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Can a filter break a Zenmuse?

Discussion in 'Zenmuse H3-2D GoPro Gimbal' started by scooter339, May 8, 2014.

  1. scooter339

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    I'm having an issue with DJI through my dealer, The Drone Pros. My gimbal is defective, limp as a biscuit, less than one month old.

    It did work when I installed it for a couple of flights.

    So It's defective in my view, the dealer says make a video and will let DJI decide.

    DJI sez the filter makes the Zenmuse HD-2D heavier thereby breaking the Gimbal.

    Can this be true? I've seen videos with the Phantom 2 flying with the filter.
     
  2. rilot

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    Any filter on the GoPro will make the camera front heavy. This puts stress on the vertical axis motor, eventually causing it to burn out.
     
  3. ElGuano

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    Moved to H3-2D forum.
     
  4. scooter339

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    Rllot - Thanks, I guess I'm out $360.00

    I've read a lot of posts, watched a lot of videos and this is the first I've heard of this.

    I hope others will learn from my experience.
     
  5. ElGuano

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    The Zenmuse is one of the lightest gimbals out there, and the 3D probably THE lightest GoPro 3-axis gimbal. There are a lot of reports about how small imbalances from filters and add-on lenses put excess stress on the motors and burn them out.

    Some of the H3-3D guys are going to extreme lengths to add ND filters onto their lenses. They install the filter, and the glue/tape nickels, quarters and paperclips to the back to counterbalance the weight. :O

    A lot are reporting success, but that kind of modding just doesn't sit well with me personally...
     
  6. wkf94025

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    ElGuano,

    I have a filter and counterweight on my H3-3D. What else would you propose if the jello level is unacceptable?

    Have we actually seen posts of users whose motor(s) have burnt out due to use of a filter, or just lots of speculation that it will cause motor life to be reduced? I have seen plenty of the latter, and none of the former. I am not saying it shouldn't be a concern, I am just asking if there are in fact known cases of early motor burnout due to use of filter [and counterbalance].

    Kelly
     
  7. ElGuano

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    I won't presume to second guess the effectiveness achieved by the guys who have been fighting this issue from day 1; the ND solution just isn't my favorite, as it's not addressing the root cause of the problem.

    If an H3-2D doesn't jello, and an H3-3D does, unless there's something in the motor mechanics actively adding to the vibration (I have a Tarot with variable microvibrations from the motor, so I've dealt with this extensively), it should purely be a matter of weight, rigidity and isolation. There SHOULD be a vibration-reduction solution that doesn't involve slowing the capture down to the point where the rolling shutter becomes moot. Shrug. I'll get an H3-3D when the standalone version comes out, and maybe I'll eat my words.

    There are a quite a few firsthand reports with the H3-2D (including the OP, it seems?). Both with the maxon motors and the newer CN ones. The 3D is probably too new at this point.
     
  8. panhygrous pantler

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    ...and some of the H3-3D guys are just using a light ND filter with no counterweights and doing just fine.

    OP, how did you/your dealer/DJI determine that your filter was the cause of the problem?
     
  9. wkf94025

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    I agree. Unfortunately I don't have a PhD in vibration isolation, access to the full HW and FW innards of the H3-3D, or the time to tackle this issue at its root cause. I.e., "hobby". :(

    As to the OP, I would posit that any gimbal that failed that early was going to fail with or without a filter on it, assuming the filter wasn't 500g.

    Kelly
     
  10. scooter339

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    I agree. Unfortunately I don't have a PhD in vibration isolation, access to the full HW and FW innards of the H3-3D, or the time to tackle this issue at its root cause. I.e., "hobby". :(

    As to the OP, I would posit that any gimbal that failed that early was going to fail with or without a filter on it, assuming the filter wasn't 500g.

    Kelly[/quote]

    I was using a GoPro polarizer. I don't know if it weighed 500g but it is heavy. DJI told me it burned out because of the wieght. They won't budge on providing me with a replacement. I only flew with the lens twice with the polarizer.

