Catastrophic crash tonight - Phantom 3 Pro destroyed!!

[III% Streve]

A CSC cant spin off a prop unless it was not installed improperly. People have been performing CSCs daily for hundreds of thousands of flights and its never been documented. A motor locking up might could cause it, but I'm guessing that all 4 still spin freely. The logs would show a power variation if a CSC or motor/esc anomaly happened. People ALWAYS jump to the CSC/compass error narrative! ALWAYS! In the end.. its VERY rare that even the compass was at fault.

 

[Australis5]

CSC was ruled out based on stick inputs...I was saying ESC (not CSC) or motor failure. There was drag on the motor post-crash. So, not sure if it was a result of impact or mechanical failure pre-crash.

As a side note. That was TWO P3's ago. The replacement unit I received DID have a compass error that deemed it defective. I'm on my 3rd and hopefully last one. Fluke, Bad luck? Probably. But through no fault of my own, I've had 2 defective units.

 

[GadgetGuy]

The Active Braking System of the P3 makes it very important that you tighten down props more so than any other previous phantom, despite the fact that they are threaded in a counter rotational manner. With that, it's pretty disappointing that DJI decided to switch over to plastic threaded props over aluminum. Questionable decision form DJI

You are mistaken. The plastic threaded P3 props should only be hand tightened, per the manual, and per blade strike (who works in DJI support, and is a veteran member of this forum). Using the tool, which is included only to remove broken jammed props after a crash, to tighten them further, will strip the nylon threads and lead to premature failure. That could actually lead to a prop coming off, where it would not after hand tightening only.

 

[Australis5]

I'm curious on the take of those doing it longer than I have. Can we define hand tightening? I go totally tool-less, but spin the prop on until it stops, then hold the motor with my fingers, and give it an extra snug. Is that too much? What are you guys doing?

 

[GadgetGuy]

I'm curious on the take of those doing it longer than I have. Can we define hand tightening? I go totally tool-less, but spin the prop on until it stops, then hold the motor with my fingers, and give it an extra snug. Is that too much? What are you guys doing?

I'll let others chime in, but my understanding is you should be fine, as long as it isn't so snug that it might strip the fragile nylon threads from overtightening. In all candor, I used the tool once, before I knew any better, and have never removed the props since, in over 100 flights. When I find it necessary to remove them, I will be replacing all four, and following the hand tightening only method.

 

[JerEl]

...All preflight checks, full battery, safe to fly, auto takeoff, go up to about 250' over my neighborhood, and the P3 suddenly starts violently spinning, controls unresponsive, makes a 250' plummet right in the middle of the street in front of our house, and its in about 100+ pieces....

Very interesting thread with a good outcome, i.e. you got a free replacement.

That you found a missing prop on the roof of your neighbor determines the cause of the crash and that you swear that you hand tightened the props per the manual doesn't explain what caused the prop to come off in the first place. That, we'll probably never know although if the "parts" are returned to DJI they may attempt to determine that cause but experience has shown they never explain these failures to the consumers.

But at least you got a replacement and maybe your luck will change on this 2nd replacement so I hope you have safe and happy flying experiences from now on.

 

[John Wright]

As to 6+ weeks for repair, that is only after they enter it into their system. My P2V+ sat on their receiving dock (or somewhere else) for over 3 weeks before entered into the system (that was after the week it took to get it to them after the 4 days trying to get an RMA#), then they say it will 5-6 weeks before it hits their tech's bench. Then another week shipping back to me. They will probably have it close to 3 months before you are flying again. And you won't know if they try to charge you or not until it hits their tech's bench. Not the greatest service on the planet...... LOL

If, indeed you believe that the props counter rotated as a result of dynamic braking (and it certainly could be the case based on numerous stories out of the Inspire camp) then in the future I would suggest three things before flying:

1. tighten up the props REALLY tight. You can even use the supplied wrench if you want. With the new composite hubs, you will feel them tightening as you go.

2. Once they are on good and tight, do not remove them except for required maintenance.

3. Reduce dynamic braking percentage to 70% in the Pilot App. I have found it is more than sufficient to do the job

I looked and could not find the dynamic braking adjustment. What section is it in?

 

[marg2]

Just Wondering in pic of pieces you retrieved there is the gimbal protector, did you have it on that day? it will discharge and burn lot of thing trying to fight the protector, I know you solved the issue with dji.
Just that protector in the pic got my attention
Happy flying

 

[marg2]

 

[AgentOrange2015]

After looking at the picture on response #109 I noticed the Gimble and Camera Protector laying beside everything.
I know this may sound absurd to experienced pilots, but has anything thought to tell the new guys and new pilots that the Clear Plastic Protector is for protecting the camera and gimble only when transporting the P3 anywhere, home, to a new fight site, where ever, inside the travel case, etc. It is not meant for use during flight operation or anytime you turn on the P3 for any reason.

Some of us have left the Protector on and turned on the P3 forgetting to remove it before hand, but by no means should anyone fly or attempt to fly with it in place. How it effects the P3's flight operation if left in place I have not a clue but I do not want to be the dummy to find out.

 

[GadgetGuy]

After looking at the picture on response #109 I noticed the Gimble and Camera Protector laying beside everything.
I know this may sound absurd to experienced pilots, but has anything thought to tell the new guys and new pilots that the Clear Plastic Protector is for protecting the camera and gimble only when transporting the P3 anywhere, home, to a new fight site, where ever, inside the travel case, etc. It is not meant for use during flight operation or anytime you turn on the P3 for any reason.

