Arrested for flying PV in a deserted park?

[Tromac]

That sounds utterly ridiculous and a case of those workers having no clue. I would however suggest you contact your county office (if there is such a thing) or whoever manages the ordinances there and ask to speak to someone who can advise you of any restrictions.

 

[Adam]

I've seen signs in my area at parks that may say "No R/C Aircraft". I'd check your local ordinances but no reason to make enemies of our hobby, I wouldn't force the issue. Go find somewhere else to fly. I would find a local R/C club - those guys will know exactly where you should and shouldn't be flying. A quick Google search found these guys in Northern New Jersey.

http://www.toponewjersey.org/

 

[PAValentine]

That's ridiculous!!!
Most parks have ordinances against 'motorized vehicles', but this would be stretching the point pretty far I would think!
I'd contact the county offices and inquire about an ordinance that would prohibit flying a model helicopter!
I have a city park right behind my home where I fly mine, so I hope I never have to face a similar situation!

 

[kenskid]

Same issue here in Louisiana. There is one park nearby that simply will not allow any RC aircraft at all. They can't state the ordinance and I can't find it. I still try once or twice a year just to see if they still chase me out...and they do. This is not a small local "down the block" park but a 155 acre area with lagoons for canoes and peddle boats. The park is maintained by adding a few dollars to my monthly water bill. While I should be able to fly there, I don't bother. I don't need the headache.

On the other hand, I guess I can understand why they don't want RC flyers around. I guess one or two of us a day would be ok but I guess 20 or 30 people flying all sorts of aircraft...MAY...be a little too much for them to worry about.

Guys I have a PV and am new to RC. I live in congested Northern NJ and I like to fly at a local county park early morning or nite when no people are around. I do not like to fly over cars and people. Not sure the law but I rather be in the safe side. My problem is the fockhead park workers and at night time security guards chase me and threaten to call the sheriffs. There are no people, no signs saying not to fly. They just say there is a county ordinance. When I ask for the number or name if it they can not produce and I look online u see nothing. What are our rights to fly? It's a county park don't we have a right?? I hate to be stuck flying over cemeteries and such it's a bummer. I appreciate any opinion or advice.

 

[Hiway]

I'll chime in here... and I have to say adam is on target with my personal experiences.

I live directly beside a very historic national park and cemetery- in fact, it is possibly the most photographed, and most bucolic piece of parkland the entire portion of the state has to offer- and it's significance in American history is undeniable.

Rather than just make assumptions, and plan on begging forgiveness instead of asking permission, I made a formal visit to the ranger's office, and spoke with the hmfic. I was told in no uncertain terms that what I wanted to do was formally against the rules- and they were amateur shutter bugs themselves and had recently looked into some similar plans, so the word was fresh from higher up.

Now, they did not need to do the next thing, which was gently imply that if I happened to know anyone with property adjacent to the park, then I could always fly from there, and there happens to be a lot of adjacent, privately owned land as it is all farm fields surrounding the specific areas of photographic interest.

I can say that I have blurred the line, and broken it over time, and there have been no repercussions or even a hard look. I am sure that should ever I do something foolish, or unsafe, or disrespectful, then I will have a hammer come down. I am grateful for the long leash I am currently given.

The reason I was able to pull this off- and if I can get a major upcoming yearly event, as well as some other footage before, and if the worse should happen, well, that is forever, and NOBODY has footage like I have from such awesome low altitude angles of much of this area- a handful of panoramas and pics from airplanes and helicopters- real ones, and that is it. I would have a major score for my personal collection. Back to my point- the reason I was able to do all of this was my approach- I was respectful, let them know who I was, and that I understood that there could be boundaries, and that I wouldn't take advantage of any courtesy shown me in any blatant fashion that would directly reflect on them, and their job and responsibility- you see, that is what matters- covering your ***... and that is what is paramount in those ranger's minds- they cannot be perceived as allowing anything unsafe on park property. We need to truly acknowledge that.

