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E600 Tuned Propulsion Pros/Cons

Discussion in 'Other DJI Multi-Rotors' started by jonathanivy, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. jonathanivy

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    I am looking to build an F550, I am looking at the E300 or the E600 Tuned Propulsion Systems for it. From what I can see the E600 is a clear winner. at 1600g per axis and a total lift of 9.6kg thats a significant increase in lift over the E300 system. Even with having to use the heavier 6S Lipos which are only about 500g heavier than a 4S. I am new to this, is there something I am missing? Thanks!
     
  2. EMCSQUAR

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    Nope, it's an excellent set up & make sure you buy the Naza V2 set to go with it.
     
  3. OI Photography

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    The E600 is a very good kit, but putting one on your 550 would be like putting a 7.3L Diesel engine in your little pickup truck...it'll barely fit and you won't be able to use the right size of tires (props). The E600 is designed for (and comes with) 12" blades, but 10" are the largest you can put on a stock 550 frame.

    Are you building this right away? I have a feeling DJI won't keep avoiding the 4S segment and may have better options for 550 motors before long. Either way, 6S in general is overkill for a 550, most of us run 4S to maximize lift w/o overpowering it or bogging it down with batteries that are heavier than they need to be.

    EMC do you have E600 on a 550? What props? (or, what arms?)
     
  4. EMCSQUAR

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    Nope, I help a guy build one (and I stand corrected now that I think of it) It was the 6pak E300 set up we used.
     
  5. OI Photography

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    Yeah at the moment E300's are the more suitable option for a 550, but even though they're great motors too they can leave a little to be desired when you start packing a lot onboard.
     
  6. ElGuano

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    Yep, if you go e600 on f550 you have to start thinking about $$ for extended arms (even if you could run them on the stock arms, they'd be too flexy for such powerful motors).

    The real question is what you want to do with it; what are your goals and what is your anticipated payload?
     
  7. SanCap

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    "Are you building this right away? I have a feeling DJI won't keep avoiding the 4S segment and may have better options for 550 motors before long"

    I agree, DJI must have something new coming out. I am starting to see prices going down on the E3300/E600. I did just buy a hex set for my 550. At 120 and 180 dollars (for the E300) that is a pretty good price for spares. http://www.heli-world.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=DJIE3004+DJIE3006+DJIE6004+DJIE6006
     
  8. SanCap

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    Compare 2 3S 5100 mah batteries with 1 6S battery from RMRC. 1 10,000mah 6S = 1447 grams at 160 dollars http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53_84_333&products_id=2328, 2 5100 mah 3S batteries = 740 grams at 100 dollars http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53_84_215&products_id=3058. It seems that you will loose a lot of the advantage of the higher lifting capacity of the E600 motors by the added weight of the batteries needed to power them. Those 6S batteries are pricey! I am sure there is a lot more to it than that but I am just looking at the obvious.
     
  9. SanCap

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  10. ElGuano

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    The reason the 6S battery is twice as heavy is because there are twice as many cells in a given pack of the same capacity. You can't compare motors requiring differing voltages like that. The E600 in addition to having double the recommended lift, also has almost max thrust at almost 3x the recommended lift, versus the E300 at 2x. It's just apples to oranges. But yes, 6S batteries are 1) darned heavy, and 2) more costly than 3S.
     
  11. SanCap

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    "The reason the 6S battery is twice as heavy is because there are twice as many cells in a given pack of the same capacity. You can't compare motors requiring differing voltages like that. The E600 in addition to having double the recommended lift, also has almost max thrust at almost 3x the recommended lift, versus the E300 at 2x. It's just apples to oranges. But yes, 6S batteries are 1) darned heavy, and 2) more costly than 3S."

    I have read a lot of your posts and have respect for your knowledge. So lets say we have 2 550's, 1 with E300 motors and the other with E600 motors. We want to be able to fly, lets just say 10 minutes each. How much more weight will the E600 equipped 550 carry compared to the E300 equipped 550. Also assuming we have the same amount of battery reserve using whatever battery is most appropriate for the test?
     
  12. ElGuano

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    If you make an f550 as light as it can go, all you'd need is a 2200mah 3s for 10min flight.

    The answer to your question has a LOT of variables including payload, difference in weight of motors, extended arms, batteries, etc., but ballpark, you're looking at about 3000mah 3s for e300, and probably about 2500mah 6s for e600. Unladen. Start adding things like gimbals, cameras and landing gear and the requirements go up dramatically.
     
  13. SanCap

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    I guess I am not asking my question properly. So my question is how much more weight will the F550/E300 with the 3000 mah 3S carry vs the F550/E600 with the 2500 mah 6S carry for the 10 minute flight with a 20% reserve? Both units are setup the same except for the battery.
     
  14. ElGuano

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    Technically, zero. Once you add appreciable weight to either config neither will fly for 10 minutes anymore on those batteries.

    It's a bit of a loaded question, but you can probably add 1kg in payload to an e300 f550 and keep a 10min flight using some battery, but it won't fly very well. The e600 would take 1kg payload and not blink an eye.
     
  15. jonathanivy

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    Ok so I want to be literal. Below is my projected build with according weights obtained from spec sheets. Is this correct? If so anyone experienced enough to estimate flight times? Also is there anything I am missing? Or anything I should add/subtract? Thanks!

    F550:
    Frame - 478g
    E600 Motors 90g*6- 540g
    Naza Autopilot System - 95g
    iOSD Mini - 14g
    BTU - 17g
    Standard Landing Gear - 15g
    6S Battery - 1111g
    Receiver - 10g
    Ultra small 2-axis Gimbal - 140g
    Sony RX100 II Camera - 281g
    FPV - 95g

    Total Weight - 2796g
    Total Lift from E600 Propulsion - 9600g
    Leftover Lift Weight - 6804g
     
  16. OI Photography

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    There's a couple of factors to consider based on that info. First, the E600's on a 550 are more of a theoretical exercise since the stock arms on a 550 aren't long enough to let you run the 12" props in the E600 set.

    Also, it looks like the lift figures you're quoting for the E600 kit are the max numbers listed. It's usually best to look at the 50% power figures to know what operational weight range you want to stay within. The E600's still have more than enough overhead for the equipment you're talking about, but 4800g would be the target 2:1 thrust/weight ratio you want to stay at or below if possible.
     
  17. ElGuano

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    What's interesting about the E600 is that the max thrust is closer to 3x the recommended thrust. DJI tends to be conservative in its recommendations, but until we actually get a lift test, I would work with the 600g/axis value, which we're still well under. Is that 1111g battery an 8000mah? My guess is if you're shooting for 10 minutes, this will get you there.

    As OI stated, assuming your frame weight includes plates, arms, screws, and solder, you'll need to add another 50-100g to account for extended length arms with enough space to run the 12" props.
     
  18. rilot

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    Stop thinking about the e600 on an f550. The motors are too low kv for the max 10 inch props you can fit on that frame without extended arms and so you will actually get less lift than with the e300 system with 10 inch props.
    If you want to lift a lot of weight then go for something larger such as an s900.
     
  19. ElGuano

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    I think it's a given that extended arms (or less common, y6) would be needed for an f550 build on e600. It's a fine platform for that and worth discussing over a huge leap to something like an s900.

    Now, when you're spending $200 more on 6x extended arms, you really have to start thinking about whether something like a Tarot 680/90 folding frame may be a better decision!
     
  20. SanCap

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    I think the standard landing gear is 15 grams per leg not 15 grams total.