Folding props

Have you done glacier expeditions without support teams where you have to film and keep up with groups who won't be stopping?
Yes.

Do you know anyone on the forum who has?
No. But a few have probably already commented, including myself.

If so I'd love for you to direct them here so they can perhaps provide some more constructive advice than you've been giving.
The only reason you think it isn't constructive is because it's not the answer you want to hear.

And I'm sorry, it's a forum dedicated to the phantom. I assumed it was as good a place as any to come for information regarding the phantom and related accessories, or are there better forums out there?
Not really. RC Groups if you can figure out the crappy interface and deal with all the d*ck heads.

I'd love to be able to simply lash it to the outside, it would be a dream come true, but storms, rockfalls, my bag potentially striking things during scrambles, all kinda put me off the idea.
You wouldn't want to lash it in those circumstances. But as you know, those won't be the circumstances 100% of the time.

Listen, glacier treks are going to be a great place for you to drone. Doesn't matter where, from Patagonia to Iceland. They are all beautiful. The biggest single issue you'll face packing out is weight. You don't want an ounce of extra weight. The second biggest issue is going to be getting your exposures right. You'll definetly want to bring an ND16. Maybe even an ND16/CP. you'll probably end up using a 32, or even 64. Those are your challenges. Finding a place to launch is going to be easy. A softer pack is actually ideal because you can wedge it between or on top of snow, boulders, etc to create a semi flat takeoff pad (yes, right from the pack). You'll probably want to hand catch for the landings. For a quick reposition you'll want to come up with some kind of system to lash it on to the outside. A couple bungies should do the trick on most bags.

The P4 is really ideal because it's so small. Also it can fly at high altitudes. Other than that, the P3 is fine. I'd look at a Hexo+ - which you might really like. Hexo+ Your Self-Flying Camera - Auto Follow Gopro Drone

Also a 3DR Solo might be a good cheaper alternative. It's bigger, but it can fly in very cold weather. I've flown one in -30F. Not for long, but it can do it.

Edit: oh, and get an electrostatic stylus to use your phone/tablet without taking off gloves. Electrostatic glove liners are a hassle and your hands will freeze anyway, unless they are like mine and used to it.
 
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Yeah I do lots of hiking and mountain climbing with my P3A. The standard prop can be mounted whilst on the side off a cliff with gloves on easily. The standard props also make good tools for spreading jam on your toast wheras folding props get jam in the hub and its hard to clean out ;-). Just make sure you have enough room in your backpack to fit some of the good advice you can get from this forum. More popcorn anyone?
 

In that case do you mind if I ask how manage your time when it comes to stopping to shoot, and balancing the time it takes to setup the drone and shoot against the distance you'll have to run to catch back up to the group?

The reason for starting the thread is the logic that reducing the time to setup the drone increases time in the air for a given amount of running to catch up. If the risk to the drone can be minimised by finding the best of a bad bunch regarding folding props (as the OP originally stated) then I might consider it worth the trade. Hence stating I knew they weren't great but if there were any preferences out of what's available.


The only reason you think it isn't constructive is because it's not the answer you want to hear.

It's not constructive because it is merely repeating what I stated in the OP I had already read.

You wouldn't want to lash it in those circumstances. But as you know, those won't be the circumstances 100% of the time.

Those circumstances have a chance to happen 100% of the time (well, short of when I'm chilling by the lake in the valley getting ready), therefore my gear needs to be in a state to be prepared for it 100% of the time.

Listen, glacier treks are going to be a great place for you to drone. Doesn't matter where, from Patagonia to Iceland. They are all beautiful. The biggest single issue you'll face packing out is weight. You don't want an ounce of extra weight. The second biggest issue is going to be getting your exposures right. You'll definetly want to bring an ND16. Maybe even an ND16/CP. you'll probably end up using a 32, or even 64. Those are your challenges. Finding a place to launch is going to be easy. A softer pack is actually ideal because you can wedge it between or on top of snow, boulders, etc to create a semi flat takeoff pad (yes, right from the pack). You'll probably want to hand catch for the landings. For a quick reposition you'll want to come up with some kind of system to lash it on to the outside. A couple bungies should do the trick on most bags.

