Fly Away - P3 Pro: How to Counter the DJI Response

[NRJ]

I had a definite Fly Away with my P3 Pro on December 13. I have retained the video (from the cloud) and it shows the copter flying with no issues, no obstructions in the area, copter was heading NNW at 20 MPH, then a display of "No Signal". I immediately switched from Course Lock to GPS only, and activated Return to Home,... No change. I jumped in my vehicle and headed towards where I knew the copter last was (it was still beeping from RTH), but no change. The video shows no errors in flight, just a loss in signal, It could have kept flying.

I submitted the customer form and video to DJI, and they responded stating that the copter lost signal, that it must be due to external interference and offered a discount on a new unit. I need to know how to counter that statement. My best comeback is that if the copter loses signal (for what ever reason) it is suppose to Return to Home.

Any suggestions are appreciated here.

Kevin

Because they are offering some discount on a new unit of 30%, my guess is that they realize they share some responsibility. I would hit them up for at least a 50% discount. It seems it should RTH with no obstructions. Appears to be a software glitch, but I'm just guessing. Either way counter their offer stating RTH did not function properly therefore you will share the their responsibility at a 50% discount or whatever wording you wish.

 

[jbwill]

Once I found out about Healthy Drones, I started uploading all my logs to them. In 95% of the logs I get these results;
01m 50s 62.0 ft 46 ft Data Loss Downlink data connection lost for 1 seconds.
Sometimes it will be for 1.1 seconds & will occur multiple times in a flight. All my flights are close in height & distance, seems to be no reason for a loss of connection. I would think interference is not an issue, since I'm in a very rural area. All houses, if any are close, are on multiple acres, no power lines/towers, utilities are underground most of the times. It does get very hot here at times, so maybe heat influences the problem. On one flight battery temp got to 147F, after using the same battery for multiple flights with only 5 minutes between flights.

I first wondered if it's a DJI software glitch, related to heat, but on the flights with highest battery temps I didn't get data loss connection,

 

[David Dorman]

I would like to refer back to post #18 by Lonewolf. It seems that he may have identified the cause of the apparent "fly away". He makes the point that the OP did not experience a "Connection Lost" event but a "Video Signal Lost" so the OP could have flown the bird back if he had it in line of sight. If the message had been "Connection Lost" than the RTH function would have kicked in. Does anyone else care to comment? It seems like a very plausible explanation.

 

[WetDog]

Once I found out about Healthy Drones, I started uploading all my logs to them. In 95% of the logs I get these results;
01m 50s 62.0 ft 46 ft Data Loss Downlink data connection lost for 1 seconds.
Sometimes it will be for 1.1 seconds & will occur multiple times in a flight. All my flights are close in height & distance, seems to be no reason for a loss of connection. I would think interference is not an issue, since I'm in a very rural area. All houses, if any are close, are on multiple acres, no power lines/towers, utilities are underground most of the times. It does get very hot here at times, so maybe heat influences the problem. On one flight battery temp got to 147F, after using the same battery for multiple flights with only 5 minutes between flights.

I first wondered if it's a DJI software glitch, related to heat, but on the flights with highest battery temps I didn't get data loss connection,

Brief interruptions in the data link are common. This is a low power signal on cheap, commercial hardware and software. At 2.4 GHz it does not take much to interrupt the connection briefly and the Phantom is designed to deal with this. Which is why it does not initiate an RTH immediately if the signal drops out but instead waits three seconds. The DJI engineers have, in fact, done an impressive job in getting this whole rig to work in mass produced cheap (did I say cheap?) device.

It isn't going to work all of the time. Even the military's million dollar drones screw up occasionally. Fortunately, we're not allowed to run around with live ammo strapped to the back (sigh). I am totally amazed with how much performance they've packed into the Phantoms. Further, I think the stance with giving people a discount on a replacement drone is clever. Get'em hooked. I would personally offer a better discount, but that is a complicated dance between the accounts, engineers and PR folks.

 

[NRJ]

I would like to refer back to post #18 by Lonewolf. It seems that he may have identified the cause of the apparent "fly away". He makes the point that the OP did not experience a "Connection Lost" event but a "Video Signal Lost" so the OP could have flown the bird back if he had it in line of sight. If the message had been "Connection Lost" than the RTH function would have kicked in. Does anyone else care to comment? It seems like a very plausible explanation.

We seem to be getting picky here and when my signal is lost, I get the warning; image signal low or something to that effect. Rather than try to figure it out exactly what happened based on the terminology spoken by the OP versus his memory of what happened, best we take his word for it and wish him less panic in the future. One thing he did right here is to open it up for discussion. I learn a lot just from listening. Experience is our best teacher in the drone school of hard knocks.

