Federal Property........

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Yesterday I was out shooting a highrise hotel and it just so happen to be next to a federal building. There was zero foot traffic around this building so after scoping the area, I decided to park my car and launch in front of this building. So I did.

Standing on the sidewalk with my bird about 8 foot in the air (I had just lifted off), an armed officer came running towards me waving his arms over his head shouting at me to immediately land. I reached over and grabbed my P4 out of the air. He started going on about how I couldn't fly here, but he couldn't find the paper, (typical senario), and then proceeded to harass. This guy really pissed me off when he tried to tell me I had a fake ID badge and that he knew the FAA rules because he owned a Solo. He went on to tell me I could not fly over the building or take pictures of it! He clearly had no idea what he was saying, but what was I to do? By this time there was two of them and I was starting to get upset which was doing no good. Together, they started accusing me of changing my story. I finally sat my controller down (after he accused me of having a fake ID badge), pulled out my wallet and handed over my DL, FAA 107 card, and a business card. He asked to keep the business card and handed back my licenses. Then I picked up my stuff and walked across the street to get the shots I needed. I found a grass area next to the sidewalk and launched from there. During my 15 min flight, I had about 5 people walk by. I was over a building so I wasn't over anyone, but no body walked in front of this fed building during that 15 minutes, except the officer coming back out to watch me and write down my license plate.

I got my shots, but left feeling bad about the whole thing.

Does anyone know of any laws regarding federal property. I read somewhere (so it's gotta be true:)) that technically the Feds don't own state land. Do they have control of a public sidewalk in front of their building? I'm well aware of the regulations about flying around the building, I'm just concerned about a federal building law I'm unaware of.
 
Its the photography they don't like. When you fly near a Fed building, or local LE, they think you are filming. Whether you are, or not. The Feds can detain you, anytime they want. I hope the pictures you got were worth a chance of arrest.
 
What could they have arrested me for? I though you had to break the law to get arrested. This has nothing to do with what someone doesn't like.
 
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He didn't say arrested...he said detained (for investigation).

There are a small minority of people hostile to government and it's better to be safe than sorry.

Sadly, that guy natural familiar with FAA rules.

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He didn't say arrested...he said detained (for investigation).

There are a small minority of people hostile to government and it's better to be safe than sorry.

Sadly, that guy natural familiar with FAA rules.

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Read the last sentence. "I hope the pictures you got were worth a chance of arrest." So I asked what I could be arrested for. What law did I break capturing pictures and flying if they could arrest?

I highly doubt there are any laws regarding this, just wanted to see if someone here on the board knew of any. I don't, and I am very well versed in US drone regulations, but was told by a federal officer there is.
 
Read the last sentence. "I hope the pictures you got were worth a chance of arrest." So I asked what I could be arrested for. What law did I break capturing pictures and flying if they could arrest?

I highly doubt there are any laws regarding this, just wanted to see if someone here on the board knew of any. I don't, and I am very well versed in US drone regulations, but was told by a federal officer there is.
Laws violated: 0.

If they had arrested or even detained you, they would have been in direct violation of Department of Homeland Security rules and training. In 2009, Antonio Musumeci was arrested on Nov. 9, 2009 after recording with a hand-held video camera a protestor in a public plaza outside the Daniel Patrick Moynihan Federal Courthouse in Manhattan. Musumeci filed a lawsuit against the DHS in Federal court and won.

From this summary posted by the NYCLU:

On Oct. 13, 2010, a federal judge signed a settlement in which the federal government agreed that no federal statutes or regulations bar photography of federal courthouses from publicly accessible property. It agreed to issue a nationwide directive to members of the Federal Protective Service (the agency responsible for all government buildings) instructing them about the rights of photographers. Since Musumeci had been charged with violating a regulation that applied to all federal property, not just courthouses, the NYCLU hold the position that the settlement in effect covers photography og[sic] all federal buildings.

You might want to keep a copy of that ruling in your drone case. Next time they harass you, show them the ruling and ask them to verify it before doing anything else.
 
Or you could answer their questions politely...but insist on flying when your done if no AMA guidelines violated.

Agree you will abide by any lawful order (anything a cop instructs you to do, within reason of not hurting others)...but insist on a supervisor and explain why your right. Only a judge can determine of your rights are violated....you have to obey a lawful order if the person has jurisdiction.

Hopefully you will educate the department involved.

Ps - not a sheep...just watch a lot of TV shows Cops and Jail...and lots of legal answers on Quora.

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But
AMA guidelines only apply to AMA members. Even then, they could only kick the person out of their club.
AMA is a recognized CBO by the FAA. Flying in line with their guidelines means that you fully compliant with the FAA's recommendations as a hobby flier.
 
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AMA is a recognized CBO by the FAA. Flying in line with their guidelines means that you fully compliant with the FAA's recommendations as a hobby flier.