Tbh weight isn't the biggest issue, for me at least. As a guide I'm generally fitter than the paying customers and am already expected to carry more weight than them.

Exposures from the sky is something I'm looking forward to playing around with. I'm used to shooting glaciers from the surface and from underneath with a normal camera, but that is something I have much more control with and am much more familiar with.

The glaciers I'm often on aren't big on snow or rocks, at least not in the areas that are remotely safe with the current climate, so chances are I'll have to be launching off sheet ice. Tbh spiked feet is something I've considered, but I'm not sure it would land with enough force to be effective.

The P4 is really ideal because it's so small. Also it can fly at high altitudes. Other than that, the P3 is fine. I'd look at a Hexo+ - which you might really like. Hexo+ Your Self-Flying Camera - Auto Follow Gopro Drone

Also a 3DR Solo might be a good cheaper alternative. It's bigger, but it can fly in very cold weather. I've flown one in -30F. Not for long, but it can do it.

The P4 would certainly be nice, but as I say a bit out of budget at the moment, and I'd rather buy as soon as possible to give me maximum practise time rather than waiting around for the price to drop.

I've heard worrying things about the 3DR online, but it was my first choice, in part because the drone footage will be cut with gopro footage and it will make matching it in post easier.

Edit: oh, and get an electrostatic stylus to use your phone/tablet without taking off gloves. Electrostatic glove liners are a hassle and your hands will freeze anyway, unless they are like mine and used to it.

I was thinking to just get the material used on the liners and glue bits to the tips of my normal gloves. I've had multiple seasons of being a guide and even longer enjoying the outdoors on my own time and I don't think my hands will ever not feel the cold.
 
Flight test with folding props.
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I've never hike on a glacier and know nothing of it.

I can say the pics of folding props on military aircraft are misleading. Those props work completely different than what is being discussed here. They are mechanically secured when open, and mechanically secured when folded. The props discussed here don't work like that and if they did it would be more trouble than spinning on factory props.


As said, I've never hiked on a glacier and I'm curious about it.

The OP says he will be leading a group with no support, but will have to run to catch up after filming. Is it common to let a group of noobs take off on their own?

How long are the hikes? Is this just a day hike type of thing?

How often will you be going these hikes? Will it be a new form of employment to you?


After reading this entire thread I've come to one conclusion (maybe a couple, but only one that applies). IMO, you are looking at the wrong drone (based on your posts).

Check out flight test and look at their tricopters. They have one that folds so you only have what amounts to a long stick to pack. Uses a GoPro camera and gimbal. And could be built for well under the price of a Phantom 3 or 4. It can use the same stabilization and GPS features as well.

Phantoms are great. I love my although I don't fly it much cause I'm mostly in to planes, but I love it for a flying camera platform and thanks to this site I've never had a scare with it. I read about issues others have had and avoid doing the things that lead to them. Ignoring the advice here is a bad idea. You won't get any video if your bird crashes a couple minutes after takeoff.

Lack of success stories should be nearly as big a red flag as rampant bad experiences. Keep in mind that 99% of Phantom users probably never see this site. Lots of issues will never be reported here.

All that said, I have to agree with many others that even with thick gloves the props will be on before the IMU calibrates and GPS is locked. And those scroll wheels are gonna be a booger.




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I've never hike on a glacier and know nothing of it.

I can say the pics of folding props on military aircraft are misleading. Those props work completely different than what is being discussed here. They are mechanically secured when open, and mechanically secured when folded. The props discussed here don't work like that and if they did it would be more trouble than spinning on factory props.

I realise they are different, but the blazé nature of the statement rubbed me the wrong way.


As said, I've never hiked on a glacier and I'm curious about it.

The OP says he will be leading a group with no support, but will have to run to catch up after filming. Is it common to let a group of noobs take off on their own?

How long are the hikes? Is this just a day hike type of thing?

How often will you be going these hikes? Will it be a new form of employment to you?

