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Carolina Panthers stadium flyover = Police involved

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TheOperator, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. TheOperator

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    Hey I've been viewing this forum for the few months that I've owned my P2V+ but this is my first post. Local news states that somebody flew over the Panthers NFL stadium.

    http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/loc...-flown-over-panthers-game/ng9Mx/?nmredir=true

    Another report said the pilot never flew above 400ft and I just checked and the stadium is outside of the 5-mile radius from the Charlotte airport.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. ProfessorStein

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    Sounds like they're just trying to figure out charges that'll stick. It's not uncommon for the news media to get their facts wrong, though. Wouldn't put too much stock in what they state about the airport.
     
  3. witold

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    From what I understand, a lot of events like stadium games and firework shows have a temporary no fly zone in effect. It means no one can fly anything without explicit permission to do so. This is probably the case here.

    Here is more info on Class B airspace;
     
  4. Morgon

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    Bingo. NOTAM 9/5151 states that regular and post-season games of NFL, MLB, NCAA, and a couple car racing events have a 3 mile no-fly-zone.

    However, now that I typed that out.. notice it says "regular or post-season game". Since the NFL is in pre-season, I wonder if that'll help him.
     
  5. ScottH

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    Yes the TFRs are not in effect during pre season games. Could never understand that. The stadiums are just as packed. Also they are in effect not sooner than an hour before game time usually.

    Also regarding class B, you enter the big debate as to whether the RC model is an aircraft. TFR language on the other hand, at least for VIP TFRs, specifically mentions model aircraft.

    I suggest always checking this site before launching, http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr2/list.html. Read the description on one of the VIP (presidential) TFRs. Bust one of those and you are in for it.
     
  6. seminole360

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    I've never seen a legal description of where the measurement is taken from specifically. But if measured from the closest runway, or the airport property, the stadium is technically within the five mile radius of the airport. I've seen all the maps that measure from the center of the airport, but I assumed that was due to simplicity of batch loading lat/longs of airports. To make that measure from the runway or property line of hundreds of airports is just too much work.
     
  7. ScottH

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    Every airport has a reference lat/long. WRT TFR's they usually also reference a lat/long or navaid radial and distance. That's what you use. But for the purpose of Class B, etc those areas are depicted.
     
  8. BaldEagle

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    Why on earth would someone fly their Phantom over a stadium with potentially lots of people in it? Aren't they asking for trouble? I understand that there may be rules or interpretations that might allow it, but I'm also thinking about being a professional in the stadium or a fan - I generally don't sign up to go to a game thinking something might fall on my head and seriously injure me. If I'm at a baseball game, yes, I'm on the lookout for balls into the park. If I'm at a motor speedway, I know the risk of flying auto parts in a crash - I KNOW these things. But is the public currently expecting the possibility of something falling on their head from someone flying an UAV over them when they sit in the stands? How many UAV's are allowed to fly over a stadium? Do they need to coordinate with one another? Who coordinates this? What about fireworks displays? Who will be sure that the fireworks often used at stadiums does not hit the UAV?

    I think the Golden Rule needs to be considered here. I don't want someone flying something over my head unless it's "part of the show", unless it's organized as part of the experience. Otherwise, I'm afraid that something will happen. If someone gets killed or loses an eye or is neurologically impaired - it would be a disaster. Fan or professional athlete.

    My 2c's.
     
  9. seminole360

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    It seems lack of common sense and consideration for others are still common traits.
     
  10. ScottH

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    Yep. Or how about for the second time in recent memory we are thinking it's ok for small children to play around with an Uzi.
     
  11. rgc2005

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    As a retired Police Officer I can confidently say that Federal regulations aside anyone can be arrested/detained/cited for their state's version of Disorderly Conduct, Menacing, Wanton Endangerment and Interfering With Government Operations. Those charges are what the LEO community refers to as "Catch Alls" and in most states warrant a discretionary arrests if committed in the Officer's presence. These statutes are very broadly written and have very liberal PC guidelines which makes them extremely powerful tools. That is why pilots should always be polite and compliant as possible when dealing with local and state police. Get the wrong officer and you will go to jail.
    BTW, Federal Agents have much much much narrower arrest discretion and always seek out local LEO support to enforce local statutes/ordinances.
     
