Insurance? (USA)

I just read the ISO (insurance services organization) HO 3 - this is the standard policy or outline of a policy that most insurer's use. You should always get a copy of your own policy and read for yourself, but I'd be surprised in the liability section was dramatically different.

http://wps.aw.com/wps/media/objects/380 ... endixA.pdf

Of interest is that aircraft liability is excluded. However, our drones don't meet the definition of aircraft.

There is nothing in the liability section that would exclude coverage for an injury or property damaged caused by the Phantom (or any other similar craft) provided that the accident was not intentional and you were not in the course and scope of "business" when the accident occurred.

With that said, most people only have a couple hundred thousand in liability coverage. It would certainly be worthwhile to explore a personal umbrella policy.

For those without homeowners insurance, I would suggest picking up a tenants policy. For a reasonable price, you will have contents coverage for your personal stuff as well as a liability policy.
 
iResq said:
I just read the ISO (insurance services organization) HO 3 - this is the standard policy or outline of a policy that most insurer's use. You should always get a copy of your own policy and read for yourself, but I'd be surprised in the liability section was dramatically different.

http://wps.aw.com/wps/media/objects/380 ... endixA.pdf

Of interest is that aircraft liability is excluded. However, our drones don't meet the definition of aircraft.

There is nothing in the liability section that would exclude coverage for an injury or property damaged caused by the Phantom (or any other similar craft) provided that the accident was not intentional and you were not in the course and scope of "business" when the accident occurred.

With that said, most people only have a couple hundred thousand in liability coverage. It would certainly be worthwhile to explore a personal umbrella policy.

For those without homeowners insurance, I would suggest picking up a tenants policy. For a reasonable price, you will have contents coverage for your personal stuff as well as a liability policy.

Good point, and thanks for posting.
This would also apply to a golf ball you hit, that hit someone. Or, a baseball.......do you understand where I'm going with this?
It's all about Personal Liability. IF, you don't have assets.....you may someday. Remember, Judgements are good for 10 years, and can be renewed forever, unless contested.
We live in a very litigious time in the U.S. Everyone is out to make a "quick buck"...and your Phantom hitting them, however slight the injury, may just be the opportunity an Attorney is looking for, to sue you into the next Century. Be careful out there.
 
"Can you point me in the right direction that clearly shows the FAA has the legal authority to do that?
It's kind of OT-so you can PM me the Regulatory Authority, by section..if you can."

There has been exhaustive threads and discussions on this site regarding a high profile case currently being litigated in which the FAA has levied a $10K fine on an individual for just that....among other violations. Do some searching here. The defense attorney is arguing, among other things, that the FAA does not in fact have that level of punitive regulatory authority over drones. Sorry, I'm not going to take time to search out the specific statutes, but believe me they exist under the "experimental" aircraft regulations and the FAA believes they apply to UAV drones in addition to the loosely regulated civilian "experimental" aircraft they were initially intended for. If an insurance company thought they could duck out of a huge liability by agreeing with the FAA.....don't you think they would??

All this is supposed to be sorted out with the long and much anticipated "new" and UAV-specific regulations the FAA is supposed to produce on or before 2015.
 
Peter Patricelli said:
"Can you point me in the right direction that clearly shows the FAA has the legal authority to do that?
It's kind of OT-so you can PM me the Regulatory Authority, by section..if you can."

There has been exhaustive threads and discussions on this site regarding a high profile case currently being litigated in which the FAA has levied a $10K fine on an individual for just that....among other violations. Do some searching here. The defense attorney is arguing, among other things, that the FAA does not in fact have that level of punitive regulatory authority over drones. Sorry, I'm not going to take time to search out the specific statutes, but believe me they exist under the "experimental" aircraft regulations and the FAA believes they apply to UAV drones in addition to the loosely regulated civilian "experimental" aircraft they were initially intended for. If an insurance company thought they could duck out of a huge liability by agreeing with the FAA.....don't you think they would??

All this is supposed to be sorted out with the long and much anticipated "new" and UAV-specific regulations the FAA is supposed to produce on or before 2015.
Yea, I remember that case......
This also reminds me of FAR Part 103-Sport Aircraft(I think). It took the FAA years to come up with regulations pertaining to Ultra-light aircraft, etc.