Obviously the information about my situation has been fragmented due to responses to different posts and I apologise for any confusion and I'll try to sum it up here.

I'm looking to do promotional material for a place I have worked as a guide. Whilst producing this material I will not actively be taking any of the responsibilities of a guide unless the situation demands; there will be others there to do that. I would be worried if I saw a guide leave a group of complete novices to walk off. What I mean by no support is no means to carry any food/gear but myself. Many of the awesome drone videos I've seen shot in the mountains were done where the approach was made with 4x4s and sherpas, with established basecamps. Videos such as this
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Occasionally a hike will be one day, but rarely. I'll be going on them as often as suitable weather coincides with a group on an interesting route until I have as much material as I desire.


After reading this entire thread I've come to one conclusion (maybe a couple, but only one that applies). IMO, you are looking at the wrong drone (based on your posts).

Check out flight test and look at their tricopters. They have one that folds so you only have what amounts to a long stick to pack. Uses a GoPro camera and gimbal. And could be built for well under the price of a Phantom 3 or 4. It can use the same stabilization and GPS features as well.

Initially I was very open to the options drone wise, but upon enquiring on another, more general site, I was told repeatably and with no amount of tact (much like here tbh) that I was a fool to consider anything but a phantom due to the price, along with the wonderful integrated video system. The control over the video whilst in flight certainly seems appealing, as does the plug and play nature of the device, but I'm no stranger to tinkering so might go back to looking at other, less complete options. The video linked before was clearly shot at least in part with a homemade drone, by the looks of things with no gimbal.

Phantoms are great. I love my although I don't fly it much cause I'm mostly in to planes, but I love it for a flying camera platform and thanks to this site I've never had a scare with it. I read about issues others have had and avoid doing the things that lead to them. Ignoring the advice here is a bad idea. You won't get any video if your bird crashes a couple minutes after takeoff.

Lack of success stories should be nearly as big a red flag as rampant bad experiences. Keep in mind that 99% of Phantom users probably never see this site. Lots of issues will never be reported here.

All that said, I have to agree with many others that even with thick gloves the props will be on before the IMU calibrates and GPS is locked. And those scroll wheels are gonna be a booger.

I often find with anything online the bad gets blown out of proportion in comparison to the good. People love to moan, but unless they are a brand loyalist will rarely go online and start a thread proclaiming the virtues of a product.

Maybe I'll be able to find a store that will let me run one through the whole startup process.
 
Another consideration: take an assistant.

From my general experience in life, both success and failure, you are attempting to do more than you have the ability to do and intend on making it happen through sheer willpower.

Most go through that at some point. And eventually learn their limits.

In this case, you may be simply attempting more than you can handle on the given circumstances and within the limits you have set for yourself.

These guys may be a little gruff at times, but also realize that people come on to forums of every kind to ask a question, don't like the answer, accuse everyone of being rude, then go against the advice given only to reach the outcome predicted. Sometimes there's just no good option that fits the persons criteria and giving an answer that fit would likely still end in failure, yet leave others reading through to believe it's ok.

These machines are pretty well tuned to work in a very specific way, the sensors look for very specific information.

Also, vibration plays havoc on gyros. If these folding props don't remain balanced it could cause some really serious issues, especially with the way the frequency of vibration will change with rotor speed and all 4 rotors can and do turn at different speeds during flight.




Good luck.


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I'm looking at getting a P3, either advanced or professional. Haven't quite decided yet but if you'd like to weigh in on that conundrum you're welcome. Looking at the price at SLR hut it seems silly to not go for the P, but if I were to get it from a local seller the larger price difference makes the decision a lot harder.

Anyway, on to the main question. I'd very much like to get folding props for whichever I buy. I want a drone to take hiking/mountaineering with me, and hence it needs to be kept safe inside my pack (i.e. Without props attached) but must be ready for flight as fast as possible whilst wearing gloves (and therefore not wanting to fiddle any more than necessary).

