Arrested for flying PV in a deserted park?

[havasuphoto]

Just to be sure of my answer I looked up the case which was United States v. Causby 328 U.S. 256

The court's decision, authored by Justice William O. Douglas, could have resolved the case on a narrow ground by simply holding that there was a taking of land because the government's flights affected the land. Justice Douglas did reach that conclusion, but then he went much further and opined on what airspace landowners do and do not own. He wrote that "if the landowner is to have full enjoyment of the land, he must have exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere. Otherwise buildings could not be erected, trees could not be planted, and even fences could not be run" . . . Thus, a landowner "owns at least as much of the space above the ground as he can occupy or use in connection with the land," and invasions of that airspace "are in the same category as invasions of the surface."

Short answer, in that case the hard limit was set at 80 feet and anything below that was off limits.

Correct-and good searching
The key wording is "control". This is akin to you living next door to someone, and you want an extension on your house-so you extend the top floor of your house over the property lines of the adjacent property. The neighbor no longer has "control" over that piece of sky, that used to belong to him, and you would be in violation of the Law.

BUT, by flying your Phantom around in that airspace beyond which a property owner could reasonably control, you are well within your rights to do so.

 

[peter nap]

Thanks but I can't take much credit. I'm a professional videographer, farmer and hunter and I have a good lawyer.
He researched it for me in case PETA sent a few targets my way :lol:

This does pose another question though. Does the FAA have the authority to regulate professional aerial videos in private airspace ??????????

 

[havasuphoto]

Thanks but I can't take much credit. I'm a professional videographer, farmer and hunter and I have a good lawyer.
He researched it for me in case PETA sent a few targets my way :lol:

This does pose another question though. Does the FAA have the authority to regulate professional aerial videos in private airspace ??????????

"Private Airspace" only exists from the ground to about 80 feet +/-. All other airspace is public, with the exception of within 60nm of Washington DC(DC FRZ), and a few other places, in which all aircraft operations are either prohibited, or require special training and permission to enter.
As I said in another thread-UAV pilots should avail themselves of the current TFR's(temporary flight restrictions), posses a current Sectional Chart for the area they which to operate in, and, use plain old common sense.

While you may have the "right" to fly your Phantom over my property. I also have the right to shoot it down with a shotgun. Think about that......if you're out in the country, and I just happen to be "hunting"(with a license)-your Phantom whizzing by might look like a bird too me...and with 1 shot-it's no more Phantom.

So, remember-while you may have the "law on your side".....property owners and even hunters, have their rights too.

 

[peter nap]

Thanks but I can't take much credit. I'm a professional videographer, farmer and hunter and I have a good lawyer.
He researched it for me in case PETA sent a few targets my way :lol:

This does pose another question though. Does the FAA have the authority to regulate professional aerial videos in private airspace ??????????

"Private Airspace" only exists from the ground to about 80 feet +/-. All other airspace is public, with the exception of within 60nm of Washington DC(DC FRZ), and a few other places, in which all aircraft operations are either prohibited, or require special training and permission to enter.
As I said in another thread-UAV pilots should avail themselves of the current TFR's(temporary flight restrictions), posses a current Sectional Chart for the area they which to operate in, and, use plain old common sense.

While you may have the "right" to fly your Phantom over my property. I also have the right to shoot it down with a shotgun. Think about that......if you're out in the country, and I just happen to be "hunting"(with a license)-your Phantom whizzing by might look like a bird too me...and with 1 shot-it's no more Phantom.

So, remember-while you may have the "law on your side".....property owners and even hunters, have their rights too.

You misunderstood. I AM one of those hunters that will shoot PETA Drones.

That wasn't my question though. FAA Regulations now, in theory seem to regulate all for pay video's taken from Drones. That will get settled in the current case I expect.
Do they have the authority to regulate for pay video's below 80 feet though.

For instance....I'm hired by a Realtor to video property and I stay within the bounds of that property below 80 feet. Am I subject to penalties by the FAA.

It's really a subjective question at this point because I don't think it's been addressed in the courts. It does shed a little light on why there have not been mass prosecutions by the FAA though.

 

[havasuphoto]

LOL.....good question.
The Notice of Proposed Rule Making that I've seen, doesn't seem to address anything until 2015. While they may have some recommendations at this point, I'm not sure where they will go.
The "elephant in the room" is, the FAA has no means to certify UAV's. So, if they can't certify the aircraft you're flying-how can they regulate you flying it??? Answer-they can't.

