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BEWARE of possible BLACK BOX being implemented by DJI

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision Discussion' started by gfredrone, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. gfredrone

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    Under pressure from authorities a flight data recorder has probably been implemented in v3.0 so if you do cause an accident with your P2V or P2V+ they can pull your flight data off the vehicle. I seriously wouldn't be surprised if this were true or is coming for the P2V+.
     
  2. rfernandez

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    Not surprised at all, would not throw anything pass them!!
     
  3. Tahoe Ed

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    Not true. It requires a iOSD to record flight data. Don't get paranoid guys. There was no pressure on DJI to limit flights near airports. They did this proactively. I met a guy at NAB that is part of the Drone Testing Center in Las Vegas. They are interested in what DJI did in its firmware to protect users from invading commercial/private air space. Pilots are very concerned. I fly at a park that is about a quarter of a mile from the airport. I could fly at or above the landing aircraft however I did not do so. I would prefer that users control themselves, but unfortunately that is a wish not a reality.
     
  4. KG4MXV

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    Actually I am not apposed to that.
    People that fly irresponsibly need to be held accountable.

    I am really tired of all the yahoos , yabo's ect ect ruining the hobby.

    If you have nothing to hide I see no problem with this.
    In all actuality this to be a really good thing,
    Take for instance,
    You're flying and you encountered heavy interference to your control signal, the black box should show this,
    And will attest to your innocence of the accident,
    And also will also show if you're flying like a total idiot and lost control the craft causing the incident.
     
  5. Buk

    Buk

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    Ed,

    Please educate me. What what little I know, the NAZA passes flight parameters to the iOSD. Couldn't the NAZA store that information as part of a Black Box function? Why is the iOSD needed for Black Box function? Thanks.


    Original poster,

    I would like to read the article describing the Phantom Black Box. What is the link to this article? Thanks.
     
  6. JimDE

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    Ed, I agree, I see many Utube vids seeing just how high they can go and other things that for this activity can be viewed negatively and end up bad for everyone.

    My issue is not the limits but the downgraded flight experience these upgrades are causing for current P2V users. Like unstable hovering, difficulty getting home lock, lower preview resolution, tanking equipment because of a update introduction issue with a server....... inshore decreasing the customers experience using their products and increasing the risk of fly aways or crashes.

    But, you are right there are some who will push limits and laws today that for everyones protection may require some programming intervention. Heck my highest flight so far was 245' straight above my backyard... my longest distance around 100 yards out because I just do not trust the product and the risk of fly aways. $1200 flying away to oblivion is a significant loss. If they want to improve something or regulate something take this fly away issue off the realm of possibilities. If a DJI upgrade did that I would jump on it... Fix the known problems like camera focus, fly aways, even the tendency to want to tip forward on landings ... this should be their first point of focus and if they feel the need to regulate flight while doing this then go for it. I see the reverse trend in making the whole user experience worse and less reliable since mid March
     
  7. OI Photography

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    The iOSD mkII (not the iOSD mini) has the memory needed to store the data, and is already capable of logging flight parameters. To do it with the NAZA would require additional hardware.
     
  8. jimdenburg

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    I actually would like to see this in some capacity...perhaps it would shed light on some of the unexplained crashes and help troubleshoot technical problems with the aircraft.
     
  9. Buk

    Buk

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    Thanks,
    Is the mkII typically used with a Vision or Vision Plus? The implication, at least to me, of the original post was that the v3 upgrade may have enabled or could enable the Black Box function in the V and V+.

    I was beginning to believe the NAZA had a memory partition for storage, like where the No-Fly database was stored and this memory partition could serve as the Black Box storing historical flight parameters. (Memory partition may not be the correct descriptor, but seemed to fit)
     
  10. OI Photography

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    No, the iOSD mkII needs a canbus port which the Vision does not have (not sure about the V+, but I believe the same is true).

    Right now even uploaded Groundstation missions have to be stored on the DataLink module installed as part of that setup, so while the NAZA has enough storage space for firmware, it's small and has to be flashed..can't be written to while flying.
     
  11. Buk

    Buk

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    The clouds parted, the sun appeared and knowledge imparted:

    Thank you, that sentence fragment did it.
     
  12. dkatz42

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    Nope. All you need is a GPS receiver (check), altimeter (check), timestamps (free with GPS, check), and some flash (check). It's just a small matter of firmware. There's obviously a bunch of flash in there for storing the firmware, so there's no technical reason why some of it couldn't be used for storing position data. Less than 20 bytes of flash would store a position sample (lat/long/altitude/time) with extremely high accuracy, so a spare meg could hold on the order of 50,000 samples, which is thirteen hours' worth at one second sample intervals.

    Having said that, other than the unsupported rumor ("has probably been implemented") there doesn't appear to be any evidence one way or another about this. Of course, your car is doing this, and your phone is doing this (worse, since it is sending your position data in real time over the radio), so the whole idea of privacy is passé at this point.
     
  13. OI Photography

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    So it IS possible to flash that memory while in flight?

    I knew the data was available through the existing components, and I didn't think it was really the amount of memory that limited it so much as the type. Same as with your phone, car, etc (including the iOSD mkII)...the firmware memory is separate from the data storage memory.
     
  14. CRankin

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    I just ordered a Flytrex last week. Maybe I'll wait to see if this actually happens before installing it.

    Like many, I'm a big believer in safety. I like this idea. It could be useful in many situations. For instance... let's say that you were using the P2V on a photo shoot, and it started acting crazy and flew through somebody's window. You (or your business insurance) would wind up paying for the damage - but if the data recorder showed a malfunction of some sort that could be attributed to a manufacturing defect, you could probably recover what you paid out for the damage and the repairs to your equipment from DJI. (Good luck suing them, though, as they don't seem responsive in either email or phone calls when you have even a simple question.)

    One last thought... Though I can't think of a time that I'd care about disabling this feature offhand, I'd still like to have the ability to disable it in firmware (and I'd also like to see this with the new "Fly Safe" - aka "Jailbird" - feature). This is primarily a philosophical issue to me, as I don't believe that companies should be able to force people to accept "features" they don't want to use on products that they own.
     
  15. jadebox

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    Probably not. And, flash memory can only be written to a limited number of times. So, it's not an appropriate medium for storing flight data.

    Anyway, I'm not sure how much time should be spent trying to figure out how something might have been implemented when there's really no evidence that it has been implemented.

    -- Roger
     
  16. OI Photography

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    A-ha!

    and

    A-ha!
     
  17. PropsPete

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    I was wondering why not use the app to save flight log? It receives flight telemetry already so it could just save all the information on phone.
     
  18. gfredrone

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    And we have a winner!
     
  19. OI Photography

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    Really? When it would only work on one version of the Phantom and nothing else...? Doesn't seem like that would be a very effective measure.
     
  20. tizzl10

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    has anybody successfully ssh'd into the phantom vision itself? i can ssh into my iphone and view the dji app files, but i dont know the credentials to get into the phantom. going to work on it some more this weekend. im interested to see what this thing is logging.