    So that's a fact of my life.
     
  11. Crazykaktus

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    Well it does make sense... The only way to get the jello effect out of the footage is by adding a filter. I live in South Africa and I struggeled to get a 27mm ND filter... So I made my own... Used a coke light bottle cap trimmed out a round hole on the inside... Used Auto tinting lamination for the filter, u get about 4 different shades so you can make 4 different ones for cheap... if they get lost or damaged you can just make extra.....and bobs my uncle... Works like a dream.

    And the filter weighs only 0.003 grams thats probably less than a US penny. So that can in no way damage the gimbal

    /Users/digitalemo/Desktop/IMG_20140523_072448.jpg
     
  12. patspahr9

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    It certainly would be appreciated if DJI would issue guidance on this topic of filters on the GoPro with Zenmuse. I'm just getting into this platform to add aerials to cinema graphic projects. My concern is less about jello and simply about image quality. ND filters are common tools to all cinematographers, as shooting in very bright conditions overdrives most of today's digital sensors and the neutral density filter is one tool commonly used to work with that. I've also got polarizing filters for the go pro and there are conditions where you just want to use them. Finally, one of the first blogs I read when researching quads was a guy who crash-landed on his first flight and shattered his camera lens. Professionals routinely cover their glass with UV filters when no specific effect is required simply because it keeps the elements off the glass. I have clear (not really UV) protective filters for my GoPro as well. I have written to DJI and I'll let you know if they write me back.
    Here is my current GoPro filter kit:
    GoPro PROTECTIVE LENS COVER FOR HERO3
    Polar Pro POLARZR FILTR f/ACTION SPORTS-HERO3/3+
    Polar Pro "Frame" Glass Neutral Density Filter for GoPro HERO3 and HERO3+
     
  13. patspahr9

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    REPLY FROM DJI:

    Storeagent03 (DJI Innovations)
    May 26 14:32

    Dear Patric,
    Thank you for your reply. The takeoff weight for Phantom2 is less than 1300g. The weight of gimbal excluded camera is 168g. Gopro Hero 3 weighs 76g totally. Therefore the whole thing weighs 1000+168+76=1244g. There is still some space for your filter.
     
  14. patspahr9

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    After about 4 "back-and-forth" emails to DJI, I finally got this response:
    Storeagent03 (DJI Innovations)
    May 26 17:34

    Dear Pat,
    As checked with our technical personnel, you are correct that filters will make the gimbal out of balance. Therefore, it is not OK to add filters to gopro camera.
    ---
     
  15. The Editor

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    Interesting that DJI take this line. So, by their own admission by implication their 'hibernation mode' is totally useless!

    The whole point of hibernation mode is to PROTECT the gimbal should undue stress be put on the motors. Adding additional weight by adding a filter WILL put stress on the motors as it unbalances the gimbal. However, DJI say that hibernation mode should kick in if any extraneous forces apply outside of the gimbals' working parameters!

    Opps - sorry DJI, you can't have it both ways. Either your hibernation mode is a protection and it works. (in which case adding a filter would cause the gimbal to hibernate and so NOT burn out the motors)
    Or.... your hibernation mode is a piece of **** and not fit for purpose.

    Which one is it?
     
  16. Uncle Meat

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    Right out of the Zenmuse owners manual:

    Warning & Disclaimer

    No adjusting or amending is allowed to the H3-2D!!!
    Before use, make sure to mount the camera to gimbal first, and then mount the
    gimbal to aircraft. After this, you can power on the gimbal.

    H3-2D is specialized for Camera and Lens before it leaves the factory. Please mount your camera to H3-2D when
    get it. No adjusting or amending is allowed to H3-2D. Do not modify or add any other component/device (such as
    filter, lens hood, etc.) to the camera; make sure to use the original battery; otherwise it may end up with worse
    performance or even internal malfunction.