Beginning of the end in New Zealand

[RedHotPoker]

Well do you have to ask each individual land and property owner, before every flight, or could you compose a request form, and a list of those neighbors and have them sign off on the document only once?

That would save a lot of time and hassle, from the need of requesting permission for every battery flown...
The hassles we must endure. for a simple hobby...

RedHotPoker

 

[cshaw]

Now that, I would fight in a heartbeat.
As this clearly says, NO MORE RC aircraft!
If the law is specifying quad/drones, then all other types of RC aircraft are permitted.
Which, to me, should be totally illegal.

Get off your lazy butt and start screaming!

The problem is that there was very little about this in the news or otherwise before the new rules were announced so we didn't have much chance to fight it. There were a few vague statements from academics about privacy etc but no comment or input from users that I ever saw. the initial rules that were put in place were sensible and reasonable The standard 400ft, LOS, daylight etc. UAVs are not that common here yet but I think someone has decided to preempt the whole thing and kill it before it gets started.

 

[cshaw]

The rapid rise of incidents involving UAV use prompted this quick regulation change in NZ. NZ has seen drone incidents go from 1 in 2011 to 27 last year and 53 already this year.

Those irresponsible owners have screwed over what are likely hundreds of responsible pilots.

The thing is, so many people argue about the FAA guidelines being guidelines and not regulations. So they push and push and they post video after video of out of LOS and high altitude operation. They don't give a rats *** if their bragging affects others in the future because it's all about THEM and RIGHT NOW.

I even had one owner tell me that since the FAA has to go through Congress, any changes would take years to implement. So basically, he said screw it, he will fly as he wishes until forced not to.

Those same irresponsible operators will be among the first to complain about this hobby being over-regulated once those changes hit the books. Never admitting their own habits led to those changes.

Does anyone know if a central database is kept either by the government or, by another entity, that tracks actual drone incidents here in the U.S.? I think it would be interesting, also, if NZ has a database which gives a brief description of each of the 53 drone incidents mentioned in the above link.

There is no database that I know of. Of the 53 events this year, about 3 have hit the papers. One was about a guy who stomped a Phantom because he thought he was doing the world a favor. He was fined and order to pay for the Phantom at $10 per week forever. Good luck to the owner if he hopes to ever see his money.

There was one guy cautioned for flying after dark in a downtown location and another seen flying near a stadium. I guess the other "events" were more along the lines of someone reporting seeing a drone flying somewhere.

 

[BlackHawk388]

There is no database that I know of. Of the 53 events this year, about 3 have hit the papers. One was about a guy who stomped a Phantom because he thought he was doing the world a favor. He was fined and order to pay for the Phantom at $10 per week forever. Good luck to the owner if he hopes to ever see his money.

There was one guy cautioned for flying after dark in a downtown location and another seen flying near a stadium. I guess the other "events" were more along the lines of someone reporting seeing a drone flying somewhere.

This is what concerns me. The few can influence the many through manipulation of facts, whether those facts are real or not. Too many people play off the fears of the masses and unfortunately, the masses rarely need such fact to form an opinion.

Without a database where people are held responsible for their statements via publicly available data, NOT saying everyone who complains should have their information published as this would prevent true events from being reported, such data being scrutinized by publicly elected officials should enough people in a given "incident zone" reply with their information, then this hobby is completely at the whims of those who are ignorant and derisive based upon fear alone.

 

[cshaw]

And the general public don't give a **** about a small minority of hobbyists who just want a flying camera for a different view of the world.
How much do you think my Vision 2+ will be worth now that no one can fly it?

 

[steveeds]

I'd say there are times you can use appropriate language and this is one of them, all seems appropriate in your post above cshaw, pretty much all true and correct with the right amount of emphasis's applied
Couldn't have said it any better really, however it's a road I'm not going down personally, the stress would put me in the ground.

 

[BlackHawk388]

....

Taking out your angst on the moderators here, like the many forums I've moderated, will do just one thing.

Show you've got little respect for others. So how should anyone believe you have respect for this hobby? These moderators work for FREE. They volunteer their time. People like you who insist on calling them out for following the guidelines they've been given aren't doing a damned thing to help this hobby or the obstacles we face.

You're just being a mean spirited person.

Cannily enough, you're acting JUST like those people you call irresponsible. You're just too ignorant to realize the duplicity and hypocrisy of your statements.

*sigh*

 

[cshaw]

I am very clear about my statements and have already messaged the moderator with an apology. I am actually quite angry right now as I have a right to be under the circumstances. Nothing I have said here is directed at the moderators or any individual members of this forum. You can read whatever you like into my post and how you interpret things is entirely up to you. I have no control over your misreading of my posts.

 

[BlackHawk388]

I am very clear about my statements and have already messaged the moderator with an apology. I am actually quite angry right now as I have a right to be under the circumstances. Nothing I have said here is directed at the moderators or any individual members of this forum. You can read whatever you like into my post and how you interpret things is entirely up to you. I have no control over your misreading of my posts.

Sir, no misinterpretations are needed. You made your thoughts, and directed your anger, quite clearly.

As you stated.

Since you haven't been able to make this determination on your own, the Staff here isn't responsible for the laws a given Country imposes.

 

[cshaw]

Just to be perfectly clear. My frustration is directly solely at New Zealand's lawmakers. Not sure how this was interpreted otherwise.

 

[BlackHawk388]

Just to be perfectly clear. My frustration is directly solely at New Zealand's lawmakers. Not sure how this was interpreted otherwise.

Perhaps it was your outright attack on moderators. Which shows you clearly do not have the ability, at this time, to correctly reference your anger given your situation.

As I said, the staff here hasn't the capability, and likely not the desire, to construct laws that are prohibitive to our hobby.