I'm a CBO as well. Does not mean you need to follow my guidelines as well. CBO is a very loose and opened ended wording put into the regulation. It was put in so that organizations, such as the AMA, could have their own "rules". For example, the AMA might run a local airfield and want to set up their own guidelines for flight. Another club might set up their guidelines for races. The CBO clause allows them to do this... but it does not allow them to create regulations that rule people that are not participating or non-members. The AMA wants to look important so thay "ran" a little with the claim that they were a "recognized" CBO by the FAA. Not untrue but also kind of toothless.

The AMA can make up any rules they want.... if you are not an AMA member, you don't need to abide by them at all.

Unfortunately, other organizations (such as townships and cities) also attempt to use the same clause to make actual laws regulating airspace.
 
Actually, the AMA is specifically pointed out as an example of a CBO (per the FAA, that is a "nationwide Community-based Organization". no individuals or local organizations fit tat description). I agree that the AMA (I'm a member BTW), got a bit high handed in reading that to mean that you had to be a member. Because of congressional action, the FAA doesn't set any rules for hobby sUAS flying. By suggesting that you follow a set of guidelines such as those of the AMA, they are establishing the baseline of what they consider to be safe flying. Flying outside of those boundaries might be considered to be 'unsafe' or 'reckless' and that would have some teeth to it.
 
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Its the photography they don't like. When you fly near a Fed building, or local LE, they think you are filming. Whether you are, or not. The Feds can detain you, anytime they want. I hope the pictures you got were worth a chance of arrest.

Fiddlesticks.

We should not fear our own government. They may be able to arrest but that doesn't make it a LEGAL arrest.

This sort of attitude is what is leading us down the path, who knows if it can ever be reversed.
 
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Fiddlesticks.

We should not fear our own government. They may be able to arrest but that doesn't make it a LEGAL arrest.

This sort of attitude is what is leading us down the path, who knows if it can ever be reversed.
Only a judge can determine a legal arrest.

If your polite and speak to the supervisor I'm sure you could still fly (and educate the department that works for you).

If your impolite, things can happen like "obstructing" and investigation or excessive detainment. Or maybe not. Anyway it is a risk I would not take.

Just explaining reality as I see it.



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Over zealous Rent A Cop

Before sUASs were in hobby use i had an incident right after 09/11. I was outside of a Federal Installation and I was filming the entry gate. I had 3 cops surround me and tried to tell me that I could not be filming the location. (given the state of America at the time, I understood their hypersensitivity) I told them I was allowed to film there. The commander of the installation (AF Colonel) came out to the gate and told the cops to stand down. They were wrong.

There are a few youtube videos that show sUAS operators flying near federal installations or prisons or jails and the cops trying to chase off the operator. Ridiculousness. Uninformed officials.
 
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Yesterday I was out shooting a highrise hotel and it just so happen to be next to a federal building. There was zero foot traffic around this building so after scoping the area, I decided to park my car and launch in front of this building. So I did.

Standing on the sidewalk with my bird about 8 foot in the air (I had just lifted off), an armed officer came running towards me waving his arms over his head shouting at me to immediately land. I reached over and grabbed my P4 out of the air. He started going on about how I couldn't fly here, but he couldn't find the paper, (typical senario), and then proceeded to harass. This guy really pissed me off when he tried to tell me I had a fake ID badge and that he knew the FAA rules because he owned a Solo. He went on to tell me I could not fly over the building or take pictures of it! He clearly had no idea what he was saying, but what was I to do? By this time there was two of them and I was starting to get upset which was doing no good. Together, they started accusing me of changing my story. I finally sat my controller down (after he accused me of having a fake ID badge), pulled out my wallet and handed over my DL, FAA 107 card, and a business card. He asked to keep the business card and handed back my licenses. Then I picked up my stuff and walked across the street to get the shots I needed. I found a grass area next to the sidewalk and launched from there. During my 15 min flight, I had about 5 people walk by. I was over a building so I wasn't over anyone, but no body walked in front of this fed building during that 15 minutes, except the officer coming back out to watch me and write down my license plate.

I got my shots, but left feeling bad about the whole thing.

Does anyone know of any laws regarding federal property. I read somewhere (so it's gotta be true:)) that technically the Feds don't own state land. Do they have control of a public sidewalk in front of their building? I'm well aware of the regulations about flying around the building, I'm just concerned about a federal building law I'm unaware of.
In Idaho, what you did would be against the law, and although I'm not a resident of Oregon (as you are?), I did notice during my research on Idaho laws, that Oregon has some fairly onerous drone laws as well. I did not read much on the OR specifics. While the federal regulations are fairly loose, apparently the states can be as ridiculous as they so choose.
 
In Idaho, what you did would be against the law, and although I'm not a resident of Oregon (as you are?), I did notice during my research on Idaho laws, that Oregon has some fairly onerous drone laws as well. I did not read much on the OR specifics. While the federal regulations are fairly loose, apparently the states can be as ridiculous as they so choose.

Oregon only has a few drone "laws" and they have have to do specifically with parks.

I didn't break any laws in any state, in has nothing to do with a state or state laws, ect.
 
Oregon only has a few drone "laws" and they have have to do specifically with parks.

I didn't break any laws in any state, in has nothing to do with a state or state laws, ect.
I didn't say you did. I said what you did was illegal in idaho.
 

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