In my case-I retired from flying helicopters after 23 years and over 9000 accident free hours. So, I'm "certified"...although my friends think I'm also "certifiable". I know, or at least I used to know, some POI's at my local FSDO(Flight Standards District Office). And, the helicopter POI's that I know, would probably hang up on me, the second I started asking questions about commercial operations of UAV's. They're so buried with Helicopter Stuff-that they turn a blind eye to UAV's.

Don't ask-Don't tell.

Also-for those looking into Commercial Operations; you better look into an Insurance Policy for Liability and Property Damage-unless you have deep pockets. Things can and will go wrong.
I know when I finally get enough "skill", that I will be required to show proof of that insurance, before stepping foot onto a "Set", with my drone, reporting for duty.
I have yet to get a quote-but I'm sure it's not going to be cheap. It's the same type of insurance we used to have to carry when filming with Helicopters-and was usually just for the one or two days they used the aircraft on set. And it was expensive back then!!!

So-with looming possible licensing requirements for the operator, and the requisite insurance needed to conduct commercial operations-you better get the money/jobs done quick!!

And like I've said before-Use Common Sense!!!! Don't fly over people!!!! Stay away from large groups of people, and events!!!
The quickest way to "fast-track" legislation through the FAA, is for someone to get injured by one of these.....and, if it happens at a large event, where everyone has a video smartphone, you will make the news-and not in a good way.

Gonna have to look into "stealth paint", and "quiet mode" engines

 

[jimre]

"Private Airspace" only exists from the ground to about 80 feet +/-. All other airspace is public, with the exception of within 60nm of Washington DC(DC FRZ), and a few other places, ...

Hmmm... I don't think my Phantom pilot skills are accurate enough to navigate to within 60 nano-meters ;-)

 

[peter nap]

We're entering an interesting era havasuphoto...
I'm getting old. I've been through film, digital, SD to HD, to 4K...from cutting room to computer and now to low cost aerial. :?

 

[havasuphoto]

We're entering an interesting era havasuphoto...
I'm getting old. I've been through film, digital, SD to HD, to 4K...from cutting room to computer and now to low cost aerial. :?

OT
Me too.....I retired 5 years ago. And, have always been a hobbyist in Photography and Video. Had my own darkroom, and would go through reels of 35mm film, and Dektol film developer. Then came color and Cibachrome($$$$-was using 4X5 color positives).

I've flown real helicopters for a few productions, but primarily I flew for EMS(life-flight), and out in the Gulf.

Nm=Nautical Miles......
And, the Washington DC FRZ does not include certain airspace below 700 or 1200 feet above ground.
My point was; you're not going to be able to pull your Phantom out, at the Capitol Mall, and just fly around. You may do it once.....but, me thinks they will confiscate your Phantom, and lock you up for the night. That one is guaranteed to get you arrested.

And, if/when you factor in the Insurance-it won't be low cost aerial anymore. But, it will still be cheaper than having a real helicopter. There are just some shots a real helicopter can't get........so, there is still room for both in a production.

And, the "big-boys" with their Oct-copters are still safe too. We can't carry a Red One....they can. But, those rigs start at 10 grand, and go up. The Red One camera, just to rent, with a few lenses and associated equipment, is $1000/day!!! That's just 1 camera, and some lenses and a few batteries. No operator....no dolly, no gimbal.

But, there are Production Companies out there, looking to cut costs. And the Phantom/Go Pro 3 fits nicely, for certain situations.

OT
I found out Today, on my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th flight, that in gusting winds(10mph gusting to 20mph), the Phantom is a "no go".
Even with the Zenmous Gimbal/Gyro, GPS, etc....it still can't compensate for the mechanical turbulence coming off my house, the neighbors house, etc. It was a lot of throttle and yaw work to keep the aircraft relatively stable. I still suck at flying this thing-and have only flown it in my backyard so far-so I haven't even flown it far enough away where I can use IOC or CL.

Sorry, never mind the OT stuff

The problem we encounter is that a cop can arrest you for any reason at anytime with little or no repercussions. Especially, if you mouth off to the security guard or park worker and they are "buddies" . Whet Ive been doing is trying to takeoff from areas away from the officials eye or anyones eye and still gives me a good view of the bird. If I get caught, I play dumb be nice pack it up explain what she is which usually breaks the ice. I than fly at a different location dor awhile before I make my inevitable return

Bull shXt!!! I used to be one-before I started my flying career-and that statement is just plain false.
IF, you get arrested for basically doing nothing-call the ACLU!! Or, find an Attorney, and sue them into the next Century.
You have Rights!!! But, you need to learn them. Otherwise, you can and will be bullied by over-paid security guards.

You're smart in just doing your own thing, out of the way of everyone else. That's what I'm doing right now, by flying in my backyard.