You ****** up. Just apologize, learn from it and then, move on. No excuses needed.

 

[cshaw]

"I know I am not allowed to say **** on this board and the moderator will remove it" This is an outright attack on moderators??? I was acknowledging that I expected them to remove my swear words.

You seem to be jumping to wild conclusions. Or are you are deliberately trying to start an argument for your own amusement. Either way you can carry it on by yourself.

 

[cshaw]

I don't believe it's that relaxed. With the large increase in reported incidents this year, if they continue to increase I doubt the CAA will just sit back and say "Oh well, we tried"

They'll likely get many calls to say a drone flew over their yard without permission from disgruntled neighbours. The only thing in our favour at this stage is that most people won't be aware of these new restrictions.

It's not good. I think they've made a bad call with regards to the ability to not being able to fly in open public places without permission. What a nightmare asking for permission from a council; and unless they proactively sign-post areas as suggested, each person will need to do so for every area they wish to fly in. Ludicrous.

And no doubt with councils there will be a fee attached somewhere.

 

[BlackHawk388]

" ...
You seem to be jumping to wild conclusions. Or are you are deliberately trying to start an argument for your own amusement. Either way you can carry it on by yourself.

Evidently, in your current state of anger, you're unable to view the words you wrote with any objectivity. Much less how those words may be viewed by others. So I will quote your post and take the time to deconstruct it in RED.

.. {You are allowed to say all manner of words on this board as long as such language isn't directed towards a member of this board in a discouraging manner. Calling over reaching legislation by the ****** up manner in which it is enacted doesn't seem to specifically violate the forum rules.} ... {This is a direct and obvious insult to how the moderators are expected to perform their functions on this forum. Not to mention an outright attack on the your perceptions of the rules for this forum.You are pissed, and quite rightfully so I might add, about how your government has over reached in producing legislation that impacts, greatly, your enjoyment of this hobby. However, I will ONCE again point out to you how you've incorrectly addressed the staff here with your anger instead of the entities who're truly responsible for your angst. Much less your fellow countrymen.}

When one works for FREE on a forum such as this, the words you've written here are bound to cause some consternation amongst them. As staff, THEY will likely not be allowed to express such displeasure over your comments. Since I'm not staff, I'll be plain. You come across as blaming the staff as much as you hold your fellows and government to your anger standards. This is NOT cool. And if THAT simple fact yet escapes you, then I am done with trying to express this to you in a format you might comprehend.

 

[steveeds]

"And no doubt with councils there will be a fee attached somewhere."

And there it is, and soon elsewhere, we all certainly know where regulation and compliance lead
For myself I will continue and if in court I'll debate courts enjoy debates and give us leeway to do it, of course

I heard on the news two nights ago we can fly up to the airport "fence" whatever that is but can not go above 150 ft or was it 50 ft, I couldn't believe what I was hearing plus firmware won't let this happen, but I mean what were they thinking.

Edit: I just saw words in red above, this is a little frightening
but no caps so relaxed again

 

[cshaw]

My apologies Mr Blackhawk. You clearly just don't understand the Kiwi sense of humor.
"Go for it Mod, you are doing a great job here ;-) " was intended to mean " I understand that I have used language here that may not be acceptable but I know you will remove it so go for it."

I expected my post to read something like " But I don't give a (DELETED BY MODERATOR) any more. Not sarcastic or angry or insulting at all .
Mind you I would be a bit more upset about this if the actual moderators had expressed some offense. I'm sure they can speak for themselves.

This exchange has also taught me how to change the colour of text in posts so that is a bonus.

Are we friends now?

 

[cshaw]

"And no doubt with councils there will be a fee attached somewhere."

And there it is, and soon elsewhere, we all certainly know where regulation and compliance lead
For myself I will continue and if in court I'll debate courts enjoy debates and give us leeway to do it, of course

I heard on the news two nights ago we can fly up to the airport "fence" whatever that is but can not go above 150 ft or was it 50 ft, I couldn't believe what I was hearing plus firmware won't let this happen, but I mean what were they thinking.

Edit: I just saw words in red above, this is a little frightening
but no caps so relaxed again

Words in RED! for some reason Americans seem quite inclined to see everything as an attack of some sort. Just don't get the Kiwi humour I suppose. And they can't spell humour properly either.

Awaiting a response now to the wild generalisation above.

 

[snerd]

I apologize if I offended anyone. I have little patience for those who brazenly disregard others or guidelines designed to make a safe environment for all to enjoy.
The news of what just happened to our hobby in NZ didn't help.

That said, I will be a bit more careful with my posts.
Ianwood is right. Constructive debate has to be maintained.

Yep, good post. I also apologize if I offended anyone. I'm dropping out of any further debate and/or worry about the morons ruining our hobby. I'm going flying!

 

[steveeds]

I laugh in your general direction

I think I'll go multicolored from now on, it looks good and reminds me of the lights we may not have anymore.

 

[ScottyT]

And no doubt with councils there will be a fee attached somewhere.

Indeed. And Councils aren't open on the weekends or holidays so hobbyists now need to plan well ahead. Gone will be the days of waking up on a fine day and deciding you'll go for a fly somewhere new, or rocking up to a new location where you won't necessarily know who tends to the otherwise safe-to-fly land. By the time you track down the proprietor you'll not likely have much time left in the day to fly.

Will a phonecall for permission be sufficient, or will we need to get something formal in writing which means a visit to the specific office? So many unknowns and probable loops hobbyists will need to jump through in order to enjoy a simple flight. It's all very well having permission for a nearby spot, but that can get very boring quite quickly.

N.Z officially has the most restrictive laws to date. Bless.

p.s. I get your frustration and thought it was pretty obvious that you were expecting to be moderated, not that you were venting at the moderators.