Campaign for the replacement of all P3A /Ps with old motors and shells

[bobmyers]

A couple of things in the phantom3 pro/adv I've noticed while doing some reading. I have the phantom 3 advance and yep, I crashed it. I went out over the lake I live on, only about 30 feet above the water and strait out. I didn't notice that after I went a ways out that i had rotated it slightly. Keep in mind it was a ways out and starting to get dark. So, i hit reverse thinking it,s coming starit back towards me only for it to be coming back towards shore. It hit a tree brach and crashed into a yard. Again I was only about 30 feet high. i went to retrieve it and noticed it had broken one of the new carbon fiber props. When i got back to my house I saw that the camera gimble had broken off. I have heard from others that have crashed and the gimble broke as well. Not only that but because of the design of the main board, ie cables and cable connectors very close to the skin, means that if you crash you are almost guaranteed to need a main board as well due to any flexing under the stresses of a crash. At first I thought I only needed a new camera. Installed a new one and still wouldn't fly(no signal)...opened up the shell and noticed a cable plug had broken off the board. So now i'm waiting for a new board..Sheesh, I would have thought the main board would have been more isolated/protected in the event of a crash but it's not. Wondering if that's intentional, as the camera and main board are the two most expensive items, both at 400.00 a pop...

This quad nor any other quad isn't designed to be completely protected from crash damage. You shouldn't expect a part or element to be protected in a crash. That does not make sense. IMHO.. if you crash and want to repair- get ready to spend some dollars.

 

[Meta4]

Meta4 your inability to articulate your argument without being insulting undermines your credentials. Leave them alone - it's not pretty reading. ....
Now how about that poll.............

I'm not going over it all again. It's been put down clearly a dozen times in this ridiculous thread and if people read and took in the info here, the thread would only be two pages long.
If you still can't get it you never will.
As for another forum poll, that would achieve nothing of any validity.

Now, I'm about to something much more enjoyable - go fly my Phantom and see if I can grab some memorable images.

 

[AlexSP]

If we're going to make up stats then my guess is that maybe 1 in 1000 units has a shell cracking issue. I like those odds given I probably have more than a 1 in 100 chance of totaling my P3P at some point in the next year.

If I wanted to eliminate all risk then I would choose a less risky hobby, like stamp collecting

I'm with you here. DJI and Parrot brought some really advanced and sophisticated RC aircrafts to the masses thanks to ease+safety of use and affordability. That equals fun, but it has a price and not only in cash.

I'm not saying it's cheap, of course it's not. But the kind and level of hobby experience provided by the Phantom line (especially the P3) was not only unimaginable but rather expensive - I mean A LOT MORE expensive - not long ago. I've seen and owned some amazing RC toys but when I factor in everything the P3 still impresses me quite a lot I must admit.

RC newcomers look at the P3, take it up and expect it to be trouble-free and long lasting as a DVD or LED TV, but that's not realistic. Smartphones do a lot these days, but they get mega-buck R&D (well above DJI I'm sure) and still fail, get bugs and give a lot of headache. High tech is like that, the improvement process never ends. Hobby demands a learning process, and it's really fun even the throwbacks mean a new lesson learned.

 

[Albert D]

I built rockets and planes when I was a kid...kind of looking forward to rebuilding my P3P. No cracks yet after 77 major flights, 14 total hours and 100 miles. I guess I'll have to wait a while (or until it crashes).

 

[Panther6834]

Since everyone else seems to have already their "two cents worth" (or more), I'll add mine. I don't have "hundreds of flights", or "hundreds of miles"; I don't have "dozens of hours"; and I don't have previous experience with earlier Phantoms. However, I do have a few dozen flights in with my P3P, I've shot a few videos (and I'm working on others) for my church, and I've experimented using several different devices (Nexus 7 (2013) LTE, Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition), Galaxy S5, iPad Mini 2 LTE (Verizon), & Asus ZenPad S 8.0). Throughout all of this, I haven't discovered any cracks in my P3s shell...and I not only check after every flight, but I also check before my first flight anytime I'm packing everything to go flying/filming. I would have to agree with the assessment that, percentage-wise, the cracking shells is a minor issue, probably related to a particular batch of plastic. Of course, I should mention that, many years ago, I worked in the plastic industry, and am familiar with almost every type of plastic, from ABS & polystyrene, to LDPE & HDPE; from Lexan & Plexiglass, to Tyvek & Mylar. The point is, anytime plastic is "created", if any ingredients ara off, it can easily affect the stability, and thus the quality, of the plastic.