I know there are a fair number of threads around regarding folding props, and most seem to be full of comments stating "don't use them" without any actual discussion. So on the assumption that I have to use them, which would anyone recommend?
I would never use folding props due to susceptibility to cracking the P3 shell has been known for around the motors, given folding props are less likely to be balanced, versus stock props.
The Microraptor backpack is designed to hold the P3 craft with stock props installed, that's what I'd use in your circumstances.
 
The advice on ways to keep the props on is appreciated but unfortunately I feel for me impractical. To exhaust the possibility beyond doubt, does anyone have an accurate measurement of the drone with props on, aligned with the body to make it as slim as possible, from tip to tip?

With the variety of ropes and tools I have to carry in addition to clothing, food etc, space really is at a premium.


Hi Mate, to each there own.. with standard props fitted to a P3A

Width is 290mm
Length 490mm
height 200mm
 
I've read this stream with interest, and would like to add my own experience. Having been flying a p3p for almost a year now, I have found this forum of immense value in giving balanced advice from people who have a passion for this pursuit. I went through the same learning curve as most on here, making some mistakes on the way. One of them was using non standard props. Although not the folding props, I tried the carbon props on my copter and found them to really degrade the performance and flight time. So I only fly with stock props now. The point I'm making is, I read tons of posts here, mostly advising against, and went ahead.
The majority of guys on here provide immense information based on experience and make this forum an essential source of balanced information. I do hope that you find a solution to your quad requirements and hope you have a chance to film some great footage. I'm not a climber, or an excessive hiker, but have found the MANFROTTO D1 backpack great for providing tons of extra carrying capabilities outside the main case, while allowing the phantom to be carried with props on.
Again, wishing you great luck with your endeavours, and take advice from the guys on here. ( even the arseholes sometimes have something to say)
Peace.


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There are times we wish something would be the answer (folding props) but the problems that are caused compared to the time saved appear to be perhaps more important to pay attention too.
I have see poor flight performance with the slightest little problem with a blade, effecting the flight in such a way you wish you could go back and have noticed it in your pre-flight check.
You may have to devise your own method of getting the solution to the problem, and become rich by selling a whole new product to other DJI users.
 
Another consideration: take an assistant.

From my general experience in life, both success and failure, you are attempting to do more than you have the ability to do and intend on making it happen through sheer willpower.

Most go through that at some point. And eventually learn their limits.

In this case, you may be simply attempting more than you can handle on the given circumstances and within the limits you have set for yourself.

These guys may be a little gruff at times, but also realize that people come on to forums of every kind to ask a question, don't like the answer, accuse everyone of being rude, then go against the advice given only to reach the outcome predicted. Sometimes there's just no good option that fits the persons criteria and giving an answer that fit would likely still end in failure, yet leave others reading through to believe it's ok.

These machines are pretty well tuned to work in a very specific way, the sensors look for very specific information.

Also, vibration plays havoc on gyros. If these folding props don't remain balanced it could cause some really serious issues, especially with the way the frequency of vibration will change with rotor speed and all 4 rotors can and do turn at different speeds during flight.




Good luck.


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Just a thought, you say that you are looking to do promotional work for the place you work at.
I realise they are different, but the blazé nature of the statement rubbed me the wrong way.




Obviously the information about my situation has been fragmented due to responses to different posts and I apologise for any confusion and I'll try to sum it up here.

I'm looking to do promotional material for a place I have worked as a guide. Whilst producing this material I will not actively be taking any of the responsibilities of a guide unless the situation demands; there will be others there to do that. I would be worried if I saw a guide leave a group of complete novices to walk off. What I mean by no support is no means to carry any food/gear but myself. Many of the awesome drone videos I've seen shot in the mountains were done where the approach was made with 4x4s and sherpas, with established basecamps. Videos such as this
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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Occasionally a hike will be one day, but rarely. I'll be going on them as often as suitable weather coincides with a group on an interesting route until I have as much material as I desire.