The old saying, "You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar" will always hold true.

 

[FASTFJR]

I'll chime in here... and I have to say adam is on target with my personal experiences.

I live directly beside a very historic national park and cemetery- in fact, it is possibly the most photographed, and most bucolic piece of parkland the entire portion of the state has to offer- and it's significance in American history is undeniable.

Rather than just make assumptions, and plan on begging forgiveness instead of asking permission, I made a formal visit to the ranger's office, and spoke with the hmfic. I was told in no uncertain terms that what I wanted to do was formally against the rules- and they were amateur shutter bugs themselves and had recently looked into some similar plans, so the word was fresh from higher up.

Now, they did not need to do the next thing, which was gently imply that if I happened to know anyone with property adjacent to the park, then I could always fly from there, and there happens to be a lot of adjacent, privately owned land as it is all farm fields surrounding the specific areas of photographic interest.

I can say that I have blurred the line, and broken it over time, and there have been no repercussions or even a hard look. I am sure that should ever I do something foolish, or unsafe, or disrespectful, then I will have a hammer come down. I am grateful for the long leash I am currently given.

The reason I was able to pull this off- and if I can get a major upcoming yearly event, as well as some other footage before, and if the worse should happen, well, that is forever, and NOBODY has footage like I have from such awesome low altitude angles of much of this area- a handful of panoramas and pics from airplanes and helicopters- real ones, and that is it. I would have a major score for my personal collection. Back to my point- the reason I was able to do all of this was my approach- I was respectful, let them know who I was, and that I understood that there could be boundaries, and that I wouldn't take advantage of any courtesy shown me in any blatant fashion that would directly reflect on them, and their job and responsibility- you see, that is what matters- covering your ***... and that is what is paramount in those ranger's minds- they cannot be perceived as allowing anything unsafe on park property. We need to truly acknowledge that.

The old saying, "You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar" will always hold true.

Gettysburg?

 

[myvrodrocks]

Well if they threatened to call the Sherriff, I'd start there. If the Sherriff doesn't care than neither would I. But if he can arrest you then he will also know why.

 

[eckoner]

I have been threatened in Beverly Hills. They say i cant fly in the city at all so i contested and went the the BH City Hall to find all city ordanances and it actually did clearly state

"No motorized craft in the park at anytime" so thats a big umbrella that gives any bad person with authority the right to exercise enforcement how ever that person see's fit.

However you have to keep in mind anytime you are on county, city, state, federal, or private ....they can basically say you cant breathe thru your nose while on this property and if you do i can legally ask you to leave!

yes if you are not clearly on public property you can be told not to fly and if you do you can be arrested for tresspassing.

 

[Hiway]

...

Gettysburg?

Close- try a little further south of there- but you are on the right track.

 

[Hiway]

....

yes if you are not clearly on public property you can be told not to fly and if you do you can be arrested for tresspassing.

The irony here is- park lands are public property... like, it was ok for all the black friday shoppers to camp out along malwart's and other purveyors of fine plastic crap sidewalks and parking lots when they were going to spend that almighty dollar, or if you occupy a city or state park to support the war effort or acknowledging some religious event- but if you are protesting, then that is a no-no.

So, offer to give free video at the next major veterans parade or suggest to the clergy in charge of the praise the lord day thing that aerial pics would really go a long way to boosting his congregation's redeeming qualities in the eyes of gawd...

...but I digress and this is a r/c forum- not a political wonkdom. Sorry about that.

*gently tucks soapbox back under the table*

 

[Ksc]

In Florida, you have to actually break a law to be arrested. Breaking an ordinance ends up getting you fined or cited (like a speeding ticket). The downside is that a very common "easy arrest" technique for security guards (who otherwise have no power) is to ask you to leave and if you say no, they can call the cops and say you are trespassing (which is a crime you can be arrested for). In my experience, a cop normally would rather tell you to leave than arrest you. They don't want to deal with paperwork and court over something so stupid. If you argue back, then they can get you for more.

