Horrible flyaway today..wonder if anyone can shed light

WebMaximus said:
Ok, thanks for confirming this and then I don't find any reason to be scared using Naza mode but instead it might be what helps you out should you end up in a bad situation.


Correct. Many others fear or otherwise assume NAZA mode is risky.

Yes, you must pay attention to switches but that is not just cause for the 'stigma' attached.
 
OK, I haven't had any issues with my Phantom 2V+. I've had it for about a week and flown about 15 times, all in Phantom mode. I think I'll be switching to NAZA mode after reading this. So Phantom mode and NAZA mode are the same if both switches are up? If so, my Phantom will act just like it always has when both switches are up in NAZA mode? The advantage to being in NAZA mode is that if something screwy happens I can command control by moving the RH switch to the middle position. I know this info is in other places but while I'm here reading this thread I figured I would ask.
 
OK lets go back to the OP for a little more detail.

1. Compass calibration was done (I think, please confirm)
2. 10 Sats had been locked therefore home point should have been recorded. Was the home point showing correctly in the app?
3. While in the air the LEDs indicated compass and/or GPS error thus unit went into Atti mode automatically. I guess in the panic no one looked at the app for qty. of Sats at this point?
4. It was difficult to impossible to control the unit at this point. How much time went by before it took off?
5. The App showed RTH when it took off, was it proceeded with a signal loss message? Approx. how far away vertically and horizontally was the unit at this point.
6. Anything else noticed on the app before video signal loss?
 
GRWeldon said:
OK, I haven't had any issues with my Phantom 2V+. I've had it for about a week and flown about 15 times, all in Phantom mode. I think I'll be switching to NAZA mode after reading this. So Phantom mode and NAZA mode are the same if both switches are up? If so, my Phantom will act just like it always has when both switches are up in NAZA mode? The advantage to being in NAZA mode is that if something screwy happens I can command control by moving the RH switch to the middle position. I know this info is in other places but while I'm here reading this thread I figured I would ask.

Basically what you have deduced is true. Another BIG advantage in NAZA mode is IOC(Intelligent orientation control), which is enabled by using the S2 switch(on the left). IOC allows you to fly the bird no matter what way it is facing. Imagine a scenario where your V2+ is so far from you that you cannot tell which way it is facing, you lose satellites so you put in ATTI mode. You have no idea which way your right stick is going to send the bird because you cannot tell which way is forward(not sure if the radar will help here). In IOC, you don't need to know which way is forward, if your S2 is all the way down, in Home Lock position, and you are standing near the home point, just pull the right lever back toward you and the V2+ comes to you, and also controls left and right and forward, no matter which way the nose is facing. There is more to it than I have described here, including Control Lock which is the S2 in the middle position. You should read the NAZA-V2 manual which can be downloaded from the dji website on the Phantom 2 Vision page.

I probably will never fly in Phantom mode again unless I am flying a very, very short distance.
 
Jstic said:
GRWeldon said:
....you lose satellites so you put in ATTI mode. You have no idea which way your right stick is going to send the bird because you cannot tell which way is forward(not sure if the radar will help here). In IOC, you don't need to know which way is forward, if your S2 is all the way down, in Home Lock position, and you are standing near the home point, just pull the right lever back toward you and the V2+ comes to you,

I believe you need satellites for home lock to work and course lock is a different beast altogether.
 
The truth is ........

Phantom Mode = risky and at the mercy of GPS, where the pilot has less control.

NAZA mode = more freedom and control. With NAZA you can still fly in Phantom (both switches up), but you have the flexibility and other options at your finger tips, if necessary or desired.

After my initial flight in Phantom mode and reading the following I switched to NAZA! I would never fly again in strictly Phantom mode.
http://www.pattayadays.com/2014/03/naza ... -2-vision/
 
wattage said:
Jstic said:
GRWeldon said:
....you lose satellites so you put in ATTI mode. You have no idea which way your right stick is going to send the bird because you cannot tell which way is forward(not sure if the radar will help here). In IOC, you don't need to know which way is forward, if your S2 is all the way down, in Home Lock position, and you are standing near the home point, just pull the right lever back toward you and the V2+ comes to you,

I believe you need satellites for home lock to work and course lock is a different beast altogether.

