DJI at CES - Allegedly new product to be unveiled

Morgon · Dec 8, 2014

spudraleigh said:
Aren't the GP3+ or GP4 4K enough for you? Isn't the switch to new ESC's, higher thrust motors, better lift and more stable props, a shielded compass, and new transmitter with better gimbal control and a training port enough to obviate the need for a Phantom 3. We are sort of already at a Phantom 3 level. Now, if they introduced a new solid state anti-grav drive with or without time travel built in, I would run to the store to grab one!

Are you truly suggesting that now that these things exist, there's no need to innovate or evolve the industry more?

"640 k ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

All of the things you listed are wonderful things indeed, but between technology (cameras, even better motors, flight controllers), building/structural materials (that fragile gimbal), and feature sets ('follow-me', 'POI', 'active-avoidance'), there are a ton of things that DJI (or any other vendor) can do to make a product that would make sense to release.

Some of these can be done with incremental firmware and hardware updates to the existing line, as you mentioned, but if they've found that a large combination of these things require a new product, that's up to them. If you think the P2V(+) is best for you, that's great. Some people want bigger (figuratively) and better.

spudraleigh · Dec 10, 2014

NO! I am answering the original question that asked about a mythical Phantom 3.

As a scientist I in no way support the death of inventing, discovering and building great products that people want. Also, I have absolutely no interest in a P2V+ but if/when a Phantom 3 arrives I will be as happy as the next guy because I love technology. But it really should be called a P4 since, with all the changes in P2V2 it is basically the p3. Other than that, I agree with everything you said!

MacCool · Dec 10, 2014

spudraleigh said:
Aren't the GP3+ or GP4 4K enough for you? Isn't the switch to new ESC's, higher thrust motors, better lift and more stable props, a shielded compass, and new transmitter with better gimbal control and a training port enough to obviate the need for a Phantom 3. We are sort of already at a Phantom 3 level. Now, if they introduced a new solid state anti-grav drive with or without time travel built in, I would run to the store to grab one!

The flagship Phantom, the Vision+ v3.0, has a mediocre camera that has mediocre video, is excessively fragile, not repairable, and expensive to replace. Yes, we could, instead, get the Phantom 2 v 2.0 with Zenmuse, then buy a GoPro, then spend a few hundred more dollars and some bench work to build a Phantom 2 with good video, a more robust gimbal, and good FPV. I have about 40 years experience building and flying R/C airplanes, but even I'm not particularly interested in that route.

There's a market gap there....an RTF Phantom 2 v 2.0 with a good good camera, a robust gimbal, and built-in FPV...that should be the Phantom 2 Vision +, and if DJI is smart, that's what they'll introduce at CES. Because if they don't, I suspect that GoPro will.

DJI already has the flying platform. They have fallen short on some of the more important details. They'd better catch up. Consumer quad drones is a market that's likely to heat up.

Prylar Bek · Dec 10, 2014

MacCool said:
spudraleigh said:

Aren't the GP3+ or GP4 4K enough for you? Isn't the switch to new ESC's, higher thrust motors, better lift and more stable props, a shielded compass, and new transmitter with better gimbal control and a training port enough to obviate the need for a Phantom 3. We are sort of already at a Phantom 3 level. Now, if they introduced a new solid state anti-grav drive with or without time travel built in, I would run to the store to grab one!

Click to expand...

The flagship Phantom, the Vision+ v3.0, has a mediocre camera that has mediocre video, is excessively fragile, not repairable, and expensive to replace. Yes, we could, instead, get the Phantom 2 v 2.0 with Zenmuse, then buy a GoPro, then spend a few hundred more dollars and some bench work to build a Phantom 2 with good video, a more robust gimbal, and good FPV. I have about 40 years experience building and flying R/C airplanes, but even I'm not particularly interested in that route.

There's a market gap there....an RTF Phantom 2 v 2.0 with a good good camera, a robust gimbal, and built-in FPV...that should be the Phantom 2 Vision +, and if DJI is smart, that's what they'll introduce at CES. Because if they don't, I suspect that GoPro will.

DJI already has the flying platform. They have fallen short on some of the more important details. They'd better catch up. Consumer quad drones is a market that's likely to heat up.

so very true...we will see. i'm going to CES

sbarton · Dec 10, 2014

While I really want POI and Follow Me features, these are software (app) and firmware updates, not hardware. These could easily be implemented in the current line of P2 Products if they focused on programming for it.

What they need is a 4k Phantom Vision+, a more durable gimbal and camera, separate the gimbal/camera from the telemetry and make it easier/cheaper to replace just the gimbal or just the camera. Also an out of the box P2 for GoPro4 that has FPV and GS, no modding. A new Tx with extra switches that would allow you to add things or functionality to the flight controller would be cool. ie a switch to operate retractable landing gears, or turn off and on lights, etc. Maybe a momentary switch you can map to taking a photo or start/stopping video, which ever you like. You can customize it the way you want.