But, I've been dealing with the FAA my entire flying career. I was a flight instructor and commercial helicopter pilot(over 20 years), and believe I have a pretty comprehensive knowledge of the FAR's. That being said-I won't add or further the argument here.

I will wait for the decision on the above mentioned case......
 
I would suggest getting a Personal Item addendum to your home owners or renters insurance policy... I got one for my P2V at an insured amount of $2000... It only cost me $30 a year... I chose $2k because I'm positive I will be adding a Multi-axis gimbal at one point soon... Not sure if it will be Rotor Pixel or DroneExpert or someone new... I figure it's gonna be another $300 or so more... Anywho... For $30 bucks a year and NO deductible, I can fly with a better peace of mine...
 
I hadn't even thought of the insurance thing. Living here in Northern Nevada, where most of my flying is either in parks during the week when everyone else is at work or school, or out in the middle of nowhere, my only concern is crashing - into sage brush. I'm thinking my exposure to law suits is extremely limited, but my exposure to crashes and burns is the same as everyone else. Being recently retired, I watch my pennies more than I ever have, so I guess I'll just take my chances.
 
I decided on the insurance thing before I received mine... I ordered it on Dec. 23rd and received on Jan. 2nd. While I was waiting to receive it, I spent many hours reading all the post in this forum and what got my attention the most was the series of "Fly-Aways"... I even had second thoughts on this purchase because, what if there was a defect or firmware issue that caused these fly-aways... after spending $1200, I would hate to lose this device or some battery fault causes it to fall from the sky... I decided to contact my State Farm agent and see what options I had and at ONLY $30 a year ($2.50 per month), I could be covered for flyaways, crashes, fell in a lake, stuck in a tall tree and cant get it... There is NO deductible as well... Why Not? You say your retired... imagine the cost to replace or repair this thing if it fell from 300 feet up... Instead spending another $800-1000+, your covered...
 
semaj said:
I decided on the insurance thing before I received mine... I ordered it on Dec. 23rd and received on Jan. 2nd. While I was waiting to receive it, I spent many hours reading all the post in this forum and what got my attention the most was the series of "Fly-Aways"... I even had second thoughts on this purchase because, what if there was a defect or firmware issue that caused these fly-aways... after spending $1200, I would hate to lose this device or some battery fault causes it to fall from the sky... I decided to contact my State Farm agent and see what options I had and at ONLY $30 a year ($2.50 per month), I could be covered for flyaways, crashes, fell in a lake, stuck in a tall tree and cant get it... There is NO deductible as well... Why Not? You say your retired... imagine the cost to replace or repair this thing if it fell from 300 feet up... Instead spending another $800-1000+, your covered...
Good info, thanks!!! I also have State Farm for my 2 cars.
Question; do you have a Homeowner's policy with them?? I'm wondering if they would extend the same coverage to me, without having Homeowners-just my 2 auto policies? I've been with them for years without a claim.
 
havasuphoto said:
Good info, thanks!!! I also have State Farm for my 2 cars.
Question; do you have a Homeowner's policy with them?? I'm wondering if they would extend the same coverage to me, without having Homeowners-just my 2 auto policies? I've been with them for years without a claim.

I doubt it, but it's worth a try. The underwriting behind a homeowner's policy is completely different than an auto policy (even without liability)...usually it has to be physically attached to the car to be able to include on that policy.
 
OI Photography said:
havasuphoto said:
Good info, thanks!!! I also have State Farm for my 2 cars.
Question; do you have a Homeowner's policy with them?? I'm wondering if they would extend the same coverage to me, without having Homeowners-just my 2 auto policies? I've been with them for years without a claim.

I doubt it, but it's worth a try. The underwriting behind a homeowner's policy is completely different than an auto policy (even without liability)...usually it has to be physically attached to the car to be able to include on that policy.
Bummer.
 
