Got my Section 333 Exemptions, But now I need a Sport Pilot Cert..... Ugggggg

[Monte55]

Ya gonna tell on Steve are ya?

 

[SteveMann]

Ya gonna tell on Steve are ya?

What would he tell other than I keep asking: What rule?

 

[CoolClownFish]

Ya gonna tell on Steve are ya?

You gotta problem with it? I already did, so what are you going to do about it?

 

[CoolClownFish]

What would he tell other than I keep asking: What rule?

OK you want rules? What level of Pilot license do you hold? And what name is the Section 333 in? You give me those and I will take the time.

 

[Astronut71]

CCF, while I 100% support the fact that you are going to go ahead and get your Sport Pilot's License because it is the right thing to do (rules or no rules, that is what the FAA is asking for, and with good reason for now), I think you should take a deep breath and just take care of your own business, with the knowledge that you are doing the right thing. Running to the FAA to call someone out and posting a name and address on a public board really doesn't do you any favors IMHO.

 

[SanCap]

You gotta problem with it? I already did, so what are you going to do about it?

Really! You are corresponding with the FAA about other members of this forum?? WTF! You started this thread saying you received a 333 Exemption and didn't realize that you had to have at minimum a Sport Pilots License to use your exemption or use someone that had one. I think the FAA should rescind your exemption do to lack of knowledge.

 

[SteveMann]

Secondary question for the group. Is there any compelling reason to obtain a 333 if you have no intention of flying commercially and/or adhering to the 333 requirements? I don't really have any desire to go out and try to earn cash from flying my Phantom but I can see how just owning a drone and knowing the right people could open up opportunities for doing a little commercial photography with it. Since I already have a commercial pilot certificate in my pocket collecting dust, I figured I'd go ahead and petition for a 333 just in case.

The Section 333 exemption (actually there's fifteen rules you are asking for an exemption from) is only needed for non-hobby flight. The FAA is prevented from making rules covering hobby flight by Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012.

This is the conundrum that the FAA finds itself in - Hobby aircraft and operators are unlicensed, so what rule would the unlicensed operator be violating for flying the drone for compensation? If you hold a private pilot certificate, then flying a drone for commercial use would violate 14 CFR §61.113 'Private pilot privileges and limitations'. Your commercial pilot certificate permits you to fly your drone for commercial purposes, but then it has to be certified and registered. Here's the list of rules that you need an exemption from:

§ 45.27 Location of marks; nonfixed-wing aircraft;
§ 21 Certification Procedures For Products And Parts;
§ 61.113(a)&(b) Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command;
§ 91.7(a) Civil aircraft airworthiness;
§ 91.9(b)(2) Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements;
§ 91.103(b) Preflight action;
§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests;
§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General;
§ 91.121 Altimeter settings;
§ 91.151(a) Fuel requirements for flight in VFR conditions;
§ 91.203(a)&(b) Civil aircraft: Certifications required;
§ 91.405(a) Maintenance required;
§ 91.407(a)(1) Operation after maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, or alteration;
§ 91.409(a)(2) Inspections;
§ 91.417(a)&(b) Maintenance records

Some argue that the FAA Administrator does have the statutory authority to allow exemption from a pilot certificate, none have been issued. 49 USC §44701(f): "Exemptions.— The Administrator may grant an exemption from a requirement of a regulation prescribed under subsection (a) or (b) of this section or any of sections 44702–44716 of this title if the Administrator finds the exemption is in the public interest."

 

[CoolClownFish]

CCF, while I 100% support the fact that you are going to go ahead and get your Sport Pilot's License because it is the right thing to do (rules or no rules, that is what the FAA is asking for, and with good reason for now), I think you should take a deep breath and just take care of your own business, with the knowledge that you are doing the right thing. Running to the FAA to call someone out and posting a name and address on a public board really doesn't do you any favors IMHO.