Real obstacle avoidance is a few years out so very doubtful we'll see that soon.

-Scott

MacCool · Dec 10, 2014

sbarton said:
While I really want POI and Follow Me features, these are software (app) and firmware updates, not hardware. These could easily be implemented in the current line of P2 Products if they focused on programming for it.

What they need is a 4k Phantom Vision+, a more durable gimbal and camera, separate the gimbal/camera from the telemetry and make it easier/cheaper to replace just the gimbal or just the camera. Also an out of the box P2 for GoPro4 that has FPV and GS, no modding. A new Tx with extra switches that would allow you to add things or functionality to the flight controller would be cool. ie a switch to operate retractable landing gears, or turn off and on lights, etc. Maybe a momentary switch you can map to taking a photo or start/stopping video, which ever you like. You can customize it the way you want.

Real obstacle avoidance is a few years out so very doubtful we'll see that soon.

-Scott

Yes, exactly, but I doubt that DJI is ready to throw in the towel on an in-house camera and turn that revenue over to GoPro. It's a Chinese company. I have no doubt that they can bring a gimbal/4k camera in far cheaper and with a much better profit margin that subbing out to GoPro. I wouldn't be surprised to see them leave the recently-upgraded Phantom 2 v2.0 part alone and put on a real camera...something that will actually be able to give a GoPro drone a run for its money. Right now, I'd buy the GoPro drone in a heartbeat just for a drone with FPV and with a good camera. If DJI were to come up with a robust gimbal and a camera that even came close to competing with the current GoPros, I'd stick with the more mature product and I'll bet most others would too. Oh, and I'd like to be able to fit that new DJI camera/gimble directly onto my current Vision +.

Obstacle avoidance....that seems likely. I have an old Parrott drone with the ultrasonic sensors for altitude maintenance. They work great for that and I could see that technology incorporated, but I doubt it would happen in a consumer-level drone. I think that kind of stuff starts making the thing too heavy and too expensive to have the kind of mass-market appeal that the Phantom 2 does.

Prylar Bek · Dec 10, 2014

Well how come NO ONE has been able to beat GP at their game? And you think DJI can? Please, not going to happen. Check back here next year and see if DJI will be in business after GP hits the market with their drone. They got deep, deep pockets ($3B market cap!!) and they are in the PHOTOGRAPHY business. DJI only thinks they are. Different business plan. From the outset GP's posted videos were EXCELLENT, not the crap that DJI's affiliates puts out. (Octosuck films anyone?) GP 's message was clear and consistent...lifestyle photography at its best...cant beat it and can't argue their success...Stand by, going to be fun!

Morgon · Dec 10, 2014

Except you're forgetting the market of the cameras. GPs are for action, and Phantoms generally excel at landscape photo-/videography. Most serious studios using these things have said as much.

Besides, it's not like GoPro makes their own electronics, so I don't see how it wouldn't be possible for DJI to copy, if not exceed the hardware.

Prylar Bek · Dec 10, 2014

Really? And after you have seen the various landscape, etc., stuff...how far will that take you? When GP's Drones are used showing boarders, skiers, surfers from above...game over..goodnight...

msinger · Dec 10, 2014

Maybe it's a brand new call center... with telephones... where you can talk to real people from DJI?

Prylar Bek · Dec 10, 2014

THAT IS FOR SURE. I can only relate to one thing. I was filming in Hawaii and drowned a GP Hero 3...called Cali, in 24 hours I had a NEW one. Period. Best CS of any company I have ever used (except for Apple)

MacCool · Dec 11, 2014

Prylar Bek said:
Well how come NO ONE has been able to beat GP at their game? And you think DJI can? Please, not going to happen. Check back here next year and see if DJI will be in business after GP hits the market with their drone. They got deep, deep pockets ($3B market cap!!) and they are in the PHOTOGRAPHY business. DJI only thinks they are. Different business plan. From the outset GP's posted videos were EXCELLENT, not the crap that DJI's affiliates puts out. (Octosuck films anyone?) GP 's message was clear and consistent...lifestyle photography at its best...cant beat it and can't argue their success...Stand by, going to be fun!

I didn't say that they have to beat GoPro in putting out a camera. They only have to get close (or at least closer). If DJI brings out a 4K camera that works "pretty good", and is mounted on a gimbal that's, say, at least as tough as the ZenMuse, then DJI will have a better shot at keeping the drone market because DJI already has a very sophisticated and usable drone in the Phantom 2 - GoPro has to start from scratch and it would be a big and expensive undertaking. DJI's camera on their flagship drone is the weak link. If they shore that up by coming out with a better camera than they have now, then GoPro will have a very hard time catching up. GoPro has to try to win the drone market. All DJI has to do is keep from losing it.