 

[Daninho]

I'm gunna join the haters I'm afraid. I do statistical analysis for work and the data (polls) was gathered in such a way that is completely meaningless. Honestly chuck it in the bin it's worth zip.

Products improve over time, fact of life, grow up and get on with it.
Cars will likely have THOUSANDS of tweaks and adjustments during the time they are manufactured. Do you really believe ever customer should be able to return their car for a new one every time they make an improvement?

Finally this sort of petition WILL NEVER WORK! And good thing to as any company that buckled to this would go bust quickly.

Thats actually not true, a car model is not changed often because you have to do new spare parts, new machines etc.. There is a large rat tail behind this when you change something. They change things when a new model generation appears or during a facelift. When a car company realize they made a mistake with essential parts of the car they will start a recall. I also thing a car cant be compared with a electronical gadget. We are talking about essential product flaws here, not some minor design improvements.

 

[BigAl07]

If you have any hard data with contradicts my beliefs I'd be happy to say I'm wrong - maybe we could have a poll on this forum to see how it compares to the one on DJI? Then we can have a clearer understanding of the true magnitude of the concern. That's got to be a good thing, right?
....
Now how about that poll.............

You seem to be very intelligent but you're still not getting the problem with the poll... here... DJI or otherwise. The vast majority of people are here to either solve an existing problem they have or help others with a problem. Problems are "funneled" into this and all the other forums so it would/will be impossible to get an accurate and reliable sample group on a forum like this. If you think otherwise you are only kidding yourself unfortunately.

I'm with you here. DJI and Parrot brought some really advanced and sophisticated RC aircrafts to the masses thanks to ease+safety of use and affordability. That equals fun, but it has a price and not only in cash.

I'm not saying it's cheap, of course it's not. But the kind and level of hobby experience provided by the Phantom line (especially the P3) was not only unimaginable but rather expensive - I mean A LOT MORE expensive - not long ago. I've seen and owned some amazing RC toys but when I factor in everything the P3 still impresses me quite a lot I must admit.

RC newcomers look at the P3, take it up and expect it to be trouble-free and long lasting as a DVD or LED TV, but that's not realistic. Smartphones do a lot these days, but they get mega-buck R&D (well above DJI I'm sure) and still fail, get bugs and give a lot of headache. High tech is like that, the improvement process never ends. Hobby demands a learning process, and it's really fun even the throwbacks mean a new lesson learned.

Very well said. I can hear years of "if you fly em you crash em" experience in your post above. Now a days many newbies to the hobby get upset because they've spent "X# of dollars" and it doesn't perform exactly how they think it should. Imagine spending that amount of money AND a few hundred hours building and finishing an aircraft only to have it crash (and sometimes burn) in just a few minutes of flight. I was flying an 8' aircraft spinning a 22" prop and had an ignition module go out on the maiden flight. Worse case scenario (low, slow, and unable to get back to the runway) and I lost a massive aircraft with hours and hours of hard work in no more than 45 seconds. Even though the module was determined to be defective we chalked it up as part of the hobby, rebuilt, and flew for several years under a new module (that I bought). That's just part of this hobby. When it goes up into the air the odds of it being damaged are vastly against the odds of a safe and soft landing.

 

[BigAl07]

Thats actually not true, a car model is not changed often because you have to do new spare parts, new machines etc.

That's incorrect. I worked in an automotive component environment for 15 years. Small changes in components happen almost continuously. Many times it's an exact replica with a small change in composition or something minute. The new parts (some may call upgraded) are simply worked into the process once the remaining inventory is consumed. It's just product improvement and it can come from any component manufacturer through out the supply chain. These aren't failure issues but simply improvements and sometimes the change is only because a change of supplier and no performance change at all.

 

[AlexSP]

... Imagine spending that amount of money AND a few hundred hours building and finishing an aircraft only to have it crash (and sometimes burn) in just a few minutes of flight. I was flying an 8' aircraft spinning a 22" prop and had an ignition module go out on the maiden flight..

So true, this process was slow and painful and costly but in all honesty I don't regret a single minute. When I was 15 back in the 80's I started building small rockets, and I remember it took me over 170 trials to get ONE flying perfectly and landing smoothly with a chute. I burned my fingers, scared the neighbours and blew my small wallet countless times. But after that launch my success rate increased exponentially and I could make 60% of them fly on the 1st attempt. 6 in 10 might not sound like much but it was like turning a key suddenly and BANG - I cloud launch rockets in any form. So far (2 months in), my P3 has been a 10 out of 10 for success so bear with me, I can't allow myself to even come close to complain and I'm far, far from starting feeling frustrated with it!

