HUGE discrepancy between DJI no flight zone and air traffic control

robinb · May 10, 2016

Ok, where I fly regularly well away from DJI no fly zone and more that 8kms from airport.
(its a class B airport)

I was advised last week that this maybe a problem so I contacted the air traffic control at the airport and they say the no fly zone goes out about 60kms from the airport. The no fly zone is zero feet and up and this includes drones.

This is plainly ridiculous as no aircraft is going to fly that low that far away, added to fact we have lots of hills in area they go up over 3600m.

So not sure what to do now.

SteveAikens · May 10, 2016

Knowing your location has to be part of your question.

robinb · May 10, 2016

SteveAikens said:
Knowing your location has to be part of your question.

Not sure that helps at all, but its SE Spain.

SanCap · May 10, 2016

robinb said:
Not sure that helps at all, but its SE Spain.

If you gave your exact location someone could look it up on an aeronautical chart and help you.

SteveAikens · May 10, 2016

It helps because laws and regulations differ from country to country.

I can't offer much to help in Spain but I can tell you that it's not unusual for ATC anywhere to be far more conservative in any answers they provide an individual on the phone, than they are in actual regulation. Their first consideration is aircraft safety and generally will not actually look the regulation up, and possibly just "wing it" in their answer.

robinb · May 10, 2016

I have the aeronautical chart but for those who want to look it up, airport is LEAL.

What I dont understand is why there is such a huge difference and how can ground zero be a no fly zones.

robinb · May 10, 2016

SteveAikens said:
I can't offer much to help in Spain but I can tell you that it's not unusual for ATC anywhere to be far more conservative in any answers they provide an individual on the phone, than they are in actual regulation. Their first consideration is aircraft safety and generally will not actually look the regulation up, and possibly just "wing it" in their answer.

They sent a written response.
Possibly winging it, not sure they did also email the standard regulations, i.e. 120 m high, not near airports etc.

captainmilehigh · May 10, 2016

robinb said:
Ok, where I fly regularly well away from DJI no fly zone and more that 8kms from airport.
(its a class B airport)

I was advised last week that this maybe a problem so I contacted the air traffic control at the airport and they say the no fly zone goes out about 60kms from the airport. The no fly zone is zero feet and up and this includes drones.

This is plainly ridiculous as no aircraft is going to fly that low that far away, added to fact we haves rats lots of hills in area they go up over 3600m.

So not sure what to do now.

I thought we covered this last week. But at least you contacted ATC and got their views on the airspace. Not too friendly over there are they? Did you ever try the smaller area south of you, but north of the MOA area (pink outline).

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Mark The Droner · May 10, 2016

Wasn't this discussed in this thread? Any real aircraft pilots out there and how to interpret aviation maps ?

Maybe you misunderstood the airport official. Is it possible the airport's 60 km NFZ extends out over water and is aligned with runways and doesn't apply to areas perpendicular to the runways?

robinb · May 10, 2016

captainmilehigh said:
I thought we covered this last week. But at least you contacted ATC and got their views on the airspace. Not too friendly over there are they? Did you ever try the smaller area south of you, but north of the MOA area (pink outline).

Yes, Well at time i had nothing back from air traffic control, now this morning I have.

Yes, not friendly. This is of course the local air traffic interpretation of rules. Your right there is a small area south and north but on my door step apparently is now a no go area.

robinb · May 10, 2016

Marknmd said:
Wasn't this discussed in this thread? Any real aircraft pilots out there and how to interpret aviation maps ?

Maybe you misunderstood the airport official. Is it possible the airport's 60 km NFZ extends out over water and is aligned with runways and doesn't apply to areas perpendicular to the runways?

The guy at ATC drew on the flight map (and extend area) and the 60kms is to my west only, there is a large section which is out at sea so not interested in that. ( 40kms or so)

captainmilehigh · May 10, 2016

Marknmd said:
Wasn't this discussed in this thread? Any real aircraft pilots out there and how to interpret aviation maps ?

Maybe you misunderstood the airport official. Is it possible the airport's 60 km NFZ extends out over water and is aligned with runways and doesn't apply to areas perpendicular to the runways?

In referencing the aeronautical chart, the blue rectangle is the class b airspace around the airport, and is their no fly zone.

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robinb · May 10, 2016

Here is the NFZ he sent me.

captainmilehigh · May 10, 2016

robinb said:
Yes, Well at time i had nothing back from air traffic control, now this morning I have.

Yes, not friendly. This is of course the local air traffic interpretation of rules. Your right there is a small area south and north but on my door step apparently is now a no go area.

I think I'd explore those areas mentioned for your flying, at least out of the class b airspace and any hassles. Who knows, you may find a great spot to fly elsewhere. Don't give up.

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robinb · May 10, 2016

Yes, the area round here is great for flying so will explore more of that.

Not sure if I should approach DJI support people who look after NFZ as their information I would have thought has come from the government in first place.

captainmilehigh · May 10, 2016

I think you did right by checking on airspace restrictions yourself. DJI tries, but with questionable results.....even in the states.

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teccer · May 10, 2016

Hi Robin
I live on La Manga and a Spanish buddy into commercial quad flying gave me this map and said I could fly just outside the dotted circle line ???? I live just outside of that.

Mimoid · May 10, 2016

Hello,

The rectangle-shaped pink area is Alicante CTR (control zone), which stretches from the ground up to 5000 feet. In this area, all air traffic (including drones) need to be known and allowed by Air Traffic Control. Basically you need to call Valencia Approach or Alicante Tower and ask for permission to take off and fly. You might get a permission to fly within a limited sector up to a certain altitude, but given that Alicante is a very busy aerodrome, it is not very likely.

Outside the CTR, you have a semi-circle shaped terminal area (Valencia TMA), which stretches from 1000 foot above ground to flight level 125 (roughly 125 000 feet). South of Alicante, you have another control area (San Javier) again stretching from the ground and up.

Flying without permission is strictly forbidden in all of these areas. Of course there are no airplanes flying at tree-top level altitudes (and if they are, they have bigger problems than your little Phantom), but if you are flying within such a zone, you will nonetheless be violating the international air traffic regulations.

Sorry for bringing bad news for you, but that's just how things work.

//Thomas

Mimoid · May 10, 2016

Sorry, your buddy is not correct. The outer circle is San Javier Control and it stretches from the ground up to flight level 85. The inner circle is San Javier Air Traffic Zone from the ground up to 3000 feet. Flying without explicit permission from San Javier Approach or San Javier Tower is not allowed in any of these areas. But again, you will hardly encounter a plane on church tower/tree top level. However, climbing to several hundred meters - bad idea.

//Thomas

robinb · May 10, 2016

Mimoid said:
Of course there are no airplanes flying at tree-top level altitudes (and if they are, they have bigger problems than your little Phantom), but if you are flying within such a zone, you will nonetheless be violating the international air traffic regulations.

//Thomas

Thanks, its crazy really as you are right, the hills are thousands of meters high and a plane could not go along some of the valleys unless its going down.

DJI must have sourced information from somewhere when they did their maps, how can it be so wrong ?

I like your maps, where did you get them from ?