Be careful of helicopters even when below 400 feet

[storrowdrive]

You are asking the wrong question. What you should be asking is:

• How did I allow it to happen that I was at the same altitude and in close proximity to a manned aircraft?
• Why did I not have awareness for the approaching helicopter?
• Why did I not immediately descend as fast possible to avoid a potentially dangerous situation?
• Do I understand that it is my responsibility to stay clear of manned aircraft irregardless of where they are flying or what they are doing?

*Because I thought they had to stay above 400 feet so that by me obeying the height restriction I was at a safe height somewhere below the helicopter

*I was aware of the approaching helicopter. Unless a person has severe hearing loss it is impossible not too considering how low and loud it was. I did not lower the drone because I thought the helicopter had to stay above 400 feet

*The potential of a dangerous situation did not cross my mind because I assumed he was well above 400 feet because I thought they had to stay above 400 feet.

*Yes I understand that and it is why I was flying below 400 feet

Now I know 400 feet is meaningless when helicopters are in the air. I thought in a previous post in this thread I acknowledged I was in the wrong but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

 

[Meta4]

The thread title isn't correct.
The helicopter pilot never saw your Phantom and wasn't aware of its presence.
It simply flew by.

 

[N017RW]

Yea, same fallacy displayed when folks see a drone and assume it's spying on THEM.

 

[storrowdrive]

The title was an attempt at humor. I know he didn't see me.

 

[Air Ontario]

An good example for the common sense reason behind flight school requirement.

There is an old saying...."Ignorance is bliss".
We've all experienced that at some point in time.

 

[storrowdrive]

The thread title isn't correct.
The helicopter pilot never saw your Phantom and wasn't aware of its presence.
It simply flew by.

I changed the title.

 

[ianwood]

Honest answers. Appreciated.

No matter what, we own the responsibility of avoiding manned aircraft. Avoid areas where they operate. Fly where helicopters won't as much as possible. Be extremely vigilant. If one appears, descend as fast as possible to get clear.

 

[Duncan Campney]

I have a small private helipad within the 5 mile range of my house. I called the guy who manages it shortly after getting my P3 and his feeling was that a ~3 lb drone would not pose much of a risk to a helicopter flying at low speeds. He said that the rotors can chop down moderate sized trees without damage. Further, striking the windshield wouldn't do much to the chopper at low speeds like they'd be flying on approach/takeoff from the helipad. He gave me blanket permission to fly anywhere in his helipad's airspace, just pay attention and if I hear a chopper, get out of the way.

It sounds like the guy I spoke to (who is a helicopter pilot, btw) underestimated the risks by quite a bit. The good news is that they approach that pad at a pretty steep angle, and don't fly below 500 ft until landing.

After talking to the manager of the helipad near me and getting his permission I'm comfortable flying in the outer regions of that pad's 5 mile radius. I'm more concerned with other helicopters that might come zooming into the airspace where I'm flying at less than 400'.

 

[TheTanger]

So, if you're legally deaf then it sounds like (pun intended) you should be prohibited from flying a drone anywhere near 400' since you won't hear the chopper (or a low flying plane) coming, right?

 

[Duncan Campney]

So, if you're legally deaf then it sounds like (pun intended) you should be prohibited from flying a drone anywhere near 400' since you won't hear the chopper (or a low flying plane) coming, right?

In terms of safety, that sounds wise. Just like you can't fly if you're blind.

 

[NormanNormal]

*Because I thought they had to stay above 400 feet so that by me obeying the height restriction I was at a safe height somewhere below the helicopter

*I was aware of the approaching helicopter. Unless a person has severe hearing loss it is impossible not too considering how low and loud it was. I did not lower the drone because I thought the helicopter had to stay above 400 feet

*The potential of a dangerous situation did not cross my mind because I assumed he was well above 400 feet because I thought they had to stay above 400 feet.

*Yes I understand that and it is why I was flying below 400 feet

Now I know 400 feet is meaningless when helicopters are in the air. I thought in a previous post in this thread I acknowledged I was in the wrong but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

I completely understand because as a new pilot I made the exact same assumptions. I had even researched FPV flying and drones reading forums for YEARS before I took my first flight and I never read a single thing that would indicate otherwise. Like you I had just read over and over again, under 400ft you are safe. 500ft and above are where the big boys play and to avoid airports. That is all. My recent low flying heli experience has completely changed that assumption just like yours. I think we need to educate people and newbies especially that helicopters DO NOT follow this rule and we need to stay vigilant at all times. Scared the **** out of me and it's been a game changer, thinking of what could have been. Even if there is no collision if you are spotted you could be reported and you will wind up on the news and get a knock on the door.

 

[BigAl07]

I'm late to the game here in terms of this thread but it simply emphasizes why there is a dire need for some level of Aviation and National Airspace training for any aircraft operation with an aircraft that "could" fly more than a couple hundred feet high and a couple of hundred feet from the ground.

We are supposed to be responsible Drone Operators have to come to the understanding that we are indeed playing in National Airspace and we must learn and fly by the rules of the NAS. As soon as we take off from terra firma we are aircraft and must integrate safely because if we screw up lives could be in danger. With that luxury is a responsibility to know NAS and understand how to know where we are and how to fly within that area safely. Anything less is complete negligence IMHO.

