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CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – Mike

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mike Mas, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. Mike Mas

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    Be advised if you are using the Naza V2- GPS your machine will take-off with no prior warning - which could result in an accident or serious injury.

    Problem: DJi’s new “Non-Signal” firmware which monitors the receiver for a “No Signal” status them automatically engages failsafe has no priority to lock out this feature while on the ground.

    Event: Pilot engages and starts the motors – if the pilot does not move the cyclic yaw or throttle sticks for a short period of time - the Naza instantly enters “fail-Safe” mode and in a few seconds goes to full throttle in an attempt to reach failsafe altitude therefore causing the pilot to think the machine is in a fly-away state.

    My Event: I set the machine on the runway spooled up the motors, after a few seconds, I walked over to my FPV monitor to check the readout battery voltage - as I began to walk back to the machine, the multi blasted off the ground – As I held low throttle in hopes of reducing the accent - I switched to failsafe with no results - next I flipped to ATTI to dump the GPS and my machine went to low throttle tumbled out of the sky, unknowingly, my 40+ years of reflex instantly added throttle in time to prevent the motors from shutting down and it nearly hit my truck and Linda as it sped back up to the ground.

    I recommend that anyone using this Naza be aware of this error and take precautions when on the ground and spooling up the motors – remember if your in GPS mode you’ll have to move to ATTI to dump the fail-safe routine already started. DJI needs to address his problem with a update to prevent fail-safe engagement while the machine is on the ground.

    Fly Safe!

    Mike Mas

    Bench test of error video attached


    http://youtu.be/03VRozck72c
     
  2. DeweyAXD

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Hi Mike

    Are you sure you have your NAZA settings and or you TX setup right here?

    Powering on the motors followed by no throttle input for more than 5 seconds should result in the motors shutting off. What setting did you use for the NAZA assistant under 'Cut Off Type'? There are 2 options - Immediate or Intellegent.

    If it isn't that I wonder if your have your DX8 set (or calibrated) so there is a small percentage of throttle at centre stick. Again the principle is that if your start up and give it even 1% of throttle the NAZA says 'ahhhh ok I'm under control here' and hence does not power off the motors.

    Either way it shouldn't go into Fail Safe at all unless there is a loss of signal or a switch is programmed. Really odd.

    I agree that the way you have it configured causes that risk but that is not a standard setup compared to any 'out of the box' RTF systems.

    EDIT - P.S your video link is not correct. Correct link is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03VRozck72c (put a youtube bracket round this and it will embed the video on here).

    EDIT EDIT - Just a punt but is the 3 way switch used for GPS/Atti etc set to have 'Fail Safe' on the third position? Could be that the rates set are every so slightly too close to the Fail Safe activation and hence when you warm up your motors you are not in fact in Atti mode, you are in Fail safe.... this would explain the motors not stopping at all and of course the fail safe activation when the IMU is ready. Just a thought.
     
  3. Mike Mas

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Thanks for the reply - it has nothing to do with the assistant or the type of transmitter - The Naza does not see input from the pilot for 30 seconds and therefore goes into failsafe - the problem is the machine is already on the ground. If you're not expecting it you'll swear you have afly-a way

    Thanks

    Mike
     
  4. DeweyAXD

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Really confused on this now Mike.

    This is what should happens on my NAZA birds (just tried this on my Phantom and XuGong10).... took a vid of the Phantom (crap resolution but still).

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPe1AncCbL4[/youtube]


    Atti mode selected (yellow light to tell me this, two red as no GPS), motors turned on but no input on throttle.... auto shut off occurs. Tried again, same result. Third time motors turned on and a tiny throttle input selected... motors stay on (but it didn't go into fail safe at all... for like 2 mins of waiting around to see if it did). This is how I think all NAZA's should be functioning (guys feel free to state your experiances here).

    Also your status light puzzles me a bit. It is flashing double yellow at the start of your video. In atti mode you should get Yellow followed by either greens (if you were outside with sattelite) or reds if inside.
    Double yellow suggests it hasn't got a TX signal. That makes sense because the reaction to it from the NAZA is for the RTH to kick in but makes no sense that you can turn the motors off with the TX (which is clearly talking to the RX).

    Sorry not meaning to shoot your theory down on this at all... just something I've never seen personally and I'm pretty accustomed to the NAZA and its 'mood swings' by now.

    Next the motors when fired up with no input at all don't shut off... that isn't normal behaviour either.
     
  5. Mike Mas

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    You're confusing the motor shut down to failsafe - your Naza id different than the Naza V2 GPS - the problem happens in either GPS or ATTI modes - Like I said DJI designed into the new system so when there is no input to the Naza for 30 seconds it automatically goes into the "FailSafe" mode did you listen to the video and hear the motors go full throttle by themselves? By the way the colors are a bit different mine acquired all the satellites in the grage and was flashing in the ATTI mode.

    Thanks
     
  6. ElGuano

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    recent naza-m v1 are identical to naza-m v2, and share the same firmware and software. Failsafe and receiver advanced protection don't trigger on null input.
     
  7. DeweyAXD

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    I understand the difference between Fail Safe and Motor Auto Shutdown and know the NAZA v2 setup very well. As per the NAZA v2 Manual:

    According to your video you are clearly under 100m and your Aileron (A) Pitch (E) and Rudder (R) are all in there mid point and hence the argument of a) is not met. Granted the A/E/R/T have not changed for 20 seconds but it shouldn't kick in because your left stick is not at the mid point. Suggest to me that the NAZA is thinking one of your control inputs is not at midpoint and hence thinks you are flying.

