Drones and the Surveying Professional

[JayinSC]

You may want to read carefully whatever the law/regulation thats being referenced. In California (go ahead and insert joke) a Licensed Surveyor, Pre 1982 Civil Engineer or Licensed Photogrammetrist are the only professionals allowed to preform the works you are stating you charge for. While accuracy is always important in this case its not the item that governs this issue. Whether this is right, wrong, fair or unfair it is the current legal framework for most states I believe. I can site many examples of where technology has moved beyond the need or requirement for college degrees, licensing, etc. Never the less it is what it is.

If you feel what you are doing is legal, correct and feel confident to back it up if confronted by responsible regulatory bodies then go for it. I'm not the survey police lol

 

[Theo450]

The State Board of Registration defines Photogrammetry services as Land Surveying. Does not matter if you claim to be Surveyor or not, you are still offering the services of a Land Surveyor and must be Licensed to offer the service. Same thing if somebody offered the service to mark your property lines for fencing, but told the client they were not a Surveyor, so they might not be perfectly marked, but hey, I'm cheaper than a Surveyor, so no problem. You are still in violation of State Statutes, whether you call yourself a Surveyor or not. I see the companies that are fined in my quarterly bulletins from the Board for just his thing all the time.

What authority does the state board of registration have? i am not claiming to be registered. It is like the duck police saying I can't flap my arms. I am not claiming to be a duck, or that I can fly. I don't see that there is anything to regulate if I just want to flap my arms.

By the way, I am more expensive than the surveyor. It is not about price for me.

 

[Theo450]

You may want to read carefully whatever the law/regulation thats being referenced. In California (go ahead and insert joke) a Licensed Surveyor, Pre 1982 Civil Engineer or Licensed Photogrammetrist are the only professionals allowed to preform the works you are stating you charge for. While accuracy is always important in this case its not the item that governs this issue. Whether this is right, wrong, fair or unfair it is the current legal framework for most states I believe. I can site many examples of where technology has moved beyond the need or requirement for college degrees, licensing, etc. Never the less it is what it is.

If you feel what you are doing is legal, correct and feel confident to back it up if confronted by responsible regulatory bodies then go for it. I'm not the survey police lol

"The works you are stating you charge for" I took some pictures, used some software and made some estimations based on the data and the analysis thereof. I did not pretend to seal anything with an engineering or surveyor's seal, or misrepresent myself or the data or the analysis in any way. Why is this not "legal"?

Oh, and by the way again, I do have a college degree.

 

[JayinSC]

I, and some other nice surveyors, were attempting to answer your question. You seem to not like the answers. I suggest you contact someone other than a tech blog for free advice.

 

[Theo450]

Actually, the questions started out as yours, see your post #16. the consensus among the surveyor's seems to be that only licensed surveyor's can use their drones to collect and analyze data, to which I say... Poppycock!

I am sorry if you don't like the answers you are getting.

 

[nwairphotos]

It seems to me it's a different story if the client is making the measurements himself.

It's not the same as determining boundary lines. If I gave someone a vertical image and he knew that the distance between points A and B is 400 feet, then he could reasonably determine that a point mid-way between them is 200 feet from A or B. So what if I give him a ruler to help or instead give him an image that he can measure online with online tools?

 

[DmaxSurveyor]

I, and some other nice surveyors, were attempting to answer your question. You seem to not like the answers. I suggest you contact someone other than a tech blog for free advice.

Jay, I just gave up trying to be helpful. Some people just don't listen to facts, no matter how many times you repeat them. Reminds me of my favorite quote “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Beware the duck police!!

 

[Theo450]

Jay, I just gave up trying to be helpful. Some people just don't listen to facts, no matter how many times you repeat them. Reminds me of my favorite quote “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Beware the duck police!!

Lol, repeating them does not make them facts. All I have seen here is opinion. Just like your opinion that I am an idiot. You are losing credibility by name calling.