Initially I was very open to the options drone wise, but upon enquiring on another, more general site, I was told repeatably and with no amount of tact (much like here tbh) that I was a fool to consider anything but a phantom due to the price, along with the wonderful integrated video system. The control over the video whilst in flight certainly seems appealing, as does the plug and play nature of the device, but I'm no stranger to tinkering so might go back to looking at other, less complete options. The video linked before was clearly shot at least in part with a homemade drone, by the looks of things with no gimbal.



I often find with anything online the bad gets blown out of proportion in comparison to the good. People love to moan, but unless they are a brand loyalist will rarely go online and start a thread proclaiming the virtues of a product.

Maybe I'll be able to find a store that will let me run one through the whole startup process.
Just a thought, you say that you are looking at producing promotional material for a place you once worked. Surely this will constitute aerial work as defined by the FAA and the CAA. This would mean that you would have to apply for an Exemption or PFAW through the relevant governing bodies. There is also the issue of commercial insurance to consider. Additionally companies using footage produced by unlicensed persons can be fined heavily. I don't mean to snow on your parade but these are questions that need to be addressed with much greater priority than wether your props fold or not. You say you are on a budget yet neither of these qualifications come cheap. Best of luck, fly safe (and legal).
 
Just a thought, you say that you are looking at producing promotional material for a place you once worked. Surely this will constitute aerial work as defined by the FAA and the CAA. .
If the OP is climbing glaciers, it doesn't matter what the CAA rules are because he's going to be a long way from Britain.
And unless he's planning to climb in Alaska or the small number of glaciers in the lower 48, the FAA will not be relevant either.
 
If the OP is climbing glaciers, it doesn't matter what the CAA rules are because he's going to be a long way from Britain.
And unless he's planning to climb in Alaska or the small number of glaciers in the lower 48, the FAA will not be relevant either.
Yes indeed, in fact I was wondering where he was planning to climb. Other countries have restrictions too, just playing it safe and giving a general heads up to make the OP aware as it would be a shame if he inadvertently fell foul of ANY authorities or found himself defending a claim against anyone.
 
Just a thought, you say that you are looking at producing promotional material for a place you once worked. Surely this will constitute aerial work as defined by the FAA and the CAA. This would mean that you would have to apply for an Exemption or PFAW through the relevant governing bodies. There is also the issue of commercial insurance to consider. Additionally companies using footage produced by unlicensed persons can be fined heavily. I don't mean to snow on your parade but these are questions that need to be addressed with much greater priority than wether your props fold or not. You say you are on a budget yet neither of these qualifications come cheap. Best of luck, fly safe (and legal).

Thanks for the concern and taking the time to bring it up, but I've checked for where I'll be flying and think everything should be fine (mainly in Switzerland).
 
Thanks for the concern and taking the time to bring it up, but I've checked for where I'll be flying and think everything should be fine (mainly in Switzerland).
If your flying in Switzerland, then altitude will be an issue. The Hexo+ does well at altitude. The phantom 4 does ok. Don't know about the P3.
 
If your flying in Switzerland, then altitude will be an issue. The Hexo+ does well at altitude. The phantom 4 does ok. Don't know about the P3.

DJI claims the same max altitude of 6,000m for the P3 as it does for the P4. I'm unlikely to need my drone to go much above 4,000m.
 
DJI claims the same max altitude of 6,000m for the P3 as it does for the P4. I'm unlikely to need my drone to go much above 4,000m.
Performance will degrade significantly at higher altitudes. It will be sluggish, which is fine for smoth video, but less maneuravble so careful in close. Battery drop off is much faster toward the end of flights, so start heading back early. Expect short flights and treat 25% battery as if your at 10%. I would be willing to bet the p4 outperforms the p3 because it's lighter and newer motors. 6 rotor craft (or higher) are better at altitude.
 
Performance will degrade significantly at higher altitudes. It will be sluggish, which is fine for smoth video, but less maneuravble so careful in close. Battery drop off is much faster toward the end of flights, so start heading back early. Expect short flights and treat 25% battery as if your at 10%. I would be willing to bet the p4 outperforms the p3 because it's lighter and newer motors.

Thanks for the tips, definitely things I'll keep in mind.
 

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