 

[Hiway]

Can you post your Gettysburg videos? Love to see the Pennsylvannia Memorial and little roundtop at sunset.

If you are posting to me- I am not in G-burg... although it is only a hoot and a holler away.

I am located in Sharpsburg- beside the Antietam Battlefield- sight of the single most bloody day in American history.

Tomorrow is the yearly Illumination- where an illuminary is placed for every fallen soldier- all 23,110, and they line up for miles to do the slow ride through the park.

Now... what better to film that with than an aerial multicopter? Imagine the gentle rolling hills as the sun dips below the horizon and all those candles evenly spaced across the aceldama... powerful stuff- very humbling.

If anyone wants to join me- shoot a pm.

 

[gunslinger]

Guys I have a PV and am new to RC. I live in congested Northern NJ and I like to fly at a local county park early morning or nite when no people are around. I do not like to fly over cars and people. Not sure the law but I rather be in the safe side. My problem is the fockhead park workers and at night time security guards chase me and threaten to call the sheriffs. There are no people, no signs saying not to fly. They just say there is a county ordinance. When I ask for the number or name if it they can not produce and I look online u see nothing. What are our rights to fly? It's a county park don't we have a right?? I hate to be stuck flying over cemeteries and such it's a bummer. I appreciate any opinion or advice.

Khakis... with all due respect. Are you sure they weren't hassling you simply because they know you? :lol:

JK... I simply couldn't resist...

-slinger

 

[JustJames]

I was thinking the same thing...... :lol: :lol:

 

[Hiway]

Hiway...thats cool. Remember to shoot in Atti mode only, gps will be junk footage. Can you post it here? Thanks mate

I have shot pretty decent footage in gps mode too- when there was no wind and as long as I keep forward, side, or rearward momentum and do not change direction abruptly.

I am a bit scared to fly it in atti mode at night though- I am still very green on these multiprops... and I have practically no flying experience- last thing I had in the air was a Merlin (plane) and one of those foam 2 channel gliders with a prop... forget what it's called- easy as pie to fly though.

I would like an experienced pilot to hang with for a bit to get some tricks and tips... I learn best from watching and imitating.

As for posting up pics here... I am making a video of this event- and I will be happy to share it with everyone once it is done- but I don't post raw footage except for crashes, :mrgreen:

 

[Rigger609]

Looking forward to see that video. Hope the weather is good. Looks like nasty weather is heading up the East coast.

Fly safe

 

[CarpelDMK]

I also live in NJ and got the same thing.

My second flight, in Johnson park, central NJ - figured it would be nice with a river running next to it.

In the end of the video you can see the park ranger come to boot me from the park.

Just like the OP - the park was comepletely empty. The only 2 fools around were my brother and I.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVvBrV0x7hI

 

[havasuphoto]

Here is my take on the "law"; the only Agency that can regulate the airspace above any property/park, is the FAA.
Cities/Counties/Parks Service, cannot legislate or create laws preventing you from flying your UAV in it's airspace-only the FAA can do that.
They can, however, prevent you from entering the property on foot with the UAV. BUT, if you park outside the park, and are on Public Property-you can fly whatever you want, wherever you want. The Park Ranger does NOT have the authority to boot you from the Park. Ask him to produce a copy of the law/regulations that give him that authority.

However-it's always a good idea to check the FAA's website for "Temporary Flight Restrictions" in the area you want to fly.
Also-you should comply with current Federal Air Regulations, and, not go above 400 feet.

There will eventually be someone arrested for this. AND, that person should immediately contact the ACLU. Because your rights are being violated.
I'll repeat; the ONLY Agency that can Legislate the air above the ground, is the FAA-the end!!