I admit I got a little worked up and I in no way like to offend people. I know that I am doing all I can to make my business a LEGAL one and that I am covered by current and future rules, regs and licensing requirements. But when I find a business person doing things half assed that I have spent tons of money and time to do right and they are making a bad name for the rest of us, it is my responsibility and everyone's on here that want things to turn out anywhere near in our favor to do the right thing. IF he is operating a business as he says he is without working with the FAA and doing it legally that hurts everyone including hobbyists. So what I have sent them is the admission of him doing the business against their regs and that is now their problem. but please don't tell me that I should do nothing when I have spent thousands on having my exemptions written, sent and approved and thousands setting up a LEGAL business. His ignorance of the current laws, regs and rules hurt other businesses like mine and I will not just let it go.

 

[CoolClownFish]

The Section 333 exemption (actually there's fifteen rules you are asking for an exemption from) is only needed for non-hobby flight. The FAA is prevented from making rules covering hobby flight by Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012.

This is the conundrum that the FAA finds itself in - Hobby aircraft and operators are unlicensed, so what rule would the unlicensed operator be violating for flying the drone for compensation? If you hold a private pilot certificate, then flying a drone for commercial use would violate 14 CFR §61.113 'Private pilot privileges and limitations'. Your commercial pilot certificate permits you to fly your drone for commercial purposes, but then it has to be certified and registered. Here's the list of rules that you need an exemption from:

§ 45.27 Location of marks; nonfixed-wing aircraft;
§ 21 Certification Procedures For Products And Parts;
§ 61.113(a)&(b) Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command;
§ 91.7(a) Civil aircraft airworthiness;
§ 91.9(b)(2) Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements;
§ 91.103(b) Preflight action;
§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests;
§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General;
§ 91.121 Altimeter settings;
§ 91.151(a) Fuel requirements for flight in VFR conditions;
§ 91.203(a)&(b) Civil aircraft: Certifications required;
§ 91.405(a) Maintenance required;
§ 91.407(a)(1) Operation after maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, or alteration;
§ 91.409(a)(2) Inspections;
§ 91.417(a)&(b) Maintenance records

Some argue that the FAA Administrator does have the statutory authority to allow exemption from a pilot certificate, none have been issued. 49 USC §44701(f): "Exemptions.— The Administrator may grant an exemption from a requirement of a regulation prescribed under subsection (a) or (b) of this section or any of sections 44702–44716 of this title if the Administrator finds the exemption is in the public interest."

And non hobby flight is conducting any type of business using a drone. so thank you for proving my point. Are you getting it yet?

 

[Deleted member 29014]

Seriously? You are going to bother the FAA with forum chat? You don't even know if he's just jerking your chain. I will not hesitate to file a report against anyone I know is violating their 333 but I'm not wasting anyone's time on an assumption based on internet chat. Get a grip.

 

[CoolClownFish]

Really! You are corresponding with the FAA about other members of this forum?? WTF! You started this thread saying you received a 333 Exemption and didn't realize that you had to have at minimum a Sport Pilots License to use your exemption or use someone that had one. I think the FAA should rescind your exemption do to lack of knowledge.

And I should be reported for doing things legally? Your special aren't you?

 

[Deleted member 29014]

And I should be reported for doing things legally? Your special aren't you?

WTF? Did I say anything about reporting you?

 

[CoolClownFish]

Seriously? You are going to bother the FAA with forum chat? You don't even know if he's just jerking your chain. I will not hesitate to file a report against anyone I know is violating their 333 but I'm not wasting anyone's time on an assumption based on internet chat. Get a grip.

That's your choice Luis, Now they can check into it themselves and he will have to do what everyone else has to in order to follow the rules. Did I get pissed? a little but how much time and money have you spent on starting your business?

 

[Deleted member 29014]

That's your choice Luis, Now they can check into it themselves and he will have to do what everyone else has to in order to follow the rules. Did I get pissed? a little but how much time and money have you spent on starting your business?

EOD...

 

[CoolClownFish]

WTF? Did I say anything about reporting you?

That was in response to jimandsue60's post not yours Luis

 

[SanCap]

That was in response to jimandsue60's post not yours Luis

I said nothing about reporting you also!!