Rather than second hand (and conflicting) statements re: the AMA insurance plan...here are their specific guidelines:

Commercial General Liability Coverage (Effective March 31)
• AMA Liability Protection applies to bodily injury or property damage caused by an AMA member. Any AMA member who causes an accident resulting in an injury must report that accident immediately to AMA HQ.
• Applies to accidents arising from the modeling activities of model aircraft, rockets, cars and boats, in accordance with the AMA NATIONAL Safety Code(s).
• The per occurrence limit of coverage available by this policy is $2,500,000 involving bodily injury and/or property damage. These limits are for claims occurring during the policy period. Coverage is provided only for accidents arising from the model activities.
• A separate policy covers participation in FAI events outside of the United States and Canada. This policy has a $2,000,000 limit.
• There is no coverage for injury to a member to his own family (Household and Relative(s) living in the member’s household) for claims or suits.
• The policy does NOT cover business pursuits; that is any activity that generates income for a member beyond reimbursement of expenses, except this business pursuit exclusion does not apply to individual members providing modeling instructions for pay to AMA members.
• AMA insurance is “excess” to any other applicable coverage, such as homeowner’s.
• Has a $250.00 deductible (property damage only), which is the responsibility of the AMA member causing the accident.



Please note......NO exclusion or restriction to AMA events. There IS mention of possible exclusion for failing to adhere to the "AMA safety codes". There IS exclusion for any claims made for NON-modeling activity, and for COMMERCIAL use.
 
semaj said:
I decided on the insurance thing before I received mine... I ordered it on Dec. 23rd and received on Jan. 2nd. While I was waiting to receive it, I spent many hours reading all the post in this forum and what got my attention the most was the series of "Fly-Aways"... I even had second thoughts on this purchase because, what if there was a defect or firmware issue that caused these fly-aways... after spending $1200, I would hate to lose this device or some battery fault causes it to fall from the sky... I decided to contact my State Farm agent and see what options I had and at ONLY $30 a year ($2.50 per month), I could be covered for flyaways, crashes, fell in a lake, stuck in a tall tree and cant get it... There is NO deductible as well... Why Not? You say your retired... imagine the cost to replace or repair this thing if it fell from 300 feet up... Instead spending another $800-1000+, your covered...
I just talked to my State Farm Agent, and he told me that State Farm knows about Drones/Quads, and does NOT cover them, period.
He said the only coverage you could get, would be through your homeowner's policy, and that would cover you if it were stolen or damaged inside your house by flood of fire. There is NO coverage, other than that.

IF, you have the coverage you stated, it must be through a third party that is underwriting the policy. Can you provide us with the name of the underwriter?
Also-IF, you are covered, they would list the make/model/serial number of your aircraft specifically on the policy-or it would be clearly spelled out.....so, please double check your policy to make certain you have coverage.
 
havasuphoto said:
I just talked to my State Farm Agent, and he told me that State Farm knows about Drones/Quads, and does NOT cover them, period.
He said the only coverage you could get, would be through your homeowner's policy, and that would cover you if it were stolen or damaged inside your house by flood of fire. There is NO coverage, other than that.

IF, you have the coverage you stated, it must be through a third party that is underwriting the policy. Can you provide us with the name of the underwriter?
Also-IF, you are covered, they would list the make/model/serial number of your aircraft specifically on the policy-or it would be clearly spelled out.....so, please double check your policy to make certain you have coverage.

Did he comment on liability insurance? My bet with semaj is that his agent just wrote him an IM floater. If State Farm has a policy against insuring drones, the underwriting department will pick it up. Given an insiders knowledge of insurance companies and the speed in which they do anything, I would be surprised if SF actually has such a policy, particularly for something that a very small percentage of the population even knows about, let alone have experience with. I could be that your agent is familiar and he doesn't want it in his portfolio.
 
iResq said:
havasuphoto said:
I just talked to my State Farm Agent, and he told me that State Farm knows about Drones/Quads, and does NOT cover them, period.
He said the only coverage you could get, would be through your homeowner's policy, and that would cover you if it were stolen or damaged inside your house by flood of fire. There is NO coverage, other than that.

