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I have a new p2, how do I learn to trust it?

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Discussion' started by martybabe, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. martybabe

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    Hey guys, I'm not new to multirotors, I have the fc40 and have had many brush-less ones before that. I took the plunge and ordered a none vision phantom 2 as an upgrade but having studied loads of videos and forums, well, frankly, I've scared myself stupid about flying it.

    All I seem to come across are tales of short lived batteries, total battery failure, firmware upgrades that are worse than they were prior to the update and a tendency to plummet to earth due to the vortex ring thing?

    It took me a while to feel comfortable with the fc40 but it's earned it's spurs and now flies over water and in and out of inaccessible places but the P2 just flies around my garden, I don't dare take it anywhere 'risky' for fear of it dying on me. I was gonna buy the zenmuse gimbal and the new Gopro 4 for it because I really enjoy flying and filming but that just adds to the worries.

    My dream phantom has become a backyard toy. Can anyone boost my confidence with the P2? am I making to much of the reported problems, are there any preventative measures I can take to minimize the risk of premature crash and burn syndrome? I'm not a rich man and I can ill afford to lose circa $1700 fully laden but more than that, it's the thought of losing my baby or worse still causing some damage to people or property.

    I love this hobby but I'm worried I have a ticking time bomb on my hands here, do any of you fly trouble free?

    Cheers
     
  2. arizeda

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    I've flown different multirotors before, and crashed my P2 this weekend with the h3-3d and GoPro. It flew away from me in GPS mode, wasn't responding to my inputs. Not a fun experience I'll tell you. I thought and hoped it would never happen to me, but it did.

    If I can give any advice, from now on I am triple checking my home lock is set (green flashing before taking off), waiting at least 3 minutes on the ground before taking off for it to grab signals it needs, as well as doing a compass calibration every single time before taking off. If it starts flying away again I'm going to try putting the switch in ATTI mode which I've heard /should/ regain me control.

    Best of all, get familiar with the startup procedure, exactly what all light flashes mean on your Phantom, and get comfortable with it first before you start packing payloads on it. Maybe start flying in big open fields, get some flights in so you're comfortable.

    Also go through the PC software so you know how your P2 is configured, and what failsafes are set e.g. Go home and land when battery warning appears, and flight distance limits in the software etc. for example by default if you fly > 400m out, you will lose some control of the craft until it automatically flies back into the configured limits.

    Good luck!
     
  3. IrishSights

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    Ive had over a hundreds flights with 3 batteries with no crashes, flyaways. I am not alone. The thousands of folks that have no problems just dont have a need to post about it. You only hear of the relatively few problem ones and most of those are down to pilot error. Get up there again. Do everything religiously and return home at 50% battery.
     
  4. martybabe

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    That's good to hear, if it's going to happen it will happen I guess, best I can do is make sure it's not because of something I have or have not done. What firmware are you on mate?
     
  5. IrishSights

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    Latest firmware. Many of these so called flyaways are not hardware fault related. Many can be simply explained. For example if you have no telemetry there is no indication how many satellites are locked in. If it is minimum for takeoff then away a pilot will go - full of confidence and at ease. Then he innocently gets a bit low or behind a single tree (he could still be in fairly open 'confident' ground) and he drops a satellite below the minimum and it drops into ATTI mode and drifts with the wind. The at ease pilot panics as he has a flyaway. Thats why practice flying in ATTI should be part of any pilots early self training. Then there are compounding factors, BLOS, nightflying, no check for homelock, no regular assessing battery status in Assistant software, strong winds on a return flight etc. Most are avoidable by discipline (checklist) and flight condition risk assessment. Also I am a believer that FPV with telemetry will make flying safer as you have satellite status, battery %/voltage, speed, distance, height etc. You can then make informed decisions about pre flight and during flight conditions.

    This is not really a 'plug it in, go fly' type of craft if you want to keep it. Sadly DJI bill it that way.
     
