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How inadequate?

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Discussion' started by andersonpaac, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. andersonpaac

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    I've read a lot of posts in other forums and here. There's a statement people utter and is almost looked at as a fact and never challenged. The consensus seems to be "the phantom is not as capable as other larger sized multirotors". People seem to think of phantom as a toy and incapable of doing professional work. I don't completely understand how? I do know that
    1) Inability to handle excessive windspeeds over 20mph
    2) Inability to carry more weight.

    Yes , the phantom 2 is RTF but there is a huge mod community (and most of our P2s' run mods/add-ons) and that is because of the fact that everything in there is swappable. The smaller frame size seems to make it perfect for transportation and longer flight times. I dont' intend to be ignorant as I've only had so much experience. I'd appreciate it if people shed some light as to why the P2 is only a "gateway" to a larger multirotor setup.
     
  2. Fyod

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    If you mean professional as in capability to make professional videos, than I don't agree with that.
    Look in the videos section of the forum. The Phantom is capable of very high quality flicks, but a lot of the magic is in post production. You can have a $10K DSLR octocopter and the videos won't be any good without post production.

    And I consider the GoPro professional equipment because lots of professional camera crews use them, i.e. Top Gear UK.
    Oh and there are shots I've seen people here make that wouln't be possible with an S800.
    Bigger isn't always better.
     
  3. N017RW

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    Budget and fault tolerance come to mind.

    The Phantom is ready to go out of the box, affordable, and a 'gateway' to other platforms.
    However it is not fault tolerant in the ESC/motor/prop department.

    Larger systems can recover from such faults and carry large payloads.
     
  4. HarryT

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    All very true, but on the other hand you really don't want to start flying an S1000 without a hell of a lot of experience with something cheaper, and the Phantom is that ideal "something cheaper" to train on. The S1000 is no more resilient than a Phantom is you fly it into a brick wall, or ditch it in the sea, due to pilot error.
     
  5. andersonpaac

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    Thank you and this is by far the most accurate answer. Yes , the redundancy (4x extra motors) definitely give it higher lift but significantly affecting battery life.
    And yes , the Naza V2 isn't as powerful/fault tolerant as the A2 per say
     
  6. andersonpaac

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    Well said , stabilization algorithms and post production almost makes all the difference! The hero 3+ armed with 4k is a huge Plus for us P2 owners
     
  7. OI Photography

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    There's tons of options available for multirotors in between the Phantom and huge rigs like the S1000. The Phantom can indeed be a viable professional platform, but it's not ideal for every situation any more than a larger aircraft is.

    Yes you can put a gopro on a Phantom and yes you can get adequate results with that, but I don't think post-pro should be factored in because we can assume anybody trying to choose a platform would use the same types of editing regardless of what they choose.

    There are plenty of gigs that will require better lenses or other things the gopro doesn't have or can't do as well as other cameras. Even just a micro four-thirds or APS-C body with the right glass can deliver, and while the Phantom does have the ability to lift some of those on their own they're not very useful without a gimbal.

    In addition to just being able to lift more total weight, other platforms can give stability and redundancy the Phantom (or any quadrotor for that matter) can't match. Some of that is simply due to size, but having 6 or more rotors is a huge advantage for a camera platform.

    Phantom pros (from a professional standpoint):
    -Portability
    -Cost
    -Simplicity

    Cons:
    -Lack of redundancy
    -Lack of stability
    -Lack of lifting capacity
    -Lack of flexibility

    I can say from experience that once you have a quad fall out of the sky from loss of power on one axis, and then see your hex land softly in the same conditions, you'll never want to trust your expensive gear to just 4 motors again.

    Obviously 6 or 8 motors might be less efficient than 4 in many situations, but only in the same way a truck engine is less efficient than a car motor when driving around town. Try loading that car with the same payload the truck can carry and see then if the car engine gets you any more mileage than the truck...or can even drive away. And most larger multirotors can be equipped to hit or exceed the 15-17 minute limit most fully-loaded Phantoms are saddled with.
     
  8. HarryT

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    Yes, the fact that you can lose a motor on a hex is clearly a huge benefit in terms of reliability, especially if you're flying expensive pro camera equipment. Presumably you get the additional redundancy even with a cheaper hex like the F550?
     
  9. Fyod

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    I don't know what the fail rate or possible motor-hours are on the stock motors, but if you're flying professionally (making money), buying a set of E300's once a year or even every half year really isn't much of an expense. A motor failure is probably what I fear least.
    That said, yes, the Phantom probably isn't enough of a monster for Hollywood, but a very good tool for any pro video/photographer wanting to add a new feature to their services.
     
  10. N017RW

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    BLDC motors are nearly maintenance free, extremely reliable, and have lifetimes in the 20,000+ hr range.
    The main failure point is bearings and it is easy to detect issues with those such as feel, noise, and heat before they casue a problem.

    ESCs on the other hand is another matter.
     
  11. andersonpaac

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    I will be upgrading to the new 9450 props on the E300 motors. It'll be a good way to protect my investment
     
  12. HarryT

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    In what way? Changing the props won't make the motors any more reliable, or stop you from flying into a brick wall. How do you reckon it'll be protecting your investment? Less chance of VRS?
     
  13. andersonpaac

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    Less chance of a vrs. The e300 motors are more efficient apparently and are better quality and fault tolerant than stock motors.
     
  14. noiseboy72

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    The problem is, you cannot fly commercially in the UK without being a qualified UAV pilot and have a flight manual detailing your flight planning, emergency drills etc. In the States, at present, the situation is almost farcical.

    Your flight manual needs to detail what happens in case of motor failure or control loss. With a quad, the answer to losing a motor is an almost certain crash. For this reason, it might not be reasonable to fly over people or vehicles not in your control. With a Hex or larger, an argument could be made that there is a sufficiently large safety margin to fly away from crowds etc. before a controlled or uncontrolled landing. I can foresee a ban on professionals flying quads in the areas we enthusiasts are also restricted from - towns, crowds etc. with only Hex and larger approved for this type of work.

    Another issue is client expectation. If I booked an aerial camera system for £950 for the day (Not an unrealistic amount) and a bloke turned up with a Phantom and a GoPro, I might feel this what not good value for money. If they arrived and unpacked a 12 motor monster, with an Eos 5D strapped underneath, the end result might not be that different, but my expectations would be met.
     
  15. HarryT

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    It's not the size of your tool that matters - it's how you use it ;)
     
  16. Fyod

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    Well, I would love it if the Phantom could almost be payed off in one day.
    Again, I would not charge the majority of the money for the flight itself, rather the post production that makes the video "come to life".
    If I spent 1 day filming and a week or more in post prod., that price wouldn't be far off.
    Or I can fly for a third of that and give you the raw files 5 minutes after I land.
     
  17. andersonpaac

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    Absolutely understand your point. It does "look" great. But as stated previously the raw footage is definitely not what you want your client to see.
     
  18. OI Photography

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    Indeed, and I've used it on many jobs where it was plenty good enough for what I needed to produce.

    You're right that buying a new motor is not a huge expense, but buying a whole new aircraft and photography gear when one fails is...and motor failures are only one of the many (many) potential causes of loss of power on an axis.
     
  19. mediaguru

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    I do a lot of photography and the GoPro does not cut it. Can't shoot raw. Lens distortion. Bad JPG artifacting etc.

    So for me a platform capable of carrying a superior camera with more glass which can shoot raw would be what I'd call "professional."

    For video, sometimes a GoPro does a great job.
     
  20. Fyod

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    OI: I meant replacing them beforehand as a measure to prevent failure when/if you feel the current ones may be showing stress.