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H3-3D "jello" issues

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Discussion' started by landonkk, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. landonkk

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    I am having some pretty bad jello issues with my new P2 / H3-3D combo. There are quite a few people on another forum who have similar issues and we are trying to solve it. I was wondering who here has this new setup and if you are getting smooth video or not and if so, how your P2 is setup.

    For those not aware, when I say jello, it is the wavy-ness of the picture during certain frequencies of vibration caused by the motors. It looks as though you are viewing the video through a clear sheet of jello in front of the lens. The balls attached to the gimbal are in place to reduce these vibrations.

    The new setup comes with different dampening balls and most people are using the ones pre-installed on the gimbal - the white 30's. There is varied success with these as some people report no problems and others are reporting severe jello.

    Others have found success with the softer black 50 balls, while others that attempt these get violent shaking of the craft with these attached. Some have added sorbothane to their gimbal when using the 50's with improved results.

    Also being tested with all of these variations are changes in the gains and different camera settings (1080p/2.7k & 30fps/60fps)

    If you have found success (or if you have jello), with the new H3-3D, please report here with your setup - (ie. what balls, what gains, camera settings and flying conditions). I need some ideas as everything I have attempted has produced jello which I never had on my 2D.
     
  2. IrishSights

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    Re: H3-3D "jello" issues

    Vibration is not the main cause of jello although it can contribute to it. The main cause is called Rolling Shutter. Rather than me typing masses here check out this link that explains it in full:
    http://www.flitetest.com/articles/vibra ... -and-cures

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 8
     
  3. happydogs

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    Re: H3-3D


    thank you!!
     
  4. IrishSights

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    Also a neutral density filter can be used to reduce jello by causing the shutter to be slower as the camera responds to the lower light level. You might have noticed that jello is more obvious when its bright and sunny and less on a cloudy day for the same reason. I'm not an expert, just read up on it ages ago and implemented the suggestions.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 8
     
  5. happydogs

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    now i know what the "rolling shutter" fx repair in Adobe Premiere Pro is for!!! :) (I think!)
     
  6. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
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    Is your P2 a "plus" i.e. came with the correct mounting for the H3-3D?

    I was just messaging with xrover over a similar issue. Rolling shutter will certainly contribute to the issue and an ND is generally a very good way to reduce it's effects in bright daylight even when your gimbal and P2 are in perfect harmony.

    But, you want to make sure your gimbal and P2 are in harmony and don't have feedback loop taking place between them. Simply put, when one moves to balance itself, the other gets pulled and then it then moves to rebalance and so on. How that happens in one case vs. another has much to do with the speed of the energy transfer, resonant frequencies, etc. which is all a mystery to me.

    As I don't have a 3D, I am at a bit of a loss as to how to fix it but it will all be in the mounting and dampening provided by the rubber balls.

    P.S. rolling shutter is not something you want to try to compensate for in post.
     
  7. landonkk

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    Thanks for the tip and link, Irish! Do you have an guesses on why I wasn't having any jello issues using the same GoPro on my H3-2D gimbal but after moving it to this setup have severe jello? Granted I have not yet read the entire article, just scanned it, but it seems as though the cause here might still be vibrations that were not present on the previous gimble/P2.
     
  8. landonkk

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    Yes, it is the newer P2 with hole cut out for the motor of the yaw axis. The group over at RCGroups is somewhat at a loss because there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to what is fixing it for different people. I understand that these things are fussy and with it being a relatively new technology there will be some tinkering involved, but it is frustrating because my H3-2D had zero jello issues and with this being considered an "upgrade" from that system, it is difficult to stomach the testing and adjusting I am having to go through.

    Oh, and by the way ianwood - Yes, this new P2 has the same j-hook issues as my other two Phantoms so if you are still tracking numbers add another one for Santa Barbara, CA
     
  9. ashleyg

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    Major jello issues here, after two weeks still, no jello on previous H32D. Occurs mostly throttling forward.
     
  10. EMCSQUAR

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    I don't have mine yet - tomorrow, but I would suggest using stiffer dampening balls - usually Zens black 45's worked well in my previous Zens 2Ds. I had similar issues when trying lighter dampners in the past.
     
  11. Gizmo3000

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    I think that's the problem with having heavier gimbals, the additional weight does seem to require stiffer balls
     
  12. landonkk

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    Yeah that has definitely been the place of most concentration when trying to figure it out. The H3 combo comes with 4 sets of dampeners: The installed white ones are similar in stiffness to the black ones pre-installed on the H2. It seems as though they are middle of the road and that most people are finding a good fit with them. Also included are very soft 50's which when installed on some (if not most) crafts, cause the entire Phantom to shake and become unstable. There are also grey A40's which are the stiffest of them all and for me cause the worst jello (as your hypothesis would counter). The softest of them all are black 40's but being softer than the 50's that cause the shaking I am afraid to try them.

    I have also tried the balls that came with the H2 on this gimbal and have had some luck with the default black ones, which would make sense since they are closest to the white balls.

    You can see how testing with these dampener options, as well as gains, props and camera settings can create a headache....

    Please report back when you get yours setup to let us know how it goes for you.
     
  13. EMCSQUAR

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    Should have mine tomorrow - and agree 100+% on gains, props,antenna, etc testing. I've spent a months worth of time gain testing my P1.5 hybrid and it's been an adventure. Between balancing, center of gravity settings then adding things like ground station and now H3-3D - it's almost been perpetual.
     
  14. FASTFJR

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    I have very little if any "Jello" and I've pushed it pretty hard. White balls with zip tie. I just got a small sheet of 50 Duro sorbothane and just from sh*ts and giggles I'm going to try that. One thing I did do which I don't think anyone has done is to add small rubber washer (4) between the metal mount and the body. This also helps keep the gimbal motor off the battery, not that I ever had an issue with it touching
     
  15. landonkk

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    Thanks for the tip, Fastfjr. What are your gains set at? I might try the rubber washer idea... seems like it couldn't hurt. I also just ordered a ND Filter fromPolar Pro on amazon for $30. Supposed to help slow down the shutter speed of the GoPro helping the rolling shutter issue.

    I'll report back with my findings.
     
  16. Jaybee

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    Out of interest (not sure if you've looked under the hood yet) but has your new P2+ got an 'interference board installed?
     
  17. landonkk

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    I installed it. No noticeable difference that I could see.
     
  18. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
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    Sounds like DJI will need to tweak their gimbal firmware. Has anyone taken it up with DJI support yet? I am sure they're clueless but might be worth a shot.
     
  19. landonkk

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    Yeah, full disclosure - I have not contacted support. I may be wrong but it just seems as though there are too many moving parts for them to be of much help and since the Go Pro is not part of their equipment it's very likely they would simply place the blame there. As you said in the other thread, abandon all hope.

    I understand that if enough people contact them to report issues they will look at it, but at this point it is just easier to try and solve it myself.
     
  20. Joel_t

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    I received my Phantom 2 and H3-3D on the weekend and all is working great. Other than the fact the installation video on their website shows putting 2 plastic safety pin to hold the gimbal together but don't mention that doing this will result in the gimbal hitting the pin as it pans around.

    But I'm getting great stable video with stock white rubbers and no firmware update. Straight out of the box and into the air. Only video issue I've had so far is when the sun goes through the props and hits the lens. Creates a strobing look. Going to try make a little lens hood to stop this.