach the phone to a 3D goggle and use that instead but I suspect it will still be too cold for it and it will still need warming. I want to solve this soon as I live on Lake Balaton and there are fascinating ice formations around on the lake plus the wonderful views of the surrounding countryside. I am also going snowboarding in Finland in March so would like to take the drone there as well. It is interesting as I also have a Xiaomi Yi II 4k on a 3D gimbal and neither of these have any problems when I am snowboarding. So, I think Apple has set the phone to cut off perhaps too early so as to avoid liability issues which might arise from operations at low temperatures. If the handwarmer idea works this would be of interest to people who operate in arctic conditions including drone use.

 

[jwt873]

I've flown in temperatures as low as -30C (22 below F).

But... I fly from my garage. I live in the country and my garage has a large picture window that faces open fields to my north. I can heat the garage, but don't normally. Still, keeping out of the wind makes a big difference. I only fly one battery and I'm only outside for no longer than 1/2 hour.

The effect of the cold is something I've watched for, but I haven't had my iPad Pro shut down on me yet.

 

[cstout]

"The performance of all batteries drops drastically at low temperatures; however, the elevated internal resistance will cause some warming effect because of efficiency loss during use. At –20°C (–4°F) most batteries stop functioning. Although NiCd can go down to –40°C (–40°F), the permissible discharge is only 0.2C (5-hour rate). Specialty Li-ion can operate to a temperature of –40°C but only at a reduced discharge rate; charging at this temperature is out of the question."
-Battery University, Discharging at High and Low Temperatures
​

Your iPhone is using a Li-ion battery and the ac is using LiPo. The battery in your ac pulls enough out of the battery from running the four motors to keep itself warm in moderate freezing conditions. The Li-ion battery in your phone is much more sensitive to cold, has no moving parts, and nothing to stress it to keep it warm.

Maybe try strapping one of those hand warming packets to the back of your phone if you must fly. Just be aware of the effects of prolonged cold exposure to your batteries.

 

[cstout]

Yeah, on a serious note, does Apple use a different chemistry for their battery or something? As I understand it most Apple products do not have replaceable batteries.
Thanks

Apple uses excellent Li-ion batteries with safety mechanisms in place for high and low temperatures to preserve the overall life of the battery. iPhone batteries are absolutely replaceable, but they are not "user replaceable" with a battery door. If you ever do need to replace an iPhone battery, the process is simple and outlined very clearly on iFixit.com.