 

[JayinSC]

Its all worth it for that wise saying .

I'm sure DmaxSurveyors credentials have not changed in the last few days, they are hard to earn.

Here's your free tech advice.

An example is:
http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/laws/pls_act.pdf

8726. Land surveying defined

 

[nwairphotos]

This is what I found regarding NC law:

That definition, as put forth by NCEES, generally states that anyone offering services to the public that involves the collection of authoritative, or data that has a stated accuracy, would fall under the definition of surveying.

- See more at: NC PLS Grandfathering Provision for GIS Professionals - xyHt


It seems that "stated accuracy" is the key. If no claims are made regarding accuracy, it seems it would not fall under the definition of Land Surveying. It seems then that the client can determine accuracy for himself by making his own tests of the data.

 

[Theo450]

8704 Read it. The definition of land surveying is meaningless if I am not a land surveyor.

You got yourself a self licking ice cream cone.

 

[Pepino Grande]

This may seem somewhat off the topic but in the 1980s and 90s I served in the U.S. Air Force as a navigator. The title of "Navigator" was rated position and took over a year of intensive training and required an Officer with at least a Bachelors degree. When GPS came along we generally scoffed at the idea we would be replaced because of the high precision, high speeds, and multiple other variables that were used in our work. I taught the last class of rated navigators in 2002. We almost all replaced by a 6 month non-rated systems operator. I hope this does not happen to you and many other professionals but the fight against technology can be frustrating and futile. I feel people will be able to take away much of the surveyor's work by simply calling themselves consultants, and the glacial pace of government regulations may not be able to keep up.

 

[Theo450]

This may seem somewhat off the topic but in the 1980s and 90s I served in the U.S. Air Force as a navigator. The title of "Navigator" was rated position and took over a year of intensive training and required an Officer with at least a Bachelors degree. When GPS came along we generally scoffed at the idea we would be replaced because of the high precision, high speeds, and multiple other variables that were used in our work. I taught the last class of rated navigators in 2002. We almost all replaced by a 6 month non-rated systems operator. I hope this does not happen to you and many other professionals but the fight against technology can be frustrating and futile. I feel people will be able to take away much of the surveyor's work by simply calling themselves consultants, and the glacial pace of government regulations may not be able to keep up.

My old man was an F4 driver. He would say something like, "There is nothing better than a thumb and four fingers on the stick."

 

[TSHiggins]

8704 Read it. The definition of land surveying is meaningless if I am not a land surveyor.

You got yourself a self licking ice cream cone.

You're reading it incorrectly. 8704 doesn't render 8726 invalid, it's in addition to.

As far as what the "Duck Police" can do, they can charge you with multiple counts of a misdemeanor, or a felony if it's warranted.

 

[Theo450]

You're reading it incorrectly. 8704 doesn't render 8726 invalid, it's in addition to.

As far as what the "Duck Police" can do, they can charge you with multiple counts of a misdemeanor, or a felony if it's warranted.

I don't think I am reading it incorrectly. I am not a land surveyor. Therefore, I could not possibly be practicing the art of land surveying. It seems crystal clear.

 

[TSHiggins]

I don't think I am reading it incorrectly. I am not a land surveyor. Therefore, I could not possibly be practicing the art of land surveying. It seems crystal clear.

Multiple misdemeanors and felonies prosecuted against people who held the same opinion might disagree. If you do any of the things in 8726, you're land surveying, and you need a license in CA.

 

[Theo450]

Multiple misdemeanors and felonies prosecuted against people who held the same opinion might disagree. If you do any of the things in 8726, you're land surveying, and you need a license in CA.