 

[CoolClownFish]

OK "I think the FAA should rescind your exemption do to lack of knowledge" is what you said. lol either way. lol

 

[SteveMann]

I admit I got a little worked up and I in no way like to offend people. I know that I am doing all I can to make my business a LEGAL one and that I am covered by current and future rules, regs and licensing requirements. But when I find a business person doing things half assed that I have spent tons of money and time to do right and they are making a bad name for the rest of us, it is my responsibility and everyone's on here that want things to turn out anywhere near in our favor to do the right thing. IF he is operating a business as he says he is without working with the FAA and doing it legally that hurts everyone including hobbyists. So what I have sent them is the admission of him doing the business against their regs and that is now their problem. but please don't tell me that I should do nothing when I have spent thousands on having my exemptions written, sent and approved and thousands setting up a LEGAL business. His ignorance of the current laws, regs and rules hurt other businesses like mine and I will not just let it go.

You make a lot of assumptions. The first is that I am "doing a business without working with the FAA". I hold commercial and flight instructor certificates with an IFR rating and tailwheel endorsement. I also have .5 hrs logged in an Air Force C5A motion simulator - that was a blast. I also have .3 hrs in a NASA vertical ascent trainer - Disney has nothing close to it. I have about 1200 hours total, most of it in my own Cessna. Not counting the cost of the Cessna, I have probably spent north of $20 grand over the years from my certificates,ratings and currency check rides. Following the rules and directives of the FAA is very important to me because I risk a certificate action. That's a heck of a lot more risk than a monetary fine for violating rules.

Back to the original question.
If you read your Section 333 exemption, it probably says "Under this grant of exemption, a PIC must hold either an airline transport, commercial, private, recreational, or sport pilot certificate.". Not the exemption holder, the PIC. No, my 333 exemption petition has not been granted yet, but since my associate does have a Section 333 exemption and I have the commercial pilot certificate, we compliment each other. You have the same option. While you are working on your Sport Pilot certificate, you can hire the CFI or any certificated pilot) to fly your drone while you act as the VO. This is likely perfectly legal and in accordance with your Section 333 exemption. This way you can be taking clients as early as next week with clear conscience.

 

[SanCap]

You make a lot of assumptions. The first is that I am "doing a business without working with the FAA". I hold commercial and flight instructor certificates with an IFR rating and tailwheel endorsement. I also have .5 hrs logged in an Air Force C5A motion simulator - that was a blast. I also have .3 hrs in a NASA vertical ascent trainer - Disney has nothing close to it. I have about 1200 hours total, most of it in my own Cessna. Not counting the cost of the Cessna, I have probably spent north of $20 grand over the years from my certificates,ratings and currency check rides. Following the rules and directives of the FAA is very important to me because I risk a certificate action. That's a heck of a lot more risk than a monetary fine for violating rules.

Back to the original question.
If you read your Section 333 exemption, it probably says "Under this grant of exemption, a PIC must hold either an airline transport, commercial, private, recreational, or sport pilot certificate.". Not the exemption holder, the PIC. No, my 333 exemption petition has not been granted yet, but since my associate does have a Section 333 exemption and I have the commercial pilot certificate, we compliment each other. You have the same option. While you are working on your Sport Pilot certificate, you can hire the CFI or any certificated pilot) to fly your drone while you act as the VO. This is likely perfectly legal and in accordance with your Section 333 exemption. This way you can be taking clients as early as next week with clear conscience.

Excellent deescalation and explanation Steve!

 

[richardseguro]

Check and search. I can't recall where exactly but FAA would impose theoretical knowledge examination which would include oral testing by certified flight instructor (CFI) and the FAA written test. On the other hand they won't care much type of aircraft you're certified for since in practical terms all the intricacies of flying a manned aircraft are very different from drone copter flying.

Again, google it and check! I believe FAA regulations should be approved by end of 2015.

Please, anyone, for the benefit of all of us...correct me if I'm wrong in anyway.

Thanks.