IF, you have the coverage you stated, it must be through a third party that is underwriting the policy. Can you provide us with the name of the underwriter?
Also-IF, you are covered, they would list the make/model/serial number of your aircraft specifically on the policy-or it would be clearly spelled out.....so, please double check your policy to make certain you have coverage.

Did he comment on liability insurance? My bet with semaj is that his agent just wrote him an IM floater. If State Farm has a policy against insuring drones, the underwriting department will pick it up. Given an insiders knowledge of insurance companies and the speed in which they do anything, I would be surprised if SF actually has such a policy, particularly for something that a very small percentage of the population even knows about, let alone have experience with. I could be that your agent is familiar and he doesn't want it in his portfolio.
My Agent called their "national" something or other.....in other words, he went to someone that knew more than him, about insuring the Phantom. I also specifically asked about Liability, and he said there was no coverage available.

I understand that SF is like a "franchise" for Insurance. And, that every branch has "discretion" when it comes to writing policies.
I was told to contact an Independent Agent, who would have access to more underwriters to see if there was any interest. I haven't done that yet.

Insurance, is kinda like playing the Lottery. You're paying in each month, to protect your investment. And, the Insurance company is taking your money-hoping they don't have to replace your investment. It's really that simple.

So, I find it hard to believe that there isn't someone in the Land we call the United States, that doesn't offer damage/replacement insurance on UAV's. You're right-it's still a very small percentage of the population. However; the investment is quite high. And, the risk is also quite high, that you could easily lose you're entire investment.

So, I have hopes that someone else finds something out there.
I've been to the Model Associations? site, and read their policy. Still not understanding it completely-whether or not I'm covered IF I'm not flying at a "sanctioned site", etc. I find it hard to believe that they would just offer a blanket 2.5 million dollar liability policy for all model aircraft operators, and NOT have them operating at a "sanctioned" field.
IF/When you get sued-is not the time to find out you're not covered ;)

Good thread.
 
ppdrone said:
what happens if you have 2 or more personal liability policies...do they all add up?

It all depends on the policy language. They can either respond in pro-rate, equally, or one would be primary and the other excess. The AMA policy clearly states excess.
 
Good info, thanks!!! I also have State Farm for my 2 cars.
Question; do you have a Homeowner's policy with them?? I'm wondering if they would extend the same coverage to me, without having Homeowners-just my 2 auto policies? I've been with them for years without a claim

Yes... I have a home policy... I thought it would be covered automatically under it, but only for theft and fire... That's when I was informed of the "Personal Item" policy... it piggy backs things... This covers my P2V in the case of anything else, including backing over it with my car or losing it in the ocean... For $30 a year, its worth it...
 
semaj said:
Good info, thanks!!! I also have State Farm for my 2 cars.
Question; do you have a Homeowner's policy with them?? I'm wondering if they would extend the same coverage to me, without having Homeowners-just my 2 auto policies? I've been with them for years without a claim

Yes... I have a home policy... I thought it would be covered automatically under it, but only for theft and fire... That's when I was informed of the "Personal Item" policy... it piggy backs things... This covers my P2V in the case of anything else, including backing over it with my car or losing it in the ocean... For $30 a year, its worth it...
Are you sure? Personal items normally only includes things within the home. So, if you back over in your driveway, you would be covered. If the Ocean was part of your backyard...I'd say you're covered.
BUT, unless there is something specific in the Policy that names the Phantom as being Insured-I wouldn't want to count on it.
Best to call and talk to an Agent that would be dealing with the claim, in the event you lost your Phantom in the Ocean, and specifically ask if your remote air vehicle is covered, away from your home. If so, I would get a Policy that specifically spells out the words Phantom Vision, and Covered for ???$$....just to be safe.

IF/When you fly into the Ocean, and call your Insurance Agent, is not the time to find out you were not covered.

Like I said a few posts up; some independent agents may provide this type of coverage. But, I would want it spelled out, just for CYA purposes.
 
ppdrone said:
what happens if you have 2 or more personal liability policies...do they all add up?

Not sure... but if you are referring to covering more than one UAV, simply increase your coverage amount... I informed my agent that I plan to acquire another UAV in the near future and was told I would only need to increase my coverage and the basic jargon describing my additional device(s)...
 

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