HL needs GPS, Compass and home position to work, CL should work with just compass heading
 
Dirty Bird said:
It should have said, "Coming Home..." If it said, "Going Home..." then you're in trouble! :shock:

Sorry about your friend's loss. I'm guessing either the GPS had not secured a Home Lock on the second flight, the compass needed calibration, or she lost GPS signal in the air, in which case she would have reverted to ATTI mode and it would have been up to you to bring her back home. Not sure why it would have suddenly turned and left, unless she got caught up in the breeze? It was the maiden flight. Did you go through all the steps to calibrate the controller, the Vision, etc..???


Going home only comes when you are in Atti mode. you're in GPS mode Would it have been comming home
 
Beaugolfs said:
The truth is ........

Phantom Mode = risky and at the mercy of GPS, where the pilot has less control.

NAZA mode = more freedom and control. With NAZA you can still fly in Phantom (both switches up), but you have the flexibility and other options at your finger tips, if necessary or desired.

After my initial flight in Phantom mode and reading the following I switched to NAZA! I would never fly again in strictly Phantom mode.
http://www.pattayadays.com/2014/03/naza ... -2-vision/

But why is Phantom mode risky? If there is a failure of the GPS module or Satellite lock is lost then it is supposed to go to Atti automatically. False position readings? Well they can happen due to signal bounce but they shouldn't be super far off, they should stabilize while moving and if there are sudden large location differences then the controller should detect plausibility error.
Are pilot errors the cause of some or even most of the loss issues, possibly but I will also point the finger somewhat at DJI for mass marketing a product that is not yet ready for the mass market. If the GPS says it was here and 5 seconds later it says it is now 2 miles or km off from the last position then it should see that as not plausible and go into a safe mode (not RTH). Same for the Home position if the distance within the given flight time is not plausible then it should go into a -woah buddy that ain't right- mode. Also wrong compass calibrations should never lead to having the unit go off into the blue. They can integrate no flight zones, alt and distance limits so they should be able to add more refined plausibility checks to the controller logic gosh dang darn it ;)
 
wattage said:
Jstic said:
GRWeldon said:
....you lose satellites so you put in ATTI mode. You have no idea which way your right stick is going to send the bird because you cannot tell which way is forward(not sure if the radar will help here). In IOC, you don't need to know which way is forward, if your S2 is all the way down, in Home Lock position, and you are standing near the home point, just pull the right lever back toward you and the V2+ comes to you,

I believe you need satellites for home lock to work and course lock is a different beast altogether.

Thanks for clarifying that. I believe if you are in home lock, and GPS is lost, it automatically goes into course lock.
 
Panamon Creel said:
Beaugolfs said:
The truth is ........

Phantom Mode = risky and at the mercy of GPS, where the pilot has less control.

NAZA mode = more freedom and control. With NAZA you can still fly in Phantom (both switches up), but you have the flexibility and other options at your finger tips, if necessary or desired.

After my initial flight in Phantom mode and reading the following I switched to NAZA! I would never fly again in strictly Phantom mode.
http://www.pattayadays.com/2014/03/naza ... -2-vision/

But why is Phantom mode risky? If there is a failure of the GPS module or Satellite lock is lost then it is supposed to go to Atti automatically. False position readings? Well they can happen due to signal bounce but they shouldn't be super far off, they should stabilize while moving and if there are sudden large location differences then the controller should detect plausibility error.
Are pilot errors the cause of some or even most of the loss issues, possibly but I will also point the finger somewhat at DJI for mass marketing a product that is not yet ready for the mass market. If the GPS says it was here and 5 seconds later it says it is now 2 miles or km off from the last position then it should see that as not plausible and go into a safe mode (not RTH). Same for the Home position if the distance within the given flight time is not plausible then it should go into a -woah buddy that ain't right- mode. Also wrong compass calibrations should never lead to having the unit go off into the blue. They can integrate no flight zones, alt and distance limits so they should be able to add more refined plausibility checks to the controller logic gosh dang darn it ;)

"... I will also point the finger somewhat at DJI for mass marketing a product that is not yet ready for the mass market."