I'm not kidding, every single model had to be built from scratch (literally: we had to make the drawings) then every part had to be cut, glued and painted because nothing was readily available to purchase at stores. The same had to be done with airplanes, small motorised cars, then other models like copters and all that came since.

It was frustrating for the most part, extremely time and energy consuming, you slowly advanced one step at a time and then a huge setback and you were back to zero and had to start over again. But every success was so big I remember crying quite often with project friends. It was cool. The main lesson learned was not to give up, to persevere, to learn and keep trying and improving. Now I order a quad, it comes ready and after a 30 min. charge I can go anywhere with GPS lock, filming in 4K for 20 minutes 10 times straight. It's almost miraculous to me, really.

So please don't get me wrong but I will say it again: yeah the Phantom has flaws and DJI needs to step up to all this, I agree and I feel the pain of you guys suffering setbacks. It sucks for sure. But it is not a toy, rather a seriously sophisticated aircraft that does amazing things with very, very little trouble and high precision. If you think these cracks and bugs are huge, fine, to each one his/her own. It is a pain, but I'm telling all these stories to show that this kind of hobby/experience doesn't ever come free of pain or totally trouble free. Even in our super-tech consumer-ready era.

To me it is one hell of a device I could never, ever, dream of see or play with in my lifetime (I'm 45) but I'm so glad I do now that I won't give it up if I can. I'll keep an eye out for improvements and DJI moves, but I'll get into it to see what I can do to make it even better. I have no DJI powers, no 3D printer or anything sophisticated but sometimes the simple solutions works best (it's a hobby mantra btw).

Sorry for the long post... Happy flights and best of luck to everyone!

 

[BigAl07]

So true, this process was slow and painful and costly but in all honesty I don't regret a single minute. When I was 15 back in the 80's I started building small rockets, and I remember it took me over 170 trials to get ONE flying perfectly and landing smoothly with a chute. I burned my fingers, scared the neighbours and blew my small wallet countless times. But after that launch my success rate increased exponentially and I could make 60% of them fly on the 1st attempt. 6 in 10 might not sound like much but it was like turning a key suddenly and BANG - I cloud launch rockets in any form. So far (2 months in), my P3 has been a 10 out of 10 for success so bear with me, I can't allow myself to even come close to complain and I'm far, far from starting feeling frustrated with it!.......

I felt your pains reading that LOL! I did the same thing... with Rockets (loved multistage units) then gliders and then R/C aircraft. It was literally my 13th airplane before I had my first take-off and landing that did not require any repairs. That's 13 aircraft built and destroyed before I had my first full success.

 

[Ayrtonginster]

You seem to be very intelligent but you're still not getting the problem with the poll... here... DJI or otherwise. The vast majority of people are here to either solve an existing problem they have or help others with a problem. Problems are "funneled" into this and all the other forums so it would/will be impossible to get an accurate and reliable sample group on a forum like this. If you think otherwise you are only kidding yourself unfortunately.



Very well said. I can hear years of "if you fly em you crash em" experience in your post above. Now a days many newbies to the hobby get upset because they've spent "X# of dollars" and it doesn't perform exactly how they think it should. Imagine spending that amount of money AND a few hundred hours building and finishing an aircraft only to have it crash (and sometimes burn) in just a few minutes of flight. I was flying an 8' aircraft spinning a 22" prop and had an ignition module go out on the maiden flight. Worse case scenario (low, slow, and unable to get back to the runway) and I lost a massive aircraft with hours and hours of hard work in no more than 45 seconds. Even though the module was determined to be defective we chalked it up as part of the hobby, rebuilt, and flew for several years under a new module (that I bought). That's just part of this hobby. When it goes up into the air the odds of it being damaged are vastly against the odds of a safe and soft landing.

Don't want to fall out about it fella, as I've said before I LOVE my phantom. It's the most fun I've had out of the bedroom for a long time. Just want folks to be objective and if they can come up with proof more substantial than I've found I'll review.

My motivation was never to put anyone off buying this amazing machine, it was for DJI to see the chatter and push on with improvements.

My personal view is this problem is a big one and I hope it gets sorted soon. I would never talk anyone out of buying a phantom - how could I when they bring me so much pleasure?! Would just be nice if you were able to see my motivation is to promote positive change, but never brand change. If I thought that I would be annoying the hell out of others on another forum.

Lastly big respect to phantom pilots for not deleting the thread. We may not always see eye to eye but together we can scale (or video) mountains.

Happy flyin!