I have now read dozens of violations specific to California. Without fail they all cite that the surveyor, engineer, or geologists that were charged misrepresented themselves as a "licensed professional" and... went so far as to FORGE their stamp seal and credentials on documents. This does not at all describe the activities that I am proposing. Your collective paranoia about the fact that no one else is allowed to do what "land surveyors" do is completely ridiculous. If if an individual does not profess to be a land surveyor, then the rules of land surveying do not apply. This fact may diminish the credibility of that person's work product. Perhaps that diminished work product is sufficient to meet the needs of the client. Perhaps not. Perhaps, as I have found on many occasions, the surveyor has screwed it up, and the "survey" is off by 15 to 40 feet, and perhaps that error has been propagated for 20 years by various surveyors that have continued on with the original surveyors control without verification of perceived reality. After all, the earth is not round. It is a big lumpy rock. So, survey if you must, don't if you don't have to, but don't pretend that you can dictate what others who are not trying to do what you do can do.

 

[TSHiggins]

I have now read dozens of violations specific to California. Without fail they all cite that the surveyor, engineer, or geologists that were charged misrepresented themselves as a "licensed professional" and... went so far as to FORGE their stamp seal and credentials on documents. This does not at all describe the activities that I am proposing. Your collective paranoia about the fact that no one else is allowed to do what "land surveyors" do is completely ridiculous. If if an individual does not profess to be a land surveyor, then the rules of land surveying do not apply. This fact may diminish the credibility of that person's work product. Perhaps that diminished work product is sufficient to meet the needs of the client. Perhaps not. Perhaps, as I have found on many occasions, the surveyor has screwed it up, and the "survey" is off by 15 to 40 feet, and perhaps that error has been propagated for 20 years by various surveyors that have continued on with the original surveyors control without verification of perceived reality. After all, the earth is not round. It is a big lumpy rock. So, survey if you must, don't if you don't have to, but don't pretend that you can dictate what others who are not trying to do what you do can do.

Sorry, you're incorrect. There are plenty of cases involving unlicensed practice without the requirement of claiming to be a surveyor or engineer. Generally these don't escalate because the unlicensed practitioner ceases once they get the warning.

But feel free to perform topographic survey or photogrammetric survey in California without a license and share your thoughts with the Board. I'm sure your internet based research will hold a lot of sway.

 

[Theo450]

Sorry, you're incorrect. There are plenty of cases involving unlicensed practice without the requirement of claiming to be a surveyor or engineer. Generally these don't escalate because the unlicensed practitioner ceases once they get the warning.

But feel free to perform topographic survey or photogrammetric survey in California without a license and share your thoughts with the Board. I'm sure your internet based research will hold a lot of sway.

As do your opinions and assumptions.

 

[DmaxSurveyor]

Okay, my last try.

From the North Carolina Board of Examiners for Engineers & Surveyors website.

Oblique Aerial Photography
Volume Computation Survey

This includes "I took some pictures, used some software and made some estimations based on the data and the analysis thereof. I did not pretend to seal anything with an engineering or surveyor's seal, or misrepresent myself or the data or the analysis in any way. Why is this not "legal"?". Yes, this is defined as Photogrammetry and Volume Computation Surveying & you must be a Licensed Land Surveyor in NC to offer that service. If you perform these services for a profit, you are in violation of NC state law. You seem to be under the belief that as long as you don't claim to be Surveyor, all is good. It does not matter if you claim to be a Surveyor or not, by offering these services, you are practicing Land Surveying in NC. Not sure how to make it any clearer. The Authority the Board has is granted by the State Legislature, with all Board members appointed by the Governor.

By your logic, I can do so many things!

-Put a cast on someones broken arm, but hey, as long as I don't call myself a Doctor, I'm fine.
-Rewire someones house, but hey, as long as I don't call myself an Electrician, I'm fine.
-Build someones house, , but hey, as long as I don't call myself a Builder, I'm fine.
-Represent someone in Court, but hey, as long as I don't call myself an Attorney, I'm fine.

Fortunately, all these Professions require a License to offer these services. Just like Land Surveying.

Beware the duck police!!

ps: Pretty sure ducks don't have to be licensed to flap there wings!