 

[skyringmedia]

We've had some issues with our p3p signal loss. We were Abel to get it to come back but there was heavy interface, we have been pretty lucky Each time I was Abel to fly it back manually.

 

[Lonewolf]

We seem to be getting picky here and when my signal is lost, I get the warning; image signal low or something to that effect. Rather than try to figure it out exactly what happened based on the terminology spoken by the OP versus his memory of what happened, best we take his word for it and wish him less panic in the future. One thing he did right here is to open it up for discussion. I learn a lot just from listening. Experience is our best teacher in the drone school of hard knocks.

Your last sentence says it all.

Before you fly you should be absolutely sure you know exactly what the warnings are. If it shows "Signal Lost" you SHOULD know EXACTLY what that warning actually means. That your Video Signal was lost & you should be able to retrieve the craft. All you lost was the video not the craft due to a fly away. Instead of saying as you say, "rather than try to figure it out exactly what happened...."

This is just another example of a pilot error scenario and the OP chose to blame his/her loss on a non-existent malfunction of the craft. Because, if it truly were a "Connection Loss" warning, the craft would have initiated RTH on it's own.

 

[NRJ]

Your last sentence says it all.

Before you fly you should be absolutely sure you know exactly what the warnings are. If it shows "Signal Lost" you SHOULD know EXACTLY what that warning actually means. That your Video Signal was lost & you should be able to retrieve the craft. All you lost was the video not the craft due to a fly away. Instead of saying as you say, "rather than try to figure it out exactly what happened...."

This is just another example of a pilot error scenario and the OP chose to blame his/her loss on a non-existent malfunction of the craft. Because, if it truly were a "Connection Loss" warning, the craft would have initiated RTH on it's own.

I think you mean to be talking to KB_Colorado. I am referring to his original statement about his issue. My warning said Image signal low. I knew what it said and that it was not urgent as in losing my aircraft. KB_Colorado said; I had a definite Fly Away with my P3 Pro on December 13. I have retained the video (from the cloud) and it shows the copter flying with no issues, no obstructions in the area, copter was heading NNW at 20 MPH, then a display of "No Signal, etc., etc.

My point being that everybody here is getting picky and are trying to pin each other down on what the OP said and the OP doesn't even know what the warning actually said. I'm outta this conversation cause it will crash on it's own. Mayday! Mayday!!!

 

[ianwood]

It is a good point to distinguish between video signal lost and connection lost. One will trigger an RTH. The other will not.

Also it is important to note that a connection lost will trigger an RTH after a set number of seconds (don't know the exact count). I do not know if pressing the RTH button will keep sending an RTH command until the drone responds back with an acknowledgement. If it doesn't, it is possible to have a brief loss of connection while pressing the RTH button and then have the connection recover and the drone not RTH.

 

[Lonewolf]

It is a good point to distinguish between video signal lost and connection lost. One will trigger an RTH. The other will not.

Also it is important to note that a connection lost will trigger an RTH after a set number of seconds (don't know the exact count). I do not know if pressing the RTH button will keep sending an RTH command until the drone responds back with an acknowledgement. If it doesn't, it is possible to have a brief loss of connection while pressing the RTH button and then have the connection recover and the drone not RTH.

True & it's a 3 second delay. However the most important thing is with the "Signal Lost or No Signal warning" the OP loses the video signal but continues to have the Map to rely on. Whereas, he/she could have switched to ATTI and brought it back using the "Track" on the Map.

 

[WetDog]

True & it's a 3 second delay. However the most important thing is with the "Signal Lost or No Signal warning" the OP loses the video signal but continues to have the Map to rely on. Whereas, he/she could have switched to ATTI and brought it back using the "Track" on the Map.

How does that work? If you lose the signal, then the attitude on the map isn't going to be correct - you won't know which way you are pointed.

 

[Lonewolf]

How does that work? If you lose the signal, then the attitude on the map isn't going to be correct - you won't know which way you are pointed.

Which loss of signal are you referring to? "No Connection" warning means no communication from your TX to the Phantom. Which will initiate RTH automatically. "No Signal" warning loses only your video feed. No, you will not be able to use FPV but, you can still have your map available to you & your orientation will be correct. Meaning you can use your TX to bring the Phantom back to you.

Let's assume you have no orientation as you say. When you move your left stick back to move South but your craft goes North? Play with the sticks to get it to point in the direction you need to bring it home & follow the "Green Track" to bring it back.

The Map provides you a "White Track" showing you where you've been. The "Green Track" is your RTH track. Therefore, you can use that track info to bring it back to you. Just make sure your altitude is high enough to avoid any obstacles on your way back.

Next time you fly, avoid the FPV & use the Map instead to come back to you. Might be helpful when you really need it.