I flew helicopters for over 20 years, and have a thorough understanding of the Federal Air Regulations. And, the same regulations apply to me when flying a "real helicopter". The air over your property, is not yours, and it's not Private. So, I can legally fly over your property, as long as my altitude complies with the applicable Federal Air Regulations.

Now, if I land on your Private Property-and it's not an Emergency, I'm trespassing.

But, I get all "Glen Beck", when people start talking about losing their Rights. Parks cannot ban UAV's!!! They don't have the authority!!

I'm still "new". But, I plan on flying my Phantom pretty much wherever I want. I won't be flying over people.....and I won't be endangering anyone. Remember-the Phantom at max weight, is 2.6 lbs!! If it's falling from 400 feet, and it hits someone, that's gonna leave a mark.

So, fly safe...and keep in mind what you are flying over.

 

[peter nap]

Here is my take on the "law"; the only Agency that can regulate the airspace above any property/park, is the FAA.
Cities/Counties/Parks Service, cannot legislate or create laws preventing you from flying your UAV in it's airspace-only the FAA can do that.
They can, however, prevent you from entering the property on foot with the UAV. BUT, if you park outside the park, and are on Public Property-you can fly whatever you want, wherever you want. The Park Ranger does NOT have the authority to boot you from the Park. Ask him to produce a copy of the law/regulations that give him that authority.

However-it's always a good idea to check the FAA's website for "Temporary Flight Restrictions" in the area you want to fly.
Also-you should comply with current Federal Air Regulations, and, not go above 400 feet.

There will eventually be someone arrested for this. AND, that person should immediately contact the ACLU. Because your rights are being violated.
I'll repeat; the ONLY Agency that can Legislate the air above the ground, is the FAA-the end!!

I flew helicopters for over 20 years, and have a thorough understanding of the Federal Air Regulations. And, the same regulations apply to me when flying a "real helicopter". The air over your property, is not yours, and it's not Private. So, I can legally fly over your property, as long as my altitude complies with the applicable Federal Air Regulations.

Now, if I land on your Private Property-and it's not an Emergency, I'm trespassing.

But, I get all "Glen Beck", when people start talking about losing their Rights. Parks cannot ban UAV's!!! They don't have the authority!!

I'm still "new". But, I plan on flying my Phantom pretty much wherever I want. I won't be flying over people.....and I won't be endangering anyone. Remember-the Phantom at max weight, is 2.6 lbs!! If it's falling from 400 feet, and it hits someone, that's gonna leave a mark.

So, fly safe...and keep in mind what you are flying over.

No, that's not even close to true.

In the beginning, landowners owned from the center of the earth to the heavens.

After aircraft were invented, conflicts and trespass claims started showing up. The Supreme court took the issue up in 1946 (+-From Memory) and decided a land owner only had control over airspace to a height he could reasonably use.

They never set hard limits on that height though so it can vary from location to location.
500 feet has become the accepted limit a landowner can control his airspace but depending on the circumstances, it can go much lower.

So the answer is....if you're over 500 feet you're in good shape except for FFA recommendations you not exceed 400...at 400 you're still in pretty safe territory. but if you're lower, you may end up telling it to the judge.

Best to stay away from property you're told to stay off of.

 

[peter nap]

Just to be sure of my answer I looked up the case which was United States v. Causby 328 U.S. 256

The court's decision, authored by Justice William O. Douglas, could have resolved the case on a narrow ground by simply holding that there was a taking of land because the government's flights affected the land. Justice Douglas did reach that conclusion, but then he went much further and opined on what airspace landowners do and do not own. He wrote that "if the landowner is to have full enjoyment of the land, he must have exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere. Otherwise buildings could not be erected, trees could not be planted, and even fences could not be run" . . . Thus, a landowner "owns at least as much of the space above the ground as he can occupy or use in connection with the land," and invasions of that airspace "are in the same category as invasions of the surface."

Short answer, in that case the hard limit was set at 80 feet and anything below that was off limits.