  6. fixedwing

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    I had a handful of minor crashes starting out, all clearly pilot fault. I have only had one 'issue' last week when my FPV/IOSD Mini jumped from 50% to 0% battery and lost few meters of altitude. I put this down to the battery not being inserted properly (not that I confirmed this, I just cant see any other explanation).

    All other 'issues' I have experienced have been pilot issues. E.g. flying out of range (behind a building) on FPV, causing return to home mode. Fortunately the building was about 19M tall :D . I have taken off once with < 6 satellites (in the shadow of buildings) and I was able to get a lock as soon as I got some altitude. I knew this at take off and was prepared for the drift and to set the home position once I had GPS mode. I can see how not being prepared for this could feel like a fault with the device.
     
  7. smallman28

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    You could set the Phantom in Naza mode from the outset.
    In the software that then gives you the option to set the top right switch as GPS-ATTI-FAILSAFE
    You will need to be careful to make sure the switch is in the GPS position when you start as it is very easy to flick them without noticing.
    At least that way you have a failsafe (return to home) option you can control yourself.
     
  8. TeamYankee

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    Agreed switch to NAZA mode and set the failsafe on the right hand switch - stay away from manual mode!!

    If you have FPV.. be aware of the GPS sat count. All it takes is a commercial van driver to go passed with a GPS jammer onboard and all hell could break loose!
    I suspect most of the bizarre events could be down to poor GPS signals - interference or jamming.

    Above all.. enjoy!!! After all, what could go wrong? ;-)
     
  9. CameraGuy

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    Team Yankee wrote: "All it takes is a commercial van driver to go passed with a GPS jammer onboard and all hell could break loose!
    I suspect most of the bizarre events could be down to poor GPS signals - interference or jamming."

    What do you mean by this. What kind of a commercial van would operate with a GPS jammer?

    I just ordered a Phantom 2 H3 3d with the 5.8Ghz tx/Rx. The reason is to switch out the 2.4Ghz Tx/Rx for the 5.8 to reduce the likelihood of interference.

    I just received my GoPro 4, and it will be riding the gimbal.

    Do you think this will help reduce flyways? I have had one of those before and am not keen to have a second. The others were with the original Phantom.

    Darren
     
  10. martybabe

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    Thanks guys, I already feel a bit better. I shall set the failsafe and intelligent orientation Today and take it down the beach at low tide, acres of space down there. There are definitely some risks but you wouldn't buy a new BMW and leave it in the garage in case it blew up eh. I have no problem flying it in any mode, I fly well, I'm just worried it's gonna pack up in mid air and it's all over rover. Cheers for the replies.
     
  11. Sketch6995

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    you learn to trust it by flying it......
    read up all you can but in the end, you gotta take the plunge lol

    ignore the shouters, the pouters, and the doubters.....full speed ahead and **** the torpedo's :twisted:
     
  12. Zoeconner

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    Get an FPV set up. Now I can see more what im doing it has been a lot better
     
  13. Haze

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    over 200+ Flights on Phantom 2 Now. nothing to worry about.... GET FPV or its not even worth buying the Phantom or any quadcopter.
     
  14. Jesse_M

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    I just tie a string to mine and then fly! :lol:
     
  15. witold

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    Knowledge is power. There are some stupid and easily available crashes out there. Some of the videos make me cringe, and it's not like I'm a Phantom Expert. But some people don't seem to even read the basic manual and do even a modicum of research.

    At the same time, you have to remember that no matter what you do, 4 motors+4 ESC + 1 flight controller = eventual failure. There is ZERO redundancy. Eventually it will fail and eventually it will fall like a 3 pound brick onto whatever happens to be underneath at the time.
     
  16. N017RW

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    Ahhh yes.

    Just as it has always been ;) :lol: .
     
  17. martybabe

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    Good stuff, thanks for the responses, I particularly like the range of advice :) from tie a piece of string to it, to, fly full speed ahead and **** the torpedoes. I had a good day at the beach yesterday, higher further and faster, it does fly exceptionally well. I've just got to stop worrying until something actually happens eh, grow a pair man!