The Phantoms are ready for the 'mass market', some pilots or operators however are not ready for the Phantom.
 
Panamon Creel said:
Beaugolfs said:
The truth is ........

Phantom Mode = risky and at the mercy of GPS, where the pilot has less control.

NAZA mode = more freedom and control. With NAZA you can still fly in Phantom (both switches up), but you have the flexibility and other options at your finger tips, if necessary or desired.

After my initial flight in Phantom mode and reading the following I switched to NAZA! I would never fly again in strictly Phantom mode.
http://www.pattayadays.com/2014/03/naza ... -2-vision/

But why is Phantom mode risky? If there is a failure of the GPS module or Satellite lock is lost then it is supposed to go to Atti automatically. False position readings? Well they can happen due to signal bounce but they shouldn't be super far off, they should stabilize while moving and if there are sudden large location differences then the controller should detect plausibility error.
Are pilot errors the cause of some or even most of the loss issues, possibly but I will also point the finger somewhat at DJI for mass marketing a product that is not yet ready for the mass market. If the GPS says it was here and 5 seconds later it says it is now 2 miles or km off from the last position then it should see that as not plausible and go into a safe mode (not RTH). Same for the Home position if the distance within the given flight time is not plausible then it should go into a -woah buddy that ain't right- mode. Also wrong compass calibrations should never lead to having the unit go off into the blue. They can integrate no flight zones, alt and distance limits so they should be able to add more refined plausibility checks to the controller logic gosh dang darn it ;)

I think Phantom mode is risky, because you are totally at the mercy of GPS (the pilots ability to control the bird is greatly diminished). If the bird starts to act on its own (which can be tied to GPS failure), in NAZA mode you can switch to ATTI and take GPS out of the equation and safely fly home. Understanding how to fly in ATTI mode is very important. Initial flights in NAZA mode should be very close by and in light winds, so you can see how the bird reacts in ATTI mode. I mean how hard is it to understand NAZA mode? Two switches up is the same as Phantom mode, but with the flexibility and CONTROL to do more. Anyone spending $1,300 plus on one of these things should be smart enough to read about NAZA and fly in it from day one!
 
Panamon Creel said:
Beaugolfs said:
The truth is ........

Phantom Mode = risky and at the mercy of GPS, where the pilot has less control.

NAZA mode = more freedom and control. With NAZA you can still fly in Phantom (both switches up), but you have the flexibility and other options at your finger tips, if necessary or desired.

After my initial flight in Phantom mode and reading the following I switched to NAZA! I would never fly again in strictly Phantom mode.
http://www.pattayadays.com/2014/03/naza ... -2-vision/

But why is Phantom mode risky? If there is a failure of the GPS module or Satellite lock is lost then it is supposed to go to Atti automatically. False position readings? Well they can happen due to signal bounce but they shouldn't be super far off, they should stabilize while moving and if there are sudden large location differences then the controller should detect plausibility error.
Are pilot errors the cause of some or even most of the loss issues, possibly but I will also point the finger somewhat at DJI for mass marketing a product that is not yet ready for the mass market. If the GPS says it was here and 5 seconds later it says it is now 2 miles or km off from the last position then it should see that as not plausible and go into a safe mode (not RTH). Same for the Home position if the distance within the given flight time is not plausible then it should go into a -woah buddy that ain't right- mode. Also wrong compass calibrations should never lead to having the unit go off into the blue. They can integrate no flight zones, alt and distance limits so they should be able to add more refined plausibility checks to the controller logic gosh dang darn it ;)

What you say makes sense, you should send this suggestion to DJI but I guess (hope) they are already working on stuff like this for future firmware updates.
 
Beaugolfs said:
Panamon Creel said:
Beaugolfs said:
The truth is ........

Phantom Mode = risky and at the mercy of GPS, where the pilot has less control.

NAZA mode = more freedom and control. With NAZA you can still fly in Phantom (both switches up), but you have the flexibility and other options at your finger tips, if necessary or desired.