Some of us have left the Protector on and turned on the P3 forgetting to remove it before hand, but by no means should anyone fly or attempt to fly with it in place. How it effects the P3's flight operation if left in place I have not a clue but I do not want to be the dummy to find out.

It should immediately generate a gimbal error in the app, when the gimbal can't move during warm up. It won't affect flight at all, but it essentially turns the camera into FPV Mode, locking the camera in place, and also could potentially harm the gimbal motor. Never a good idea to fly with it, as it can also come off and get lost!

 

[omgitzrick]

He already said the protector was not in place during the flight. He put it back on while collecting the pieces.


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[GadgetGuy]

He already said the protector was not in place during the flight. He put it back on while collecting the pieces.


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

I understand. I was just clarifying for the prior poster that flying with the protector on generates error messages that make it difficult to do, but if you did anyway, it also won't affect flight or cause a crash.

 

[omgitzrick]

Yep, my response was more aimed at that poster also


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[GadgetGuy]

Yep, my response was more aimed at that poster also


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

Cool!

 

[eaglegoaltender]

I can understand completely the use of nylon-metal threading for the props since nylon is already the locking mechanism and helps with reducing vibration at the props and very likely any other vibration present would not loosen the nylon nut/prop.

An example of this is a product called "Loctite" which is used to secure metal to metal threads (nuts to bolts). The solvents used in Loctite are basically a polymer that coats and acts much like a nylon fastener - hence a tighter fit.

BTW - Loctite (red, blue or green) is not for use on nylon threads as it will weaken or destroy them. IMO I would prefer the nylon to metal threading as is present now on the props Vs metal to metal threading.

If you feel a prop fell off during flight (and it certainly looks that way from all the evidence to including the found prop on a roof-top) - it is possible there was an issue with the prop (stress fracture - not visible from the outside but rather inside the threaded area) that would feel tight when installed - yet expand during flight and the force from rotation.

Root Cause Failure Analysis (RCFA) - lets hope we all get a definitive answer to this catastrophic event - since, replacing the Phantom is not the only solution sought.

Pleased to hear all worked out in the end as to replacement on your Phantom Australis5 - let's hope #3 will be your lucky number! All in all I would say "count your blessings" it crashed where it did - it could have been a lot worse (as you already mentioned). Happy and SAFE flying.

 

[Tom Nola]

DattaGroover - best of luck to you. I don't look forward to that process.

Upon further inspection this morning, it looks like one of the props came off!. the other 3 props were either sheared off on impact or badly damaged. The 4th rotor had no prop. I looked all over for it around the crash site to no avail. I always give these a nice snug tightening after spinning them on, so I know it had nothing to do with how I put them on (I even double checked in my pre-flight). After reading a bit more on how this could potentially happen, sounds like maybe a motor failure either locking up, changing direction or something similar could spin off a prop?? Sounds rare, but not sure what else it could be.

Since I just received this 3 days ago, bought through Amazon, using my Amex, I am almost inclined to send it back and get a replacement unit this way, after hearing some horror stories about DJI warranty, and the fact that it could take 6+ weeks (unacceptable IMO). I feel like I would be on trial or something - after spending $1300 for a defective unit, to wait weeks, to only have them subjectively determine whether or not to replace it?? Any thoughts?

Here are all of the pics: Dropbox - Link not found

Hy

I can't watch the dropbox file..... can you reply it?

 

[alexdds]

All these random crashes with no reasons to them are making me nervous! I know I won't be upgrading to the latest firmware once I receive mine. Sorry for your loss and hopefully DJI pulls through! From what I've seen, it certainly looks like something failed on the unit and not pilot error.

Always do IMU calibration after firmware update. electromagnetic interferrence could cause this as well

 

[DattaGroover]

I'm curious on the take of those doing it longer than I have. Can we define hand tightening? I go totally tool-less, but spin the prop on until it stops, then hold the motor with my fingers, and give it an extra snug. Is that too much? What are you guys doing?

They "should" replace it, for sure. Whether they will or not is anyone's guess. I had a catastrophic crash in the Netherlands last week with my P2, which did a power dive into a Haarlem canal, and am just about to start the warranty process. Good luck to us both.

Just realized I never updated this. DJI replaced my P2 and the gimbal, though the process took over 2 months. The GoPro was a total loss (it sheared off when it hit the water). 3DR includes loss of GoPro, not DJI. Overall, though, I am happy they replaced my P2.

 

[buford]

I don't believe that anyone can predict DJI's opinion. I am still flying the old firmware 1.1.9 because I have not had any issues with it and there are numerous issues with 1.2.6-- some of them are showing up on this forum.

Really sorry for this misfortune-- hope that DJI will do right and get you another to replace this one. Were you having any issues on 1.1.9?

I don't believe that anyone can predict DJI's opinion. I am still flying the old firmware 1.1.9 because I have not had any issues with it and there are numerous issues with 1.2.6-- some of them are showing up on this forum.

Really sorry for this misfortune-- hope that DJI will do right and get you another to replace this one. Were you having any issues on 1.1.9?

Is there a way to back up on the updates, go backwards in essence, to a version like 1.1.9? I got mine in sept, and did the updates because I thought they were required. That's what my screen lead me to believe anyway. I am between 1.1.9 and the latest, and would like to go back to 1.1.9, as I had absolutely no trouble until all these friggin weekly(it seems like it) updates.