    Page 24 of the manual: double flash yellow in Atti = sticks not at centre
     
  8. DeweyAXD

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    +1 - I can let both my Phantom (NAZA v1 but on an upgrade board so technically a v2) and my XuGong10 with NAZA v2 GPS idle on the ground at low throttle forever without taking off. That is because A/E/R are at midpoint (while T can be at whatever you like). Suggest it could simply be as simple as a TX calibration required there. Hope thats of help.
     
  9. Mike Mas

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Thanks - as long as I move any of the sticks within a 30 sec period of time it will not go into failsafe - only when the transmitter is left untouched for 30 sec will it enter failsafe.
     
  10. ElGuano

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    I think it's quite clear what is happening. As dewey statsd, your tx isn't calibrated right, so when centered your sticks are not sending 0 to the Naza, they are sending 1, 2, -1, -10 or whatever is the magnitude of the miscalibration (it will be minor but *constant*). Your Naza on boot up see this and is flashing double-yellow to indicate non-zero stick input. Because your sticks are non-zero and otherwise untouched (constant), that triggers RAP as the quad thinks it is in flight with an interfering rf signal. If you calibrate your sticks, the problem will magically go away.
     
  11. DeweyAXD

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Yep exactly my thoughts.... well worth highlighting though and glad you posted this Mike. If nothing else it could proved that an ever so slightly out of calibration TX could cause a nasty incident and potentially a face full of props.

    This is where the Motor Shut Off is, IMO, of key importance.... if you fire up your Motors and it doesn't auto shut off due to no input then it is an indicator that a non 0 input is being sent. Until I saw this I will openly admit that I didn't know a double flash light meant 'not centered' and I'm sure I've noticed that before (albeit probably just before taking off).

    Really handy if you can try a calibration and keep us posted of the results (video as per your last one would be even better).
     
  12. Mike Mas

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    The same thing happens on a single or double flash regardless of the cause, DJI still needs to fix the problem to prevent a protection mode designed for flying from occurring on the ground and possibley injuring someone - any way you look at it, its dangerous.

    Bottom line is "Anything" that can cause a machine to lift off into flight with no input from the pilot is broken and needs to be fixed!
     
  13. LeoS

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    @Mike: Have you tried recalibrating your tx and retesting to confirm that your diagnoses of the problem was incorrect?
     
  14. ElGuano

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Hi Mike,

    I just tested both cases. It does not happen on single flash for me.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwnzi-z0RZM[/youtube]

    I test GPS and ATTI modes, with sticks at zero, and non-zero. You'll see that RAP only activates when the NAZA thinks sticks are non-zero. Whether it's an improper calibration or non-standard end-points I don't know. But when the quad is configured correctly, it's much more likely that there is no problem that needs fixing.
     
  15. LeoS

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Yet another 'Flyaway' due to user error!

    This whole thread is proof that user's misdiagnosis is a leading cause of Phantom flyaways, however experienced you are :geek: (actually being experienced and overconfident in any fields is a big issue).
     
  16. rilot

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Just to be sure, I tested my F550 (Naza V2 GPS) and my Phantom last night. Both do exactly the same as what Dewey showed in his video.

    Your sticks aren't calibrated or there is some other configuration issue. Please don't spread FUD.
     
  17. DeweyAXD

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Hi Mike - If that is the case still then my advice is to do a single flash video which needs to be shown here and link to it sent to your DJI dealer and DJI support. If it does it on a sinlge flash then its not right.
    ElGuano's test shows how it is meant to work. Currently you have proved the system works as it should do under its defined parameters.
    No bad thing as it highlights the need for 'dead sticks' at all times. Don't forget this could also be caused by non centred trim buttons being knocked even on a well calibrated TX.
    Hope you manage to get it fixed.
     
  18. Mike Mas

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Hey guys - been doing this heli thing for a while now - rest assured its happening and a potential danger problem.

    My machine does the same exact thing on a single flash as it does on two - Regardless - no matter how you twist it or what the problem is - the helicopter is; "TAKING OFF BY ITSELF" and going into a flight mode which can result in serious injury.

    Bottom line is; the RAP feature needs to be disabled when the machine is on the ground - PERIOD!

    This is a safety hazard and if you do a search on multi forums you'll see that it has happened to others since DJI incorporated this feature into the last firmware.
     
  19. ElGuano

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Mike, you keep repeating this, but at this point it's unsubstantiated and unreproduceable. Perhaps it's something wrong with your particular NAZA. But not with everyone else's. What is the resistance to putting up a new video showing it happening on single-flashes, which would indicate a real problem? You've mentioned multiple times now that it happens, and we need to see that to confirm the issue. After all, you went to the trouble of making the first video and cross-posting the message to multiple forums; if it's that important to you, take the tiny extra step to convince us reasonable skeptics who are willing to listen.

    I know your history and I respect that, but on this matter, it's really kind of time to "put up or shut up." :) Nobody else can reproduce what happened to you, why do you keep trying to say there's an epidemic without addressing the refuting evidence?
     
  20. Mike Mas

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    Re: CAUTION - DJI NAZA V2 GPS Unexpected Take-Off Hazard – M

    Hey EL - Look I already seen a post where you made an idiot out of yourself regarding this same matter where another guy was having the same problem while in hover.

    Read My lips -

    Regardless - no matter how you twist it or what the problem is - the helicopter is; "TAKING OFF BY ITSELF" and going into a flight mode which can result in serious injury.

    Bottom line is; the RAP feature needs to be disabled when the machine is on the ground - PERIOD!