    So gimbal and FPV on the shopping list but I'll hold off on the Gopro 4 for now. Thanks for the advice and the laughs.
     
  18. IrishSights

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    Just don't fly it with the gimbal attached and connected with no camera in it. It will burn the finely balanced gimbal motors out.

    Sent from Samsung S4 via Tapatalk
     
  19. lake_flyer

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    You can use 8" props on your P2.

    If you mount 8" (P1/FC40) props on your P2 you have most of the flight characteristics of the FC40 back. However, you should set the gains like on the FC40, maybe the vertical gain slightly higher. My FC40 is even heavier then my P2 and still use the 8". You loose 2 minutes of flying time but you get a very smooth flying P2.

    Most of the problems with the P2 and the Vision are coming from the 9" props. DJI wanted to get the maximum flying time for their P2 family (Vision) quads so they came up with that 9" prop that's now standard on the entire P2 family. These 9" props do give a better lift and flying time. However, they also produce a lot more spoil of air. Now as long as you're climbing or flying straight there's no problem, be it that these props are less forgiving and quite harsh when you yaw. When you descent with these props the P2 gets in the extreme prop wash they produce. My P2 got in VRS during hovering, I didn't even have to descent for that.

    We, P2 owners, are the victim of DJI's marketing positioning of the Vision+. They want to claim it is so easy to operate that anyone can fly it. And that it has the longest flying time. And with success. I know people who never before had a radio transmitter in their hands, buying a full fledged Vision2+. Even after I advised them to start small and learn how to fly in the first place. The vast number of fly aways and crashes are coming from this kind of V2+ users. (The naked P2 models seem to appeal more to experienced users who want to mod their quad to their own 'vision', like me :roll: ). So they dummed the whole P2 family down with their software 'upgrades' to a thing that won't let you do the fine programming and adjusting anymore that you still can with your FC40 or P1.1.1.

    My advise: Try the 8" props on the P2. Use initially the same settings for gains as the FC40 does. Increase the vertical gain if it's too sluggish for your taste or if it's slowly descending when hovering. You get your smooth flying experience back for sure.

    Another idea is to also downgrade to 1.8 software. That version at least allows you to adjust settings for third party gimbals and doesn't limit your descent rate. It will feel as a fully loaded FC40.

    My FC40 still flies great with 8" props and it's weight is around 1400 grams while my P2 is only 1300 grams.

    After starting my DJI journey with a FC40, the P2 I bought later was kind of a shock because it flew really jerky and unstable.
    Besides, the 3.X software limits you in almost everything. You can only descent with 2m/s and when you do, there's no way to stay out of the prop wash because the Phantom will commence a straight down landing and won't react to your sticks anymore, until you descent even slower, only then you get control back. Descending from 300m takes forever this way. This frustrates me. I always descent in a slope but with the P2, if I pull the stick down too much it hits 2m/s and it just stops in midair with a big bump (gimbal just clashes up and down at that moment) and starts to descent on that very spot. Ridiculous! And the descent is not smooth although terribly slow. It still bounces up and down like mad. And is always on the verge of going into VRS, I just feel it. It sometimes drops 3 to 6 feet in less then a fraction of a second. It never led to problems but it is a cumbersome way to come home.

    P2 users who never flown a P1 or FC40 will probably never know how extremely smooth and forgiving a Phantom can be unless they ditch the 9"'s and 3.X software.

    There are very experienced pilots here with Vision2+'s, for sure. But the total package seem appeal to many novice flyers hence the amount of pilot induced error and the dummed down software DJI came up with. It even starts up default in a 'Phantom' mode that doesn't allow IOC.

    I am going to do a downgrade to 1.8 and mount the 8"s myself. The weather is not cooperating right now but I will share my experiences here.
     
    Richard J likes this.
  20. martybabe

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    Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to write that. Back in the FC40 world the P2 props are very popular now, I thought I stood alone in preferring the 8" props style of flying. I might give that a go. My P2 came ready loaded with 3. something firmware (can't remember off the top of my head), I didn't know you could choose a previous version of firmware.

    Cheers.