 

[Damocleez]

Which loss of signal are you referring to? "No Connection" warning means no communication from your TX to the Phantom. Which will initiate RTH automatically. "No Signal" warning loses only your video feed. No, you will not be able to use FPV but, you can still have your map available to you & your orientation will be correct. Meaning you can use your TX to bring the Phantom back to you.

Let's assume you have no orientation as you say. When you move your left stick back to move South but your craft goes North? Play with the sticks to get it to point in the direction you need to bring it home & follow the "Green Track" to bring it back.

The Map provides you a "White Track" showing you where you've been. The "Green Track" is your RTH track. Therefore, you can use that track info to bring it back to you. Just make sure your altitude is high enough to avoid any obstacles on your way back.

Next time you fly, avoid the FPV & use the Map instead to come back to you. Might be helpful when you really need it.

I couldn't agree more with your last statement as well as your entire contribution to this thread. I would also add that one shouldn't rely on the solely map, consider learning to fly by determining orientation then fly manually, that's assuming your are flying VLOS. Also, whenever possible fly into the wind so that in the event of a signal disruption the wind will not be your enemy and could actually assist you since the bird will be flying with the wind rather than against it.

 

[Ken Hanks]

Interference can affect the compass as well. If it doesn't know what direction home is, it can't go home.

Interference to include solar flares, they play havoc on our GPS system.

 

[BudWalker]

I had a definite Fly Away with my P3 Pro on December 13. I have retained the video (from the cloud) and it shows the copter flying with no issues, no obstructions in the area, copter was heading NNW at 20 MPH, then a display of "No Signal". I immediately switched from Course Lock to GPS only, and activated Return to Home,... No change. I jumped in my vehicle and headed towards where I knew the copter last was (it was still beeping from RTH), but no change. The video shows no errors in flight, just a loss in signal, It could have kept flying.

I submitted the customer form and video to DJI, and they responded stating that the copter lost signal, that it must be due to external interference and offered a discount on a new unit. I need to know how to counter that statement. My best comeback is that if the copter loses signal (for what ever reason) it is suppose to Return to Home.

Any suggestions are appreciated here.

Kevin

Kevin found the P3 and posted the .DAT.
Dropbox - FLY181.DAT.
I looked some at it and would appear that the battery turned off when the voltage on cell 1 got below 3.1 volts

However, the battery turned back on about 1 second later.

 

[Ken Hanks]

What was the ambient air temp, did you do a rapid maneuver and current firmware?

 

[BudWalker]

What was the ambient air temp, did you do a rapid maneuver and current firmware?

Attached is a .zip that contains FLY181.csv. There is no ambient temp, but the battery temp could be used as a proxy. I suspect that's what you're after anyway. There is all kinds of info that can determine if there was a rapid maneuver; accelerometer, gyro, velocity, control inputs, etc.

 

[KB_Colorado]

Hello Bud,

Thank you Soooo much for your analysis of the data. First in answer to Ken's question I was not doing any maneuvers, I was flying straight and normal. The ambient temp. was ~+37F and sunny, humidity was low to mid.

Regarding the battery data, I noticed from healthy drones (data below) that Cell 1 was immediately reporting low voltage @ 25 seconds. I am wondering why I didn't get a warning from the DJI SW at that point? Any idea? Especially as it neared a total shutdown scenario.

Also I could use an opinion. It appears that this is in fact a battery failure,.... would you agree? OR Do you think I should go to DJI with this data? I appreciate any advice that you have at this point.

Thanks, Kevin

DATA FROM HEALTHY DRONES

 

[BudWalker]

Go for it!! I remember when HealthyDrones first came out that somebody presented DJI with the HealthyDrones battery analysis. Based on that DJI agreed and gave him a new battery. Maybe they'll do the same for you and give you a new P3. DJI may or may not look at the .DAT file but that will just make your case for you.

It is a little strange that you started at 100% and cell 1 hit critical after just 2 minutes. Cell 4 wasn't far behind. I've not followed the battery discussions closely, maybe someone else can give some advice. @msinger

 

[BudWalker]

Hello Bud,

Thank you Soooo much for your analysis of the data. First in answer to Ken's question I was not doing any maneuvers, I was flying straight and normal. The ambient temp. was ~+37F and sunny, humidity was low to mid.

Regarding the battery data, I noticed from healthy drones (data below) that Cell 1 was immediately reporting low voltage @ 25 seconds. I am wondering why I didn't get a warning from the DJI SW at that point? Any idea? Especially as it neared a total shutdown scenario.

Also I could use an opinion. It appears that this is in fact a battery failure,.... would you agree? OR Do you think I should go to DJI with this data? I appreciate any advice that you have at this point.

Thanks, Kevin

DATA FROM HEALTHY DRONES
View attachment 40988

The real expert on battery issues is @TheRealNick Even, better he's an expert with .DAT files