 

[AlexSP]

I felt your pains reading that LOL! I did the same thing... with Rockets (loved multistage units) then gliders and then R/C aircraft. It was literally my 13th airplane before I had my first take-off and landing that did not require any repairs. That's 13 aircraft built and destroyed before I had my first full success.

I know exactly what you mean And hey... Let's not forget, there was no internet, Google, forums or anything to search, discuss, get templates or help, etc. No Amazon, no customer service either, finding and buying and mailing parts was crazy too

It was cool. But I'm not living in the past, that was then and I'm really enjoying this P3 thing now too!

 

[alokbhargava]

I am convinced that shells are cracking due to bad electro mechanical design. DJI has come out with new motor and shell design as a solution but won't accept that new motors are to take care of the issues. They would rather say its an production improvement over earlier design to meet increasing demand.

Question is why are all shell not cracking? They would crack if one gets aggressive in flying the bird as all experts do. Reality is that most of the users are inexperienced fliers and are careful in flying and don't generate excessive bird movements and thus are safe. Quick stick movements used by experts generate excessive torques and if the design is improper will crack the shells on the weak points.

 

[Albert D]

At one point, there was speculation here that the cracks were related to over torqued screws. When I got my P3P, the first thing I did was remove the screws to install prop guards. Later I removed the prop guards and fly without. Saw no signs of cracking, but installed strong backs as a precaution. Still no cracks, going on 80 flights.

My question is, how many people who had those cracks never removed the screws before first flight? How many people who had these cracks did remove or check torque on the screws?

 

[N017RW]

Jeeze everybody thinks DJI is hiding something.

You don't redesign a motor because plastic is cracking.
You could very easily 'de-tune' the ESC and reduce performance if that was the cause.

 

[AlexSP]

IMHO and from what I've seen and read around there are way too many variables to point an exact cause for the cracks, at least from our standpoint. Maybe DJI knows what's wrong but for us consumers it's a classic case of "unknowns unknowns".

Some crack early, some later and some never crack. Some tighten the screws, others don't and both crack - or don't. Some fly aggressive, others light, some in the wind and some crash. Some use reinforcements and others don't, some have old motors and some have new, some land on the ground and some grab the bird... and both suffer cracks... sooner or later... or don't!

And so on.

Early on I wasn't aware of this problem. I flew for weeks in every way, doing manoeuvres messing with control parameters and all. I even crashed lightly against a wall flying ATTI in strong wind (broke the props and scuffed the arms a bit). A few rough landings too. It didn't crack.

Then I became aware and messed with the screws both ways, started flying more calmly and be more careful, and after lots more flying it is still perfect, 2 months in. A friend bought a P3A at about the same time and had 2 cracks after 1 month (at the time I found out about the issue). He never crashed and flew a lot less than me. Go figure. There are 100s of similar cases everywhere.

My guess is DJI's design and engineering department is heavy onto this burning some candles and a definitive solution should come soon. Also IMHO it is either a design flaw (likely if a major percentage of units fail, which we don't know for sure - maybe DJI knows...); or a production problem (if failure rate and occurrence is random and displaced among units/batches, which we also can't tell with an acceptable degree of certainty).

So, for me the solution for the moment is to keep flying. Until something happens. Or not

 

[Btktwood]

That's incorrect. I worked in an automotive component environment for 15 years. Small changes in components happen almost continuously. Many times it's an exact replica with a small change in composition or something minute. The new parts (some may call upgraded) are simply worked into the process once the remaining inventory is consumed. It's just product improvement and it can come from any component manufacturer through out the supply chain. These aren't failure issues but simply improvements and sometimes the change is only because a change of supplier and no performance change at all.

Exactly!

 

[Daninho]

That's incorrect. I worked in an automotive component environment for 15 years. Small changes in components happen almost continuously. Many times it's an exact replica with a small change in composition or something minute. The new parts (some may call upgraded) are simply worked into the process once the remaining inventory is consumed. It's just product improvement and it can come from any component manufacturer through out the supply chain. These aren't failure issues but simply improvements and sometimes the change is only because a change of supplier and no performance change at all.

Thats not really true, small changes happen only to slightly improve a already working system, in the case of the P3 we have a desig flaw which lead to a defect in the future. And again the phantom is not a car, its an electronical gadget. Most ppl with the older model will get problems sooner or later cause of the cracks. There is a reason they use different motors now, the old system got way to hot. U can almost burn your fingers when you fly it in the summertime compared to a P2. The P1 was "cold" as well. They clearly misdesigned it and realized that those motors and probably the higher voltage caused more heat and wear to the system.