  12. rgc2005

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    What about the remote controlled blimps, T-shirt cannons, football into the stands, Lambeau Leaps, etc............
    Have you ever been to an Eagles game?..... Wearing a hard hat is highly recommended. The fans throw anything not tied down.
    Seriously there is much more danger from the tethered tracking cameras which fail usually once or twice a year. Those things are as big as a player.
    Not to mention drunks and disgruntled fans or getting mugged in the parking lots.
    There is danger everywhere...
     
  13. fixedwing

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    Regardless of airspace and NOTAM restrictions, I am aware that in the UK both UAV and aircraft pilots have restrictions on overflying large gatherings of people. I assume the US has similar rules.

    I am pretty sure in the UK the very vague statement below would cover flying over a full stadium:

    "Article 138 of the ANO 2009 states that 'a person shall not recklessly or negligently cause or permit an aircraft to endanger any person or property'. This is equally applicable to all manned and unmanned aircraft."
     
  14. ProfessorStein

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    Except that all those things typically fall under the stadium's insurance and liability coverage, rgc, if someone is injured.

    A personal UAV is unlikely to have that same coverage.

    On top of which, if the t-shirt cannon ends up injuring someone, everyone knows who is at fault. If a Phantom drops from the sky, the pilot could be anywhere and is unlikely to be identified unless they come forward of their own volition.

    And are the teathered cameras really that big? The only ones I've seen were about the size of a shoebox and probably weighed about the same as a Phantom. But... there's a reason they use the teathered cams instead of flying drones, huh. Tells you something.
     
  15. CarlJ

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    I know I'm beating a dead horse, and it's very doubtful that anyone couldn't predict my reaction, but I have a moral aversion every time I read one of these stories. Inevitably someone will come along and want to defend these types of actions, and that just makes me feel badly about that member. Ultimately I find these topics divisive for the community as a whole because as a general rule we're able to reach consensus on a variety of topics...but not this.
     
  16. BaldEagle

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    Yes - there is danger, everywhere. What I am not so sure about is whether someone who is flying their UAV over a stadium is really considering the potential dangers of their behavior. What assurance do I have, as a fan or player? Shouldn't I have SOME asssurance? When they fire that t-shirt cannon, I short of figure they have thought a bit about it. It is a known part of the experience. They don't fire the canon at players or during the actual game. There are rules. The blimps have specific times they fly and certain altitudes. It's worked out. But someone who flies their UAV and a firework rocket hits it and the flaming debris comes crashing into the crowd... that is NOT something the pilot of the UAV may think about. They are not part of the show. And at stadiums, part of the experience is already things flying around in the airspace above the stadium. Noncoordinated UAV's from private citizens should not be part of that airspace.
     
  17. witold

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    This really needs a huge +1.

    People don't seem to realize 1) how much leeway cops have, and 2) there is a right and wrong place to argue your legal case and it is not at the scene.

    "You catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar" is an expression that a lot of RC geeks would be well to learn and practice. Instead of rules being bent against you, rules can be bent in your favor. But not if you ask like a know-it-all.
     
  18. TheOperator

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    Meaning they're less likely to come arrest you than to send the local PD to make the arrest?
     
  19. CarlJ

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    Meaning they bring the locals along just in case of incidental jackasses getting in their way. I'm not really a fan of cops, but I'm a fan of what they do, so I tend to let them do it. It's worked well for 62 years now.
     
  20. pierrelogic

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    There are countless examples of stadium flyovers available on youtube.

    This one is one of my favorites although I personally would never try this or anything like it. Between 4 1/2 minutes through the end of 6 minutes that drone is really up there. :shock:

    http://youtu.be/siafOuJwVzs