To succeed in this market IMHO you need a good, durable camera on a good, durable, and reliable drone, and at a reasonable price. DJI has a good drone with a mediocre camera. GoPro has a good camera, and NO drone. Big advantage to DJI if they play their cards right, and IMHO that means they have to up their game in the camera/gimbal department. They don't have to beat GoPro, they only have to get close. If they don't, GoPro will overtake them if they do decide to enter the market.

Prylar Bek · Dec 11, 2014

All true! BUT, the arrogance that DJI shows to their loyal customer base by way of their awful CS, does not bode well for either the PT or the Inspire to get the GP native mount, DJI has said so on their site. Who knows maybe they have approached GP to put their cameras on their mounts and GP rejected that. AS I have stated before, I am very happy with my PT and the quality of the video for MY needs. Yes, I would love to put my Hero4 on it but for me, I like the simplify of the system as is. Will be very interesting to hear the buzz on this at the Drone Expo saturday

MacCool · Dec 11, 2014

Prylar Bek said:
All true! BUT, the arrogance that DJI shows to their loyal customer base by way of their awful CS, does not bode well for either the PT or the Inspire to get the GP native mount, DJI has said so on their site. Who knows maybe they have approached GP to put their cameras on their mounts and GP rejected that. AS I have stated before, I am very happy with my PT and the quality of the video for MY needs. Yes, I would love to put my Hero4 on it but for me, I like the simplify of the system as is. Will be very interesting to hear the buzz on this at the Drone Expo saturday

Well yes. There are other aspects to the marketplace that could affect the game besides the actual hardware. No question that CS at GoPro is exemplary. That, plus price point, if GoPro can pull off a more cost-efficient drone, could have a significant effect on the outcome.

Another advantage to GoPro is that their camera on their drone would certainly be a device that you could slip out of the drone and slap on your helmet. That gives them a competitive advantage. I sincerely doubt that DJI could compete successfully in the helmet-cam business, which is clearly dominated, rightfully so, by GoPro.

Don't misunderstand, I'm a huge GoPro fan. If they can build a drone that's equivalent to the Phantom 2 v2.0 that I can slap one of my 3 GoPro cameras on then I'm there. But if I'm already invested in a Phantom system with a camera that's close to being as good as a GoPro then I'm much less likely make that jump from the DJI platform.

Either way, GoPro enters the market, we all benefit.

cdronefly · Dec 11, 2014

My guess is a replacement for the 3 machines...
Phantom 1
FC40
Plain Vision....

All seem to have stopped being manufactured, and DJI doesn't want to give up the low end of the business, so I see a "Phantom 1.5" or something like that. Since I am guessing, let me also speculate that it has some modular and add-on capability, so it could be one model that can be bought bare or with an improved FC40 type of cam, etc.....the entire range covering a $450-$900 price range.

That's what I, as a marketing guy, would do if I were them!

Prylar Bek · Dec 11, 2014

Not me. The low end part of the market is covered. Everyone has tons of the older P's in stock. People want the newest gadget, not the cheapest. Bet they go to Phantom 4 or something

cdronefly · Dec 11, 2014

Prylar Bek said:
Not me. The low end part of the market is covered. Everyone has tons of the older P's in stock. People want the newest gadget, not the cheapest. Bet they go to Phantom 4 or something

Could be....but are they going to leave Parrot, AEE (private labels) and Blade and future GoPro and others to the under $1000 market which has stable video?
Are they going to have a P4 when they finally perfected the P2 one month ago?

If so many older P's were available, I think DJI would be selling them on their site.....or, that they wouldn't cost more than they did last Xman (there were some $379 prices last Xmas).....

I think we may both be right.....a modular unit could address some bare bones and also some fancy upgrades.

Personally, if I were the King of Drones I'd spend a lot of time making all the parts of the P2V+ much more modular, easier to replace and fix, rugged and even upgradeable. There is something to be said (iphone and ipad are examples) of continually building upon something solid as opposed to coming in with completely different lines.

Heck, going on 3,000 employees they are likely working on ALL of the above and more.

ianwood · Dec 11, 2014

If judging solely by the volume of posts on this forum, the vision has crushed the non-vision (100,000 posts to 30,000 respectively). That tells me that DJI can get away with an OK camera, that turnkey platforms with pretty apps far outsell a platform that can stabilize a GoPro.

So, it's no surprise they put their own camera on the Inspire. The market is telling them they can provide a good enough camera and people will buy it. The next Phantom will be a vision and it will come out mid-to-late next year. It will get the hand-me-down camera from the Inspire and the Inspire will get a better camera.

They may not even bother with a non-vision Phantom next year unless they can do it cheaply. As for the P1 and FC40, they are EOL products and will disappear from the DJI website sometime next year.

That may not be what everyone here wants. Certainly not me. I will not buy the Inspire or the Vision because of the camera. But that doesn't matter. Many others will. Also, we're already on the hook. They need to attract new and naïve fish. And even for those who know, there's a difference between what they want and what they buy.