For the "helicopter pilot" who understands and minimizes the risk of the drone to heli impact and gives full permission to operate anywhere within his 5M proximity, he is unfortunately not accurate. Yes the main portion of the drone is very brittle plastic with not much mass or rigidity. The problem is the mass and energy contained within the LiPo battery. That could be a significant game changer should an impact happen especially if it strikes a critical component of the helicopter. I genuinely hope and pray we never find out the outcome in a real-world scenario but I'm gravely concerned it won't get quite the minuscule incident many anticipate.

For anyone reading this who doesn't fully understand the "Right of Way" on the air... any and all MANNED aircraft 100000% have the right of way all the time every time. No exceptions. Even if the manned aircraft is doing something outside of the regulations it is the full responsibility of the Drone Operator to do whatever is necessary to give right of way to the manned aircraft even if this means intentionally crashing (or performing CSC) your aircraft.

Lastly.... when a manned aircraft comes busting through your area below what you think are required altitudes you still have to give way completely. That aircraft could be on a legal mission, emergency mission, or worse be in some type of malfunction/emergency situation. There are MANY times/situations where a manned aircraft will be well under the 500'MIN and it's your job as a responsible drone operator to make sure you do not interfere with that aircraft in any way. If you're within a thousand feet of the manned aircraft you're WAY too close.

That's just my 2 cent.s

 

[Imabiggles]

[file]Chopper|none[/file]

I was at 390 feet. Who wins in court after the mid air collision? Aren't they supposed to stay above 400? Almost looks like he was below me.

you loose as a hobbyist, you have to yield to all manned craft. Helo's are not as altitude restricted as fixed wings. Also, you endangered the NAS, so its a go to jail offense. If they reported you, and the FAA looks into it - you are going to be out significant money in fines and defense. Since you hear helos coming from a long way off, not dropping down is rather ignorant of ya as there is no way it could have crept up on you.

 

[Imabiggles]

If I'm hovering my P3P in a non-restricted airspace at 399' and a helicopter suddenly swooshes in and collides with it --- it's an unfortunate accident but I am still not liable according to the law. Only if I make an intentional maneuver to move my UAV into it's flight path will I be in trouble.

That is simply a wrong statement.

 

[Duncan Campney]

e "Right of Way" on the air... any and all MANNED aircraft 100000% have the right of way all the time every time. No exceptions. Even if the manned aircraft is doing something outside of the regulations it is the full responsibility of the Drone Operator to do whatever is necessary to give right of way to the manned aircraft even if this means intentionally crashing (or performing CSC) your aircraft.

Lastly.... when a manned aircraft comes busting through your area below what you think are required altitudes you still have to give way completely. That aircraft could be on a legal mission, emergency mission, or worse be in some type of malfunction/emergency situation. There are MANY times/situations where a manned aircraft will be well under the 500'MIN and it's your job as a responsible drone operator to make sure you do not interfere with that aircraft in any way. If you're within a thousand feet of the manned aircraft you're WAY too close.

That's just my 2 cent.s

Bottom line, UAV's are THINGS. Very cool things, but things nonetheless. They are replaceable. People are not. As UAV operators, it is our responsibility to do whatever it takes not to endanger the lives of the people in manned aircraft.

I'd be bummed if I had to crash my P3 to get out of the way of a helicopter, but I would do it without hesitation. A human life is worth a whole lot more than the price of a fancy drone.

 

[Michael Humphrey]

Cops say man purposely flew drone near NC police helicopter
noob alert


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[dmagnus]

Sure. Flying LOS is safest. How about not flying? Wouldn't that be even more safe?

Allow me a tangent here: What about package delivery? This won't be line of sight. So do we just throw it out?

Somehow this emerging technology needs to be further introduced into the NAS. It won't be easy and it won't be convenient for everybody, but it needs to happen.

IMO flying out of LOS is irresponsible and will eventually be illegal. It just doesn't make sense to have untrained "pilots" flying the equivalent to IFR no matter the altitude (how do you know you are still under 400' when you get out of LOS?). Package delivery will never be allowed without first establishing routes. Those routes will be published for the aviation community. Piloted aircraft will be responsible for avoiding those routes. That is the kind of introduction to the NAS that this emerging technology will need to get. Also, pilots will need to be trained that venturing under 500', whether legal or not, will now be at their own risk.
By the way, the latest issue of AOPA Pilot, the official organ of the Aircraft Owner's and Pilots Association has a nice article about this very subject. They are very supportive of sUAS and are very willing to work with all parties to make the airspace safe for all.
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2016/April/Pilot/safety

 

[dmagnus]

Does anybody know how to find out about where "routes ...specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA" might be located? Is there some kind of master map somewhere online?

Helicopter Route Charts
Not very many, only the largest cities. I have an unofficial route close to my house, but you can hear them coming for miles...

 

[Air Ontario]

I have had them barely 150' around my property and trees. Much lower over field and fence line.

After investigating such low flights, they (MNR) were doing moose surveys and actually opened a season following the survey.

 

[dmagnus]

So, if you're legally deaf then it sounds like (pun intended) you should be prohibited from flying a drone anywhere near 400' since you won't hear the chopper (or a low flying plane) coming, right?

I am deaf in one ear. As a Private Pilot, I have had to carry a Certificate of Demonstrated Ability for the 48 years I have been a pilot. So, Yes, you eventually will probably be required to have a spotter if you are deaf and want to fly your UAS in the NAS. In the mean time, it would probably be irresponsible to do so without a spotter, or "listener".