Clarification on FAA Guidelines

[Davphys]

[Moderator Edit: This post contains information that is questionable.]

There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding what is allowed or not allowed in hobby UAV operations. Some people erroneously believe that there are specific altitude statutory requirements and legal mandates for flying below 400 feet, or line of sight, etc. Even moderators have sometimes stated incorrect information authoritatively.

I wish to clarify things. There are specific GUIDELINES in place that people are encouraged to follow. They are recommended, and I encourage people to follow them. But it is false, at least in the United States, to claim that someone is breaking the LAW if they do not adhere to the recommended guidelines. I have attached the guidelines here, and they are clarified as such on the FAA website: Model Aircraft Operations

 

[taz291819]

While they are guidelines, they are there to keep you out of trouble. Fly into a controlled airspace and see what happens.

 

[Davphys]

I am not debating the the guidelines are reasonable. I am specifically stating that they are simply that - guidelines. And you cannot fly into a controlled airspace without being fined, depending on what "controlled airspace" you are flying in (see last guideline).

 

[taz291819]

I guess the easy way to look at it is that the FAA doesn't make laws, they make regulations.

 

[Air Ontario]

No matter the terminology...........
Any breach of any one of those FAA guidelines can result in criminal charges and possibly a FAA fine.

 

[ianwood]

There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding what is allowed or not allowed in hobby UAV operations.

Yes. Your post being one of them. They are not simply guidelines. AC 91-57a is not the only thing that applies to UAS. I would suggest you look at 2012 FAA Modernization Act. If you fall outside of AC 91-57a, the FAA can pretty much apply any aviation regulation that applies to full scale aircraft.

If the FAA thinks you are presenting a danger to the airspace, they will shut you down. That is their purpose. Since its creation, the FAA has been directed by Congress to make airspace safe. They are fully empowered to do so.

I guess the easy way to look at it is that the FAA doesn't make laws, they make regulations.

Regulations have the same effect as laws.

 

[taz291819]

Regulations have the same effect as laws.

I'm not debating that, simply stating to the OP that they impose regulations. Cheers!

And yeah, you don't want to piss off the FAA.

 

[Sinisalo]

Yes regulations are punishable the same as laws
"
regulations
n. rules and administrative codes issued by governmental agencies at all levels, municipal, county, state and federal. Although they are not laws, regulations have the force of law, since they are adopted under authority granted by statutes, and often include penalties for violations. One problem is that regulations are not generally included in volumes containing state statutes or federal laws but often must be obtained from the agency or located in volumes in law libraries and not widely distributed. The regulation-making process involves hearings, publication in governmental journals which supposedly give public notice, and adoption by the agency. The process is best known to industries and special interests concerned with the subject matter, but only occasionally to the general public. Federal regulations are adopted in the manner designated in the Administrative Procedure Act (A.P.A.) and states usually have similar procedures."




Read more: Legal Dictionary - Law.com

 

[Davphys]

That is absolutely false.

No matter the terminology...........
Any breach of any one of those FAA guidelines can result in criminal charges and possibly a FAA fine.

 

[Davphys]

Ian, I think I need to reiterate the obvious to you:
Of course if you are being a threat to others or posing an immediate danger to others, the FAA has the right to take action.

Having said that, GUIDELINES absolutely do NOT have the same effect as laws. Therefore, if it is RECOMMENDED that you not fly over 400ft and you fly 1000ft high- away from airports where aircraft would be traveling below that, you will not be breaking any laws.

Ian, if you don't believe me, you can ask Mike Huerta himself. I hosted a panel with him in Vegas and he was very clear about this.

Not only have I read the act you refer to, I was part of an advisory committee for that act.

With the greatest respect, you are speaking nonsense. Laws and guidelines are two very different things. If you need a lawyer to explain that to you, I can't help you.

Yes. Your post being one of them. They are not simply guidelines. AC 91-57a is not the only thing that applies to UAS. I would suggest you look at 2012 FAA Modernization Act. If you fall outside of AC 91-57a, the FAA can pretty much apply any aviation regulation that applies to full scale aircraft.

If the FAA thinks you are presenting a danger to the airspace, they will shut you down. That is their purpose. Since its creation, the FAA has been directed by Congress to make airspace safe. They are fully empowered to do so.



Regulations have the same effect as laws.

 

[Davphys]

I'm not referring to REGULATIONS.
please re-read the FAA site. They are GUIDELINES. And I stated as such.

And GUIDELINES are absolutely NOT the same as regulations or laws.


It is amazing the amount of BS put out from people who can't simply read a statement saying just that- these are "guidelines" and we "recommend" you follow them.

"Shall" and "should" are very different terms legally. They have very different bearings.

Yes regulations are punishable the same as laws
"
regulations
n. rules and administrative codes issued by governmental agencies at all levels, municipal, county, state and federal. Although they are not laws, regulations have the force of law, since they are adopted under authority granted by statutes, and often include penalties for violations. One problem is that regulations are not generally included in volumes containing state statutes or federal laws but often must be obtained from the agency or located in volumes in law libraries and not widely distributed. The regulation-making process involves hearings, publication in governmental journals which supposedly give public notice, and adoption by the agency. The process is best known to industries and special interests concerned with the subject matter, but only occasionally to the general public. Federal regulations are adopted in the manner designated in the Administrative Procedure Act (A.P.A.) and states usually have similar procedures."




Read more: Legal Dictionary - Law.com

 

[Jerry T.]

The Constitution of the US established the Legislative Branch of the Government as that branch that could make laws. Unfortunately our government has been corrupted by a massive system of administrations. These administrations have evolved so that now they assume the duties of all three branches of our government. They make the laws (which they call regulations) they become the Judicial branch when they determine guilt without a trial and they become the executive branch when they fine or incarcerate you for violation of their regulations.
This is not how our government was supposed to work, but just look around at how powerful these administrative agencies have become.


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[ianwood]

Having said that, GUIDELINES absolutely do NOT have the same effect as laws. Therefore, if it is RECOMMENDED that you not fly over 400ft and you fly 1000ft high- away from airports where aircraft would be traveling below that, you will not be breaking any laws.

Is that why they have fined people for flying over 400ft, flying in class B airspace? If you break AC 91-57A and the FAA finds out about, expect at minimum a warning. If they think it's particularly egregious, they will do much more. Or at least, that's what Huerta told me after I beat him on Jeopardy.