After my initial flight in Phantom mode and reading the following I switched to NAZA! I would never fly again in strictly Phantom mode.
http://www.pattayadays.com/2014/03/naza ... -2-vision/

But why is Phantom mode risky? If there is a failure of the GPS module or Satellite lock is lost then it is supposed to go to Atti automatically. False position readings? Well they can happen due to signal bounce but they shouldn't be super far off, they should stabilize while moving and if there are sudden large location differences then the controller should detect plausibility error.
Are pilot errors the cause of some or even most of the loss issues, possibly but I will also point the finger somewhat at DJI for mass marketing a product that is not yet ready for the mass market. If the GPS says it was here and 5 seconds later it says it is now 2 miles or km off from the last position then it should see that as not plausible and go into a safe mode (not RTH). Same for the Home position if the distance within the given flight time is not plausible then it should go into a -woah buddy that ain't right- mode. Also wrong compass calibrations should never lead to having the unit go off into the blue. They can integrate no flight zones, alt and distance limits so they should be able to add more refined plausibility checks to the controller logic gosh dang darn it ;)

I think Phantom mode is risky, because you are totally at the mercy of GPS (the pilots ability to control the bird is greatly diminished). If the bird starts to act on its own (which can be tied to GPS failure), in NAZA mode you can switch to ATTI and take GPS out of the equation and safely fly home. Understanding how to fly in ATTI mode is very important. Initial flights in NAZA mode should be very close by and in light winds, so you can see how the bird reacts in ATTI mode. I mean how hard is it to understand NAZA mode? Two switches up is the same as Phantom mode, but with the flexibility and CONTROL to do more. Anyone spending $1,300 plus on one of these things should be smart enough to read about NAZA and fly in it from day one!

I still haven't tried flying in ATTI mode since switching to Naza mode but will try this in a very careful manner when the conditions are right.

Did I understand it correctly that the main difference between flying in GPS mode vs ATTI mode is the Phantom will not try to correct its lateral location by itself but it will be affected by the wind and drift with the wind unless you correct this manually?
 
Yes, simply stated.

Also it will coast a great deal in Atti. mode once you let off the right stick.
 
Beaugolfs said:
I think Phantom mode is risky, because you are totally at the mercy of GPS (the pilots ability to control the bird is greatly diminished). If the bird starts to act on its own (which can be tied to GPS failure), in NAZA mode you can switch to ATTI and take GPS out of the equation and safely fly home. Understanding how to fly in ATTI mode is very important. Initial flights in NAZA mode should be very close by and in light winds, so you can see how the bird reacts in ATTI mode. I mean how hard is it to understand NAZA mode? Two switches up is the same as Phantom mode, but with the flexibility and CONTROL to do more. Anyone spending $1,300 plus on one of these things should be smart enough to read about NAZA and fly in it from day one!

The GPS or the magnetic compass should never greatly diminish basic control, it is there to enhance. GPS&Compass should have no influence on stick control in Naza S1&S2 up or Phantom mode. You move your right stick forward and the unit will tilt forward and move in that direction, move it side to side and it will move side to side. Basic movements are governed by the orientation of the Naza controller in the body and the IMU within. GPS and/or compass only come into play if you let go off the sticks and hover, fly to waypoints (including home point) and while using IOC in Naza mode.
 
N017RW said:
The Phantoms are ready for the 'mass market', some pilots or operators however are not ready for the Phantom.

True there are certainly some out there that should not fly a phantom just like there are folks out there that should not drive a car but it is also be wrong to put every control loss incident into the same pilot error category.
 
Absolutely...

There's always possible component, equipment, and workmanship defects/failures.
 
WebMaximus said:
I still haven't tried flying in ATTI mode since switching to Naza mode but will try this in a very careful manner when the conditions are right.

Did I understand it correctly that the main difference between flying in GPS mode vs ATTI mode is the Phantom will not try to correct its lateral location by itself but it will be affected by the wind and drift with the wind unless you correct this manually?

yes it will drift with the wind since it only locks vertical position and not horizontal position. Furthermore if you move in one direction and let go of the stick the unit will level out but will keep on drifting in that direction due to inertia, you have to apply opposite stick to stop the movement.
 
Don't forget heading.

